So resistence at $20 held and we have now broken to the low side.  This isn't too surprising to anyone that wasn't pumping the bejesus out of bitcoin value for the last week.

To all the pumpers, namely the "buy in now before we skyrocket again!" crowd... what say you in regards to this latest action?

Not going to happen.

The Bitcoin economic model virtually ensures that the exchange rate with regulated currencies will remain unstable. There will continue to be pain for the Bitcoin economy as long as as the goods and services that are paid for in Bitcoin are actually priced as a proxy for the Dollar. This pain will eventually ensure that Bitcoin operates as a seperate economy, not a parallel economy. Until people can pay for their daily needs priced in Bitcoin It will take ticker watching to make sure you are making the best advantage of your available capital. And you can actually make bank by doing that... It's called arbitrage.

But in order for it to get any better those that wish to be paid in Bitcoin need to actually price things in Bitcoin, that means denominating accounting spreadsheets, valuing inventory, pricing inputs, et cetera—in Bitcoin. The calculus for your ROI looks completely different that way, and if you don't do it you will loose money.

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Thanks for the reply, so about $1 per minute - or card, could you let me know what you would say was the minimum amount of time needed for just a quick try out consultation as requested, many thanks - I'm assuming you're on EST or something

The reason why it will cause loss of interest is that mining is not profitable anymore. I think this is a big part of the whole bitcoin craze. It will still have some interest, but it will lose alot.

Yes It is very interesting times, I can't help  but keep checking the price of the bitcoin. I must admit, part of me wants it to go lower because I missed the boat on this one.

With the current drop into the $15 range, and nobody seems to want to pick it back up to $20. I think most people will not even take the risk at buying it at these lower prices with the hope it will bounce back up to its $20 dollar support.

Someone must have kept it inflated at the $20 dollar level. I have no idea why someone has done that and spent all the money keeping it at that level. I knew that would not hold as nobody has that deep pockets.

A fair and stable price level would be around $8.00.

I am surprised the forum is pretty silent about this latest price drop. This signals many things coming to and end especially the mining. This whole thing may lose much interest soon.

I'm gonna respond to all your points here:

1. MtGox (Gox) barely has a page structure to begin with, the site is very simple with only a few links on the left. Once you login to TradeHill (TH) the site is wildly different than Gox
2. Not sure of this, however that dosent really make a difference. Most sites copy their competitors information
3. Being polished has nothing to do with being set up out of nowhere. TH has a team of excellent programmers based here in the United States.
4. Can't really answer this, they are a much smaller site although the second largest exchange.
5. Thats what made them grow. Its a pretty good marketing strategy actually.
6. I answered this above ^. They are growing fast because they have a good, American based team, they answer CS issues quickly, they have a nice site, and good business ethics. I think they will surpass Japanese based Gox in a few months forsure.

I must point out that I know the TradeHill team personally so my response is a tad biased towards them. My point being, I trust TradeHill more than Gox. The only reason we all use Gox is because they were the first ones.

Yes it is finally coming down. It does not make sense at $20. There is no value currenctly in owning this currency other than the long term potential if it does ever make a valid currency.

If you are willing to wait some years and hold it as an investment, it should be priced less than $10 dollars because of the high risk of it failing.

Who ever pays $20 or higher now as a long term investment is way overpaying because of all the risk.

It should keep falling down to less than $10.

Or was she pushed?

I have given it some thought, about suggestions on handling illegal drug transactions in an ethical and moral fashion sans rule of law.  I conclude that SR or anyone else for that matter, should follow standard harm-reduction principles as much as possible. 

I think the first priority should be to design and implement an age-verify system.  An unrelated 3rd party could be contracted to, given a name, date and place of birth, use public records to verify the buyer's age then return a special key to the buyer.  The seller can then request that key as needed, and use it in a query on the 3rd party's server to return an accept or reject directive.

I guess it could not be mandatory, but perhaps it could be rewarded by positive reputation points for sellers who require age-verify.  I suppose too that once age-verify has been established true, the same seller and buyer would not need to repeat the process so it would only impact the first transaction.

Sellers or SR or both should make the following absolutely clear to all buyers of hard drugs:

• The safest drug use is no use.
• Never take a drug you do not completely understand.
• Do not inject or consume any narcotic alone, if possible have a non-user by your side.
• Never mix alcohol use and narcotics.
• Always use a new, sterile rig when injecting.
• Follow appropriate cleaning (sterile pads) of the injection site prior to injection.
• If you feel you need help dealing with drug addiction call this help line (research a service)

There are additional guidelines that would be more appropriate for other substances that should also be considered.  And of course any manufacturers and pharmaceutical information, instructions, pamphlets, or packing material should be included in every order of this sort.

I don't think BitCoin won't be used for that. Since BitCoin is not suited for micro-transactions and will be quite expensive at least I would never pay BitCoin to join some forum. Unless it was a really good one, but I have not seen a forum yet worth paying cash to join.

The technology could be used for this, but it would be more reasonable to create new low difficulty blockchains for it then to use the BitCoin currency...


Anything can substituted or the demand for its intrinsic use could vanish. Actually it is likely that the non-monetary use of a commodity money will be substituted quite fast, cause the commodity will be too expensive to use for non-monetary purposes once its monetary utility takes off. This applies to precious metal and everything that could be money.

This is in no way to specific to BitCoin. Shit you own can become worthless in the market, that is just something you have to live with...

The network benefits inherit in an established medium of exchange will however work as a very strong counter to this making it extremely unlikely that a shift away from it would happen at all or if it does happen it will be slow and gradual...

Vendors accepting bitcoin would be the floodgate....

Interesting video, but a lot of questions. I think you could be a little more clearer.  But not bad. Yes if Bitcoin value never changes, then the market place would do well, but the exchange would collapse. People become interest in a product because of the chance to make a profit. Not so much to hide money.

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Although the stability thing kind of does matter - currently, you see places tying payments to x dollars worth of BTC, using MTgox exchange rates!

I guess it's more of a milestone once peopel stop pricing against dollar though?

Ok, that makes sense. I might on Monday since I'm not at my place right now.

Someone really needs to make a prediction market website, so you can create predictions about anything, with an expiration date, and these act like shares that people can buy/sell.

I'm a small business owner myself (programming/design/hosting), and I considered accepting bitcoins for services.  I no longer consider it a viable option in the least.

Why?

Because for all the ephemeral philosophical jesting about decentralized money and how we're all paving the way to a grand and glorious future of Utopic, regulation free financial anarchy, the fact is it makes ZERO business sense to accept bitcoins.

It's a fools errand to accept a form of currency that can render your services a very expensive favor.

I currently charge a base rate of $162/hr. with additional compensation based on project scope. If I began accepting bitcoins and doing even a fraction of business in them (say 10%), then month to month my actual income could have such a wide variance as to make my life a living hell of watching market tickers and having to waste my time day trading to ensure I got fair compensation for my work.

As far as any real and profitable businesses are concerned, accepting bitcoin is an idiotic proposal, UNLESS the owner of that business is merely speculating on future returns.

My bet is that businesses aren't going to gamble with their profits on the feel good nature of crypto-currency's war on the evil fiats of the world...

Paypal fees aren't that bad...hell, neither are credit card fees, really.  Certainly not when compared with BTC lol.

"Paypal without the fees!"

HAHAHA...

Really guys, these drastic measures weren't made because of some random trolls.  I have been on this forum non-stop for the last 10 hours, and even at the peak of trolls, there were only 3-4 active threads with porrly reasoned arguments going on.

The reason for these drastic measures, silencing new accounts, is because of people like me who came here and spoke honest trueth, well reasoned logic, and mental discipline to examining not only the bitcoin market, but the nature of bitcoin itself.

And you're going to see a lot more of it, this was just a temporary measure so they can try to get people to calm down and stop selling off so many BTC.

Many of us Austrian econ types have been concerned about Bitcoin as it relates to the regression theorem. Money is supposed to emerge from its "use value" toward a "trade value". Gold is useful for decoration and other purposes, beyond being a money. But, what is Bitcoin useful for beyond its use as money?  If it's only useful as money, can it really be a money?

Well, consider the following: Bitcoin is also a service. With the Bitcoin software, you can send a payment to another person, free of charge (almost). In the normal economy, other companies provide similar services (paypal, western union, bank transfers, etc.). Sending money from one person to another is indeed a demanded service.

So perhaps Bitcoin's "use value" comes in full or in part from this ability it bestows to send money, or value, or units of account, across distances securely. In this way it offers a substitute service to the paypals of the world. From this "use value," the regression theorem is perhaps satisfied, is it not?  And perhaps many people don't initially see this, because "Bitcoin" is both a money and a software service, and the fact that both components share the same name obscures the service of Bitcoin behind the monetary unit of Bitcoins.

Gold's use value is primarily as a decorative good. Bitcoin's use value is primarily as a transfer service. Bitcoin as a transfer service then allows the open market to value the units for this transfer... and then the price on day 1 is based on the price on day -1, etc etc.

Thoughts?