HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[Micky25]

Did anyone else just get an email from hashfast saying your order is now complete?

Yes, me, order number #13xx. After some guys started talking about trying to enforce refunds lately, we are now entering phase 7.

don't get me wrong, but shouldn't have such things (contracts with manufacturer and PSU supplier) happened months before? Based on my training and experience it seems we are at the beginning of chapter 6 of the ASIC-manufacturers field manual, "Delay, Smoke and Mirrors".

next to come

Chapter 7: "Put all orders "in production" to close the refund backdoor."
Chapter 8: "Launch the cool Chip-Gen. 2/3/4 or 150% more hashrate upgrade-offer, delivery in 3 months."
and finally Chapter 9: "Final Refund -50%: Custom made good!"

I hope not.

Since my order is complete, I eagerly await delivery in the next couple of days. Thank you!

[xstr8guy]

cypherdoc;
do not feed people that are just looking to fight...
It pains me to see so many people I have on ignore popping up in your replies because you quote them, you are making all my well thought out 'ignores' redundant.
just use ignore, trust me.    Nothing will be missed that is of value.

it's ok Minor.  i'm a big boy.  i can handle them myself.
the KNC trolls have a well documented method of attack.  first, one will deliver an unprovoked personal attack against me.  they start it; EVERY SINGLE TIME.  something along the lines of how stupid HF was to hire me.  this is a feeble attempt to make them look bad by making me look bad.  we're all bad!
this is then followed by a pile on by other KNC trolls.  we all know who they are.  their motivation is clear; try to degrade and if possible destroy the competition so that their Jupiters/Saturns provide the ROI that they never will.
and yes, i will respond to expose them for what they are.

Surely you are mistaken.   They cannot be KNC trolls.   Anyone with a KNC product is too busy trying to figure out which of the 8 versions of the firmware will actually make their miner work vs. fizzle.   There is no way they could be also posting AND playing russian roulette with firmware.   

Too true!  I'm a KNC owner and that made even me laugh.

But I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on the quality of the units.  I just think the KNC threads are dominated by about 8 or 10 guys with major OCD issues.  I think they spend more time mucking about with their miners than they do hashing with them.

[Wesly]

Well, I got an answer from HF saying that the second batch of sierras is expected ship in the last week of november. That means when they ship us a BJ, someone will get at the same time x3 hashing power than you for the same price. Just perfect way to reward the first batch customers...

The only possibility now on the table is to move all the BJ orders into sierras as I suggested. If not HF will have all the first batch customers really angry   I emailed them with the suggestion, lets see how they move next.

For me, or they make this movement or HF is over

I think it will be a huge mistake to simply upgrade all B1 BJ to Sierra or provide extra MPP hashing modules upfront without any additional cost or consideration.  With all these unexpected additional hashing power (up to 1PH) coming online at once to drive up difficulty even further, nobody is going to win.  What's worse is HashFast will now be pissing off their B2 and B3 customers as well who were only expecting 400TH to 500TH to come online from HashFast B1.  The additional chips given to B1 customers will also meant longer delays for B2/B3 customers to receive their miner as there will be less chips, materials and resources to go around.

How would you feel if you intentionally skip B1 knowing it was high risk/high reward.  You anticipated there would most likely be a delay and the difficulty will skyrock.  So you ended up ordering a B2 Sierra early (first 10) because it is less expensive (per Gh) and you figure the production delay will be caught up within the 1 month between B1 and B2.  Long and behold, the anticipated delay is a reality and you congratulate yourself for making a smart choice....  But wait, what?  Instead of being #10 to receive one of the first 10 Sierra, you are now #610 (or 1010 if including IceDrill)?!?  What's worse than the delay is now there is an additional 1PH that you thought won't appear for another 90 days, if the delay doesn't kill your ROI, the additional difficulty surely will!

So B2 customers are being penalized for B1 buyers' recklessness and greed, who didn't properly anticipate the delay, and they didn't plan for skyrocking difficulty (do you think this is Avalon B1 when there is no other ASIC?.)  If B1 buyers were smart and held out for a better price, they wouldn't have been in this situation.  When there was little to no demand, HashFast was forced to have sales and lower their price on their B2 miners.  The same thing would have happened if B1 customers weren't so eager to hand over their money.

MPP is compensation enough for B1 customers.  Congrat to cypherdoc whose wish is going to come true, who kept mentioning 400% more hashing power in 90 days as if that was a guarantee or given...  Without the delay and if BJ were to ship tomorrow, I believe you will earn back 2/3 of the Bitcoins you paid, so just 50% more hashing power would have been needed in the beginning to make 100% ROI, doubling that would only meant you will get one additional ASIC module.  But now with the delay, it is looking more likely you will end up getting 400% more hashing power (1.6TH) instead of a measly 400GH.  As designed, MPP is rewarding/compensating for the delay and the longer the delay, the more additional hashing power you will receive in 90 days, and yet B1 customers want more because they are greedy, overpaid and naive to believe there won't be any delay when any reasonable person can see that one little thing can throw the incredibly tight schedule off.

[cedivad]

What a lot of bs the post above mine is.
MPP will not save anyones' ass, and i've ordered with that plan already annunced, so don't say that it's a gift to the poor batch 1 customers.

I, batch 1 customer, will lose 75%.

[Visesrion]

I think it will be a huge mistake to simply upgrade all B1 BJ to Sierra or provide extra MPP hashing modules upfront without any additional cost or consideration.  With all these unexpected additional hashing power (up to 1PH) coming online at once to drive up difficulty even further, nobody is going to win.  What's worse is HashFast will now be pissing off their B2 and B3 customers as well who were only expecting 400TH to 500TH to come online from HashFast B1.  The additional chips given to B1 customers will also meant longer delays for B2/B3 customers to receive their miner as there will be less chips, materials and resources to go around.

Yes, we are all pretty much in the same situation, but right now the best ones located are the batch 2 sierras customers. Seems they have no delay, they will be shipping at the same time as the BJs, they have x3 hashing power and for the same price as a BJ customer.
And how can aditional chips will mean in any delay for 2 and 3 customers ?
HF is supposed to have paid already for the MPP and 2 batch waffers.
And if the first batch customers that take the biggest risk by going first into this and support with their own money HF longer batches, are suposed to be late, why will I will not demand any compensation if the later batches are going to still be on scheadule and not mine?

How would you feel if you intentionally skip B1 knowing it was high risk/high reward.  You anticipated there would most likely be a delay and the difficulty will skyrock.  So you ended up ordering a B2 Sierra early (first 10) because it is less expensive (per Gh) and you figure the production delay will be caught up within the 1 month between B1 and B2.  Long and behold, the anticipated delay is a reality and you congratulate yourself for making a smart choice....  But wait, what?  Instead of being #10 to receive one of the first 10 Sierra, you are now #610 (or 1010 if including IceDrill)?!?  What's worse than the delay is now there is an additional 1PH that you thought won't appear for another 90 days, if the delay doesn't kill your ROI, the additional difficulty surely will!

We all acepted the risk on going into the first batch of a miner of this type, I will not argue that.
But the thing here is, who the hell expected HF was going to deploy a x3 hashing power machine, for the same price and in a rack server in a sort time ?

I mean, who was the bored and smart guy in HF that decided to sell over 550 units of a product and then offer a much better new product, before even having deployed the first batch at the same price?

You dont have to be really smart to think that anyone that has bought a BJ would have prefer to purchase a sierra instead if you have given them the chance. I see it so clear and simple that really do not know how a company like HF has done such a big mistake.

My main concern when the sierra appears was not the price itself. I asked as many customers if we could upgrade our order to a sierra one, because I expected a delay in first batch delivery and I do not expect HF will take care about their customers ( as everyone can see their are not). Now batch one is expected to mid november and batch 2 for late november, that means all will be deployed at the same time for me, taking in acount last HF expectations.

So B2 customers are being penalized for B1 buyers' recklessness and greed, who didn't properly anticipate the delay, and they didn't plan for skyrocking difficulty (do you think this is Avalon B1 when there is no other ASIC?.)  If B1 buyers were smart and held out for a better price, they wouldn't have been in this situation.  When there was little to no demand, HashFast was forced to have sales and lower their price on their B2 miners.  The same thing would have happened if B1 customers weren't so eager to hand over their money.

Well the price with the MPP included was the best option out there at the time I purchase the BJ as it was too late for going into KNC. There was no other one out there offering a delivery as close to knc as HF, with the MPP included and I still remenber the days they said they will try to catch knc delivery time 

MPP is compensation enough for B1 customers.  Congrat to cypherdoc whose wish is going to come true, who kept mentioning 400% more hashing power in 90 days as if that was a guarantee or given...  Without the delay and if BJ were to ship tomorrow, I believe you will earn back 2/3 of the Bitcoins you paid, so just 50% more hashing power would have been needed in the beginning to make 100% ROI, doubling that would only meant you will get one additional ASIC module.  But now with the delay, it is looking more likely you will end up getting 400% more hashing power (1.6TH) instead of a measly 400GH.  As designed, MPP is rewarding/compensating for the delay and the longer the delay, the more additional hashing power you will receive in 90 days, and yet B1 customers want more because they are greedy, overpaid and naive to believe there won't be any delay when any reasonable person can see that one little thing can throw the incredibly tight schedule off.

Sorry but I think you are going really wrong on this. We all expected delays as we accept that risk when we bought the units, but not such a huge delay (which I still think will be longer). Anyways, what anyone could not expect when purchasing a BJ was that they wil piss off these customers by offering for the same price a x3 hashing power machine with a month gap. If that gap will stay there, we could have a litle chance to gain some advantage on the sierras customers in profit terms and I will be satisfied when the MPP comes in. Now the delivery of the two batches is expected to be the same, or 1-2 week difference "oficially by HF" what happens ?

I preffer to have 1,2TH by end november rather that 400GH in the third week of november and another 1,2TH in 3 months time when they will be pretty much useless and ridiculous comparing the profit terms a sierra customer would have done in this 3 months

I do not see a crazy idea to ship and compensate the first batch customers with a sierra so they can roi and earn in the future MPP chips. It seems that you are a 2 batch customer or longer and you dont want such a huge power deployed, which I can perfectly understand if I were in your situation. But try to be on our place 

[cedivad]

Everything looks really easy in my mind:

Option A): they don't care about their customers
---- Conclusion: legal battle. No problem.
Option B): they do care about their customers
---- Conclusion: either legal battle or more warranties.
Option C): they are trying to be silent and to take time, to screw option A and B.
---- Conclusion: act now.

I don't know about you, but i don't want to lose time.
And i don't want infinite number of discussions, either. I want actions.

[Wesly]

What a lot of bs the post above mine is.
MPP will not save anyones' ass, and i've ordered with that plan already annunced, so don't say that it's a gift to the poor batch 1 customers.

I, batch 1 customer, will lose 75%.

MPP will not save anyones? wow, really you just figure out that yourself when so many others have been raising red flag and warning people in light of skyrocking difficulty, in 90 days, even with 400% more hashing power 90 days, you probably won't ROI paying for B1 BJ's high price ($14/Gh)?

i've ordered with that plan already annunced  What you were missing is some basic math and should have plan for delay which has been the norm and should be expected.  With that brilliant logic, you probably bought one of the first ASICMiner Block Erupter USB for 2BTC as well.

I never said it was a gift, you got exactly what you paid for, more hashing power to compensate due to the delay, 400GH in 90 days if there is no delay and likely 1.6TH now that that's a delay.  This was never a guarantee that you will make a profit, nobody can guarantee that, otherwise we will all be rich!  You are a grown man, you make your own financial decision.  You just didn't properly plan for the expected delay and skyrocking difficulty, which has been going up 30% for the past several months, so it is not exactly news.  That's even before KNC and HashFast started to ship amass.  You should have thank cypherdoc for keep bragging about how with HashFast he was going to get 400% extra hashing power to run away from KnC..  Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.  If that's what you predict is going to happen then you shouldn't have bought it in the first place and wait for a better price!  Oh well, to each is own, it is your money to blow.

[cedivad]

Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.

33% of it would be good at this point.
With an half stated mid-november delivery and still no proof of anything, i think we will se the units just before next year, with 4x the hashrate 3 months later, when everything is useless.

Fortunately there is a downward limit to how much we can lose. I guess that we will get back at least 1/10 of our BTC.

Funny.

[perezoso]

With it now completely clear that the MPP will kick in, in full force, I wanna second (third?, fourth?, fifth?) the proposal that HF ship the 1st batch BabyJets in Sierra cases.  HF announcing its intent to do so would be a good way for HF to quickly show its commitment to the MPP.  

That alone probably won't be sufficient to make the MPP provide ROI (which is HF's commitment), but having room to deal with MPP GN modules without a lot of hassle or hardware purchases would be a useful thing to provide Batch 1 customers.  It would also slightly help the emerging problem of Batch 1 customers being at a disadvantage to Batch 2.

Hell, speaking personally, since I ordered a BJ plus the upgrade kit, if the full 4 modules from the MPP come (and it seems they will), I'll need two Sierra cases. Either that or just ship me the MPP modules already installed in 2 BJ's.  I know the big miners don't want BJ cases, but it would work for me.

Anyway, slow down flamers... I'm not saying the case switch solves the emerging problems for Batch 1, I'm just saying it would be a step in the right direction.

[Ytterbium]

cypherdoc;
do not feed people that are just looking to fight...
It pains me to see so many people I have on ignore popping up in your replies because you quote them, you are making all my well thought out 'ignores' redundant.
just use ignore, trust me.    Nothing will be missed that is of value.

it's ok Minor.  i'm a big boy.  i can handle them myself.
the KNC trolls have a well documented method of attack.  first, one will deliver an unprovoked personal attack against me.  they start it; EVERY SINGLE TIME.  something along the lines of how stupid HF was to hire me.  this is a feeble attempt to make them look bad by making me look bad.  we're all bad!
this is then followed by a pile on by other KNC trolls.  we all know who they are.  their motivation is clear; try to degrade and if possible destroy the competition so that their Jupiters/Saturns provide the ROI that they never will.
and yes, i will respond to expose them for what they are.

Surely you are mistaken.   They cannot be KNC trolls.   Anyone with a KNC product is too busy trying to figure out which of the 8 versions of the firmware will actually make their miner work vs. fizzle.   There is no way they could be also posting AND playing russian roulette with firmware.   

Too true!  I'm a KNC owner and that made even me laugh.

But I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on the quality of the units.  I just think the KNC threads are dominated by about 8 or 10 guys with major OCD issues.  I think they spend more time mucking about with their miners than they do hashing with them.

Lol, this is about right.  Almost all of the people posting are getting 500+ GH/s with their Jupiters, or 250+ with their Saturns.  A few people are slightly worse off, but no worse then 450, which is more then the hashrate they paid for, although obviously they'd like to be as fast as everyone else.

If you think the reality is that most KnC owners aren't mining, and mining at or near full speed you're really deep in self delusion.

You can claim that day 1/2 orders were late, by a week or so.  On the other hand, everyone who ordered units for "October delivery" basically got their units about ahead of schedule, with 37% extra hashpower.

Cypherdoc was asking in the KnC thread where the "miner protection plan is".  Well now we know: KnC's miner protection plan was to deliver ahead of schedule and over power  

Of course, unfortunately the miners still probably won't ROI in btc, but they'll likely cover more then half their BTC cost and hopefully their full USD cost fairly quickly. In the long run they'll probably still pay for themselves long before we hit the 1-billion+ difficulty needed to make them unprofitable v.s. electrical costs.

[cedivad]

Guys, who cares about empty sierra cases? Just take a norco-something and mod it if you need that in a datacenter.

Let's stick to something real. Give me the weight of the sierra case in bare chips, that would be real.

[crumbs]

... You should have thank cypherdoc for keep bragging about how with HashFast he was going to get 400% extra hashing power to run away from KnC..  Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.  If that's what you predict is going to happen then you shouldn't have bought it in the first place and wait for a better price!  Oh well, to each is own, it is your money to blow.

Pretty much this.  Pointing out red flags like no CC/PP payments & the absurdity of MPP earlier got me labeled as a FUDster, mentioning it now will be read as schadenfreude, or just mocking people for their stupidity.  I guess the polite thing to do is to simply let people get taken, over & over, by ASIC makers.  Pointing out fails in logic & math is cruel & in bad taste, no better than telling the sucker at a Three-card Monte table that the game's rigged, and the only way to win is to walk away.

[winit]

Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.

33% of it would be good at this point.
With an half stated mid-november delivery and still no proof of anything, i think we will se the units just before next year, with 4x the hashrate 3 months later, when everything is useless.

Fortunately there is a downward limit to how much we can lose. I guess that we will get back at least 1/10 of our money.

... if you calculate that in USD.

Funny.

If that's how you feel about it I will give you $1200 for you BabyJet

[cedivad]

Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.

33% of it would be good at this point.
With an half stated mid-november delivery and still no proof of anything, i think we will se the units just before next year, with 4x the hashrate 3 months later, when everything is useless.

Fortunately there is a downward limit to how much we can lose. I guess that we will get back at least 1/10 of our money.

... if you calculate that in USD.

Funny.

If that's how you feel about it I will give you $1200 for you BabyJet

lol, it could be something worth considering. you are offering 6 btc, what about 17? come on, i just lost a ton of money, i need to recover something.

[winit]

Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.

33% of it would be good at this point.
With an half stated mid-november delivery and still no proof of anything, i think we will se the units just before next year, with 4x the hashrate 3 months later, when everything is useless.

Fortunately there is a downward limit to how much we can lose. I guess that we will get back at least 1/10 of our money.

... if you calculate that in USD.

Funny.

If that's how you feel about it I will give you $1200 for you BabyJet

lol, it could be something worth considering. you are offering 6 btc, what about 17? come on, i just lost a ton of money, i need to recover something.

Well if you really feel you are going to only recover 10% I'm offering a much better deal.

I'll happily pay 7BTC for any Babyjet

[cypherdoc]

Well, his wish came true!  I always thought that was a crazy thing to hope for, to earn back 33% of the bitcoins you paid the miner for in 90 days.

33% of it would be good at this point.
With an half stated mid-november delivery and still no proof of anything, i think we will se the units just before next year, with 4x the hashrate 3 months later, when everything is useless.

Fortunately there is a downward limit to how much we can lose. I guess that we will get back at least 1/10 of our money.

... if you calculate that in USD.

Funny.

If that's how you feel about it I will give you $1200 for you BabyJet

lol, it could be something worth considering. you are offering 6 btc, what about 17? come on, i just lost a ton of money, i need to recover something.

i'll take 9 of your BJ's for $1250 each.

[cedivad]

I said that 10% is the lower end. And anyway, 10% is 8btc per bj. edit, sorry, i'm stupid.
Every offer > 20btc is sold immediately.
I will consider from 15 to 20.

[cedivad]

i'll take 9 of your BJ's for $1250 each.

It's about how much it will cost me to have the initial amount back following the legal route. So that route is preferred, again. Expecially if i can find other people to share the cost of the laywer with.

[cypherdoc]

i'll take 9 of your BJ's for $1250 each.

It's about how much it will cost me to have the initial amount back following the legal route. So that route is preferred, again. Expecially if i can find other people to share the cost of the laywer with.

you're in Batch 1 with MPP, correct?  what's your order #?

[cedivad]

i'll take 9 of your BJ's for $1250 each.

It's about how much it will cost me to have the initial amount back following the legal route. So that route is preferred, again. Expecially if i can find other people to share the cost of the laywer with.

you're in Batch 1 with MPP, correct?  what's your order #?

One of the last ones. Yes, batch 1 with mpp. Also, they told me that the units would be delivered with sierra cases since that i asked.
But hashfast has the super facilities to delivery 500 boxes in 1 day, right? So why do you care about the order number?