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81  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched on: December 31, 2014, 08:29:02 PM
So was PTS written from scratch by i3?

PTS was created and released by FreeTrade, who used the momentum algo used earlier in his own MemoryCoin. He was awarded a bounty by I3 to do that.

I'm curious as to how easy it was for them to simply switch it over to DPoS. And I also wonder how viable doing that would be for existing PoW currencies.

It was not a fork, it was a snapshot and a new genesis block was initialized from that. The problem arises, as I3 found out after the merger/inflation (or whatever term alphaBar prefers), that the chain lives on as long as there are miners.

In principle every coin can be converted, the trick lies in convincing the exchanges and merchants (if any) to switch over.

It sounds like in this case some people have a large amount of PTS or something and want to get whatever they can out of it.

Mostly correct, the effort was put in by some of the big holders to squeeze out as much value as possible.
Having said that, I know at least one individual who was attracted to the deflationary aspect.
82  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 31, 2014, 08:16:25 PM
An individual can create multiple delegates and get stakeholders to approve them via deception.  This gives the illusion that there are 101 unique delegates when in reality many delegates are in fact one individual.  When you consider that multiple individuals could collude to create these faux delegates, it becomes obvious that gaining control over 51% of the delegates would not be that difficult.[/b]

Certainly more difficult than one individual or group running several pools and getting control over 51% hashrate. Imagine having around 10 delegates, imagine that the delegates have power proportional to the votes, imagine that 2-3 of the top voted delegates have control due to the proportionality factor - well, you get Bitcoin.

DPoS concedes that some degree of gravitating towards a few concentrated points is always going to happen, as was clear in the Ghash success, and later seen in NXT forging pools too. It attempts to regulate this behaviour by making it inbuilt in the protocol itself and trying to make sure that there is no more centralization than is necessary.
83  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 31, 2014, 07:01:40 PM
Bitcoin is very hard to upgrade but you can hold bitcoin on a DPOS (delegated proof of stake) chain on BitShares as bitBTC and earn interest.  So individuals can choose to upgrade but the network itself can't.

There is no need to 'upgrade' Bitcoin now as such. A non-PoW complement to Bitcoin already exists in BitBTC, though granted at this particular moment the peg is not holding too well (it needs more volume). It can be used as BTC with bells and whistles and will also allow users to see how a non-PoW option works.

I eventually see Bitcoin moving on to a different scheme, whether its completely non-PoW or partly PoW. I expect Bitcoin holders to be not too happy in the future when they realize that they may not need to pay this much to secure the network thus reducing inflation.
84  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 31, 2014, 02:42:40 PM
As far as attacking, yes you do need some stake at least initially to attack a poS coin, so it's not truly free.  probably you would need something on the order of a 1% stake.  But on the other hand, it doesn't necessarily mean poS will work at larger scales; many have serious concerns about the security model.  You are right that the concerns are theoretical as of now.

It would need significantly more than 1% stake. Again, I am thinking in terms of DPoS, as I don't have a thorough knowledge of the alternatives.

Whether the security remains as robust with scaling remains to be seen, but that is only possible when it gets big. I haven't seen any good theoretical attack vectors which may compromise it on a bigger scale. In case it does, the developers have to look at improving the solution, like DPoS itself was an evolution through a series of steps.
85  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Governor of the central bank of India is speaking positively on Bitcoin on: December 31, 2014, 02:30:15 PM
People clutching at straws hoping Indians will buy up and increase prices. I remember when the Chinese bubble popped there were loads in the Speculation area who were convinced that the gullible Indians will buy up Bitcoin like crazy and make them rich. Somebody in particluar named Bitchick Husband (or something like that that) was absolutely convinced and put up bullet points explaining how India can not not buy up Bitcoins Grin
86  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: BitShares PTS upgrade to DPoS is launched on: December 31, 2014, 01:44:17 PM
Was AGS or PTS a regular mined PoW Bitcoin fork at some point?

AGS was never liquid, PTS was a PoW coin with momentum algo which favoured CPU mining. After BTS inflated and gave away 7% to PTS and announced that any commitment to PTS is over, the price and consequently the hashrate dropped and the coin was almost dead.

alphaBar with support of some PTS holders decided to release a DPoS version of PTS with a snapshot taken on 14th Dec. Some exchanges like Bter accepted this alphaBar PTS as the 'real' PTS and keeps trading it, others like Btc38 considered PTS as done and delisted it.
87  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Cryptomine.io - SHA-256 & Scrypt Unlimited Mining Contracts on: December 31, 2014, 12:22:53 PM
Just saw this, hope it will be considered.

Price: $314.2214
User: sumantso

Got paid for the campaign too, thanks Smiley
88  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 30, 2014, 10:05:18 AM
If it does not cost anything to produce a PoS coin then it does not cost anything to attack the network. As a result any PoS coin can be attacked for free

Yet another with no idea how it works. If it can be attacked for free how are those coins surviving? Take a look at Coinmarketcap, the top list is dominated by non-PoW coins. Surely, if its that easy they would've been attacked by now - the incentive is there.
89  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: BitShares News + dicussion [Short and sweet regular updates] on: December 29, 2014, 10:42:16 PM
In today's blog post titled BitShares Fee Schedule Explained, Bytemaster talks about the various fees in the system, ranging from transaction to registration. For anybody who has an interested in Bitshares I think its a must read.
90  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Governor of the central bank of India is speaking positively on Bitcoin on: December 29, 2014, 04:48:00 PM
I thought India was super against Bitcoin. What happened?

India was not super against Bitcoin, just smart enough not to buy on a bubble and allow the Western geeks a chance to cash out, like the Chinese did.
91  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 03:52:40 PM
Like it or not, some variation of PoS is going to dominate. The general opinion is slowly being aware that the money given over to the electricity and the hardware companies is better off being utilized to develop the coin itself.

No one is forced to give any money to anyone, people exercise their own choices.
Competition requires energy, no-competition doesn't.

So which of the competition is better suited - the one which is spending resources to keep the network running, or the other which is using the same resources in improving itself?

Again, confusing security model with distribution model.

Security costs depend on distribution rewards (issuance of new coins),
not whether the coin uses PoS or PoW.



You can buy miners and spend electricity and earn coins.
You can go to an exchange, spend money and buy coins.

Not really sure your point.  Mine is that cryptos like NXT can claim lower security cost because they aren't issuing new currency.  Very simple.


I doubt thats what NXT is claiming, though I can't attest to that. I was thinking more is terms of the Bitshares model where new coins are generated by elected delegates and awarded to all those working to develop and improve the coin.
92  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 03:47:52 PM
Like it or not, some variation of PoS is going to dominate. The general opinion is slowly being aware that the money given over to the electricity and the hardware companies is better off being utilized to develop the coin itself.

No one is forced to give any money to anyone, people exercise their own choices.
Competition requires energy, no-competition doesn't.

So which of the competition is better suited - the one which is spending resources to keep the network running, or the other which is using the same resources in improving itself?

Again, confusing security model with distribution model.

Security costs depend on distribution rewards (issuance of new coins),
not whether the coin uses PoS or PoW.



You can buy miners and spend electricity and earn coins.
You can go to an exchange, spend money and buy coins.
93  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 03:38:58 PM
Like it or not, some variation of PoS is going to dominate. The general opinion is slowly being aware that the money given over to the electricity and the hardware companies is better off being utilized to develop the coin itself.

No one is forced to give any money to anyone, people exercise their own choices.
Competition requires energy, no-competition doesn't.

So which of the competition is better suited - the one which is spending resources to keep the network running, or the other which is using the same resources in improving itself?
94  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 03:27:38 PM
Like it or not, some variation of PoS is going to dominate. The general opinion is slowly being aware that the money given over to the electricity and the hardware companies is better off being utilized to develop the coin itself.
95  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Mining pool gives Reward for 0 Shares..?!! on: December 29, 2014, 03:24:42 PM
The shares carry over, its to average out the luck.

Lets say there is a short round where you don't get much hashes, but a longer round where you get relatively more, then you're losing out. PPLNS aims to average this out and minimize variance.
96  Economy / Economics / Re: When will the USA pay their debts, if ever? on: December 29, 2014, 03:23:42 PM
Why would they pay off their debt? Its a pretty sweat deal they are having going on at the moment. They will simply keep printing more and more dollars and there are more suckers out there willing to give up their products and services produced with hard work for those Benjamins.
97  Economy / Speculation / Re: Several currencies collapsing and BTC price stagnant, why? on: December 29, 2014, 03:20:09 PM
Because people of these countries are buying swiss francs and not bitcoin  Grin

Really? I thought inspite of all the doom and gloom prediction, USD is still the currency of choice to flee into.
Currently Bitcoin doesn't really come across as a good place to store, considering it has been going down over the year.
98  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 02:14:42 PM
My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

It is if the market values it so. Now I don't know you personally and you may very well be a great painter, but its more likely they will be going for dime a dozen in which case your paintings will have a market cap of $4.
99  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of stake mining of bicoin on: December 29, 2014, 02:10:31 PM
If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

So why don't you go ahead and mine it? There are several valuable PoS coins, more valuable than PoW coins in fact if you discount Bitcoin.

You are stuck with common misunderstanding that mining increases the Bitcoin value. It goes the other way, difficulty, or rather the energy spent (difficulty also depends on the generation of hardware) increases or decrease with what the market speculates the value of the coin is. The value certainly doesn't depend upon the mining cost.
100  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: The difficulty HAS BEEN REDUCED!!!! on: December 29, 2014, 02:05:39 PM
Ok, so let me ask an on-topic question:

Where the hell is all this hashing power coming from?

Based on bitcoinwisdom it looks like we went from a 5% drop in hash rate to a 3.5% increase in a week. 8.5%. What's more it's taking on average 9 minutes to find a block, or a 10% boost in hashing power (or serious luck).

Where did 10% of new hashing power come from in 7 days? Bitmain? Maybe, but 30 petahashes (10% of 307ph) is 15,000 2th miners. That's either a lot of miners or my math is way, way off.

My guess is that the next gen ASICs are already starting to hash. Its the old ASIC manufacturer's trick - build the next gen ones with advance money, mine and increase the difficulty, and then give it to the customers when diff is already high. 
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