Great, well done Hashfast !

You stablished a new record in asic mining world ! You are fu**ing your own customers between your batches, really well done !



By the way, if the smart guy from HF that decided to put two different product ranges at the same price is reading, I was trying to be sarcastic.

What you have done wont be forgoten and I will take care to rembember to any person that decides to go into HF after this, if there is any

Just to remind that from the 23 of September they are supposed to have ordered the hardware for the BJ, which is the same as for the sierra and we have not seen yet. It's the exact same message that they told me days ago when I suggest them to offer the upgrade into sierras orders

Well there may be people that thinks that is fair what HF is doing, so just for giving all the range options I put it there. But apart from the HF itself I don't think that nobody will choose a)

Sorry but the sierra was on "sale" 3 days, when you could purchase it for 6000$. That is 400$ difference. I will pay them without any problem or they could also earn them as compensation for the delay, but that could be just to ambitious for my self as HF does not seem to take care of the first batch customers. I will be happy enough if the first one happens
At least they should give us the chance to change the orders or offer a compensation

I will ask here before opening a poll. For the first batch customers, what your prefer:

a) BJ in mid november and stay with the MPP starting the day shipped
b) BJ in mid november and the MPP starting 1st november
c) Turn your order into a sierra that ships in late november and refuse to the MPP

I will take c) option. I think its the minimun HF should be offering the their customers as the hardware is the SAME , the only thing that changes is the case and more chips of course. At least give us the chance, you already got our money. The option b) is also nice but it depends on the hashrate and its a bit more risky.

Edit: if you think another fair option just write it down

Sorry but I think you are not getting the point that we are trying to explain.

The MPP is ok and perfect. Lot of people including me went with HF just because of this.

The point is that you didn't make avaliable the two range of products from the first day. You waited long time to be almost every BJ sold and then you put on sale a machine with x3 hashing power with just one month "expected"  difference for 7000$. Even worse, you made 3 days of sale so you could buy a sierra for the BJ price almost.

After this lot of people tried to change the BJ order into a sierra because of course we expected delays and its from far a better choice. But you refuse to make that exchange long time ago.Now with the delay there is just 10 days between the two batches and that taking in account the "mid november" exact shipping day given by HF.

You think is fair that someone that puts money and faith into your company in the first batch will be receiving 3 times less hashing power that someone that comes after ?
Just in case, I got nothing against 2 batch customers as they made the right choice, so congratulations  

The big point here is that I am not complaining about that the hashrate is going so high that I may not ROI (that is something we accept when we decide to go mining), the thing is that YOU are the ones that are not taking of the first batch customers, not the market, not the hashrate and not the BTC. Its pretty simple in my head:
- 400GH in mid november + MPP . Lets say we havent ROI so 1,6TH for example in late February. This taking in acount that in February we will have to purchase again cooling, psus, cases and of course wait for the units to be shiped
- 1,2TH in late november

Both at the same price, lets make a poll to see what people (customers and not customers ) do prefer ?

Edit: just to make it worse, when you should be close to shipping the BJs you post an update of a sierra. Just no words for that  

Thanks for the help

The question:
 - What to do to change a BJ ordered into a sierra ? Or if you like, will you change the first batch BJ into sierras as a compensation for the delays ?
   If they say no. Why not ?
   They will say again that the hardware of the BJ have already been ordered (even we have not seen any pcb or board). The hardware of the BJ is the same as for a sierra: modular boards with chips, raspberry, psu and cooling. All the same except the case. I will pay them the case if that is their next excuse.
   What I want is to have the 1,2TH as the second batch of sierras will have in the 10 days of difference between batches. Its them fault to manage so bad with them marketing and delays. With this 1,2TH we will be able to ROI and wont have to apply for the MPP, so they will earn those chips in the future. I think lot of people, if not everybody will switch into a sierra and refuse to the MPP. At least give us the chance

- Any pics will be welcome, especially about the pcbs they claim to have ordered

Sorry but I think those 700$ are just for shipping. I mean then you have to add any cost in customs, fees of the VAT and so on. That is something that pays the customer, not HF in this case.

Eventough, I have been shipped and old 1984 mac from the US to Spain for 120$ and for sure is much heavier than the units HF is shipping that costs me 375$ which I think is pretty abusive. I will have my unit hosted of course.

Sorry for the offtopic 

https://hashfast.com/pictures-of-the-sierra-in-production/

There you have the new pictures we demand  (ironic mode on)

Like I said in the other thread, congratulations to anyone who has purchased a sierra as its pretty clear where HF is working on.

Yeah that is how HF takes cares of his first batch customers !

We sell them a product, we then offer a better product at the same price and before even shipping the first one they are just with the second batch renders, prototypes and pictures.

Now please HF come back to me and send me an email again telling me which part excluding the case is different from a BJ hardware...

It is pretty clear who won this race. Congratulations to all 2 batch sierra customers

Anyways they just show a "prototype" case, what about the pcbs ?

They told me the cases and the BJs hardware were already purchased some time ago. I asked if they could make us a favour and post some photos and they say they will.

Even their webmaster posted a message saying he was waiting to post the pictures, but I am still waiting...

It was not signed by their CEO but anyway you are right. I write them a lot of reasons and explanations for them to take into consider.

By the message it was clear that they have not even read them.Now you tell me its also the same message you got this makes it even worse. Yes, they take so much care about their customers, they got the best contracts with the best factories out there, last and best technology on the market and....and ...NOTHING !

Hashfast is turning worse every day that comes through. Anyway, I asked them for the terms of sale of the day of my purchase and I am still waiting. I have answered them again to this message and tomorrow will try to speak with Jhon. Lets see what they do with the last chance I am giving them.

Well, I got an answer for the suggestion for upgrading the BJs orders into sierras:

Actually, the hardware and cases for this batch of Baby Jets have already been purchased.

We understand and appreciate your concerns.

However, per our Terms & Conditions, we are still within the anticipated ship window for our Batch 1 order to ship by December 31, 2013. Our First Batch customers are still going to receive their machines before anyone else and have been given the MPP free of charge.

We promise to continue to keep all our customers up-to-date with the newest information and developments with our products.

I can simply take out some clear ideas:

- Which parts are different from the BJs and the sierras ? They said just the case, now they have "hardware" purchased. I will pay for the case if that the excuse they want to give me.

- We understand and appreciate your concerns, but we dont care even a little I will add.

- By the "anticipated ship window" is clear that they covered their backs really well as we already knew in advance and it seems that they will stick to that date. I am afraid mid November may not be the final delivery time at this point.

- HF simply dont care about their customers, even they are the first batch, they are really late or they offer others better choices.

Yes, we are all pretty much in the same situation, but right now the best ones located are the batch 2 sierras customers. Seems they have no delay, they will be shipping at the same time as the BJs, they have x3 hashing power and for the same price as a BJ customer.
And how can aditional chips will mean in any delay for 2 and 3 customers ?
HF is supposed to have paid already for the MPP and 2 batch waffers.
And if the first batch customers that take the biggest risk by going first into this and support with their own money HF longer batches, are suposed to be late, why will I will not demand any compensation if the later batches are going to still be on scheadule and not mine?


We all acepted the risk on going into the first batch of a miner of this type, I will not argue that.
But the thing here is, who the hell expected HF was going to deploy a x3 hashing power machine, for the same price and in a rack server in a sort time ?

I mean, who was the bored and smart guy in HF that decided to sell over 550 units of a product and then offer a much better new product, before even having deployed the first batch at the same price?

You dont have to be really smart to think that anyone that has bought a BJ would have prefer to purchase a sierra instead if you have given them the chance. I see it so clear and simple that really do not know how a company like HF has done such a big mistake.

My main concern when the sierra appears was not the price itself. I asked as many customers if we could upgrade our order to a sierra one, because I expected a delay in first batch delivery and I do not expect HF will take care about their customers ( as everyone can see their are not). Now batch one is expected to mid november and batch 2 for late november, that means all will be deployed at the same time for me, taking in acount last HF expectations.


Well the price with the MPP included was the best option out there at the time I purchase the BJ as it was too late for going into KNC. There was no other one out there offering a delivery as close to knc as HF, with the MPP included and I still remenber the days they said they will try to catch knc delivery time 


Sorry but I think you are going really wrong on this. We all expected delays as we accept that risk when we bought the units, but not such a huge delay (which I still think will be longer). Anyways, what anyone could not expect when purchasing a BJ was that they wil piss off these customers by offering for the same price a x3 hashing power machine with a month gap. If that gap will stay there, we could have a litle chance to gain some advantage on the sierras customers in profit terms and I will be satisfied when the MPP comes in. Now the delivery of the two batches is expected to be the same, or 1-2 week difference "oficially by HF" what happens ?

I preffer to have 1,2TH by end november rather that 400GH in the third week of november and another 1,2TH in 3 months time when they will be pretty much useless and ridiculous comparing the profit terms a sierra customer would have done in this 3 months

I do not see a crazy idea to ship and compensate the first batch customers with a sierra so they can roi and earn in the future MPP chips. It seems that you are a 2 batch customer or longer and you dont want such a huge power deployed, which I can perfectly understand if I were in your situation. But try to be on our place 

Well, I got an answer from HF saying that the second batch of sierras is expected ship in the last week of november. That means when they ship us a BJ, someone will get at the same time x3 hashing power than you for the same price. Just perfect way to reward the first batch customers...

The only possibility now on the table is to move all the BJ orders into sierras as I suggested. If not HF will have all the first batch customers really angry  I emailed them with the suggestion, lets see how they move next.

For me, or they make this movement or HF is over

Yep I missunderstood and thought that the substrate and silicon process was going to be done by the foundry also.

About the contract of the foundry, as you said the foundry will be the one writing the laws in the negotiation. I was just trying to point out that as there are so many factors that can make this procces into a delay, HF should have though something better than just covering their back for asking the first refunds in January.

Thanks for the lesson in foundry negotiation 

Yes HF may not be responsible for the delay ( still waiting for the pics of something that is not the chips), but for a customer they totally are. A customer does not care if the delay is by the foundry, by the pcb supplier or by any other.They want their units on time, as simple as that.

Anyway, you are telling me that you would sign a contract with a foundry like TSMC for hundred thousands of dollars and that you wont have a fixed deadline and further compensation if they dont reach that date ?

Well, I was just not suggesting to ship the BJs into sierras chasis, I suggest shipping as sierras complete units that are expected to be shipped in late november. Back in time when they made the "3 days sale" you could get a sierra with x3 hasing power than a BJ at the same price !

But when I complained about this and some customers try to upgrade or change their BJ into a sierra unit, HF said a clear NO, saying that there was a month between those batches, more than enough time for a BJ to catch the sierra in profit terms.

Now that the gap between the two batches seems to be really small, it makes no sense to ship the first batch customers a babyjet.
- The chip and boards are the same
- The power supply is the same
- The cooling solution I suppose is also the same
- The controller is the same

The only difference is the case, which HF has not yet bought or produced for the BJ. Indeed there is still no render about it, just for the sierra. So why no purchase a bunch of server racks cases and make the things right HF ? This way if we roi you wont have to execute the MPP.

Give the first batch customers a compensation for the delay, reward them for going first into this and compensate them for the error you made by offering the sierra units one month later and no saying a word in advance or giving them the chance to upgrade their orders.

This is what I said like 3 times. They should ship sierras instead of BJs to compensate all this delays and the offers they made in the past and so we may roi and they dont have to execute the MPP in a future

Instead of modifying the MPP why does not HF tranfer the first babyjet orders into sierras ?

The price was the same for a BJ and for a sierra with no MPP in those sale days with november shipping. Indeed, the chips/boards are the same, so the only thing that changes is the case, which seems that they are only improving for sierras and not BJ. They dont have the chips so I doubt they have already ordered the cases for the BJs (which I am still waiting photos)

If they ship sierras for the first batch you compensate these customers for the delay, you reward them for been the first going into this, you compensate them for offering a product with 3 times more hashing power with 1 month (lets see how much is now..) gap and no saying a word, you open a chance to make ROI, so in the end those wafers that HF is supposed to have payed already, you could sell them as MPP does not have to be executed.