1) trolls could attack XBTC/BTC like they did to XCP/BTC.
2) x BTC needs to be put in a public address for x XBTC to circulate in counterparty.
1) They wouldn't be able to attack XBTC because a) BTC cannot be held in escrow b) XBTC can be held in escrow This means that: i) Someone cannot make an order without adequate XBTC ii) Counterparty will hold in escrow XBTC so they cannot revoke their side of the order 2) As discussed XBTC would remain as an artificially constrained asset. This has the effect of tending to return back to market value. You could think of XBTC <--> BTC as a gateway service. In your reasoning of 1), replace XBTC with XCP, you will find it's the same. Buying XBTC needs BTCPay too and could be attacked by trolls in same way. |
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1) trolls could attack XBTC/BTC like they did to XCP/BTC.
2) x BTC needs to be put in a public address for x XBTC to circulate in counterparty.
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Price now is just noise. The project is still in baby stage.
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No offend, but a speculater like you contributes nothing to bitcoin, no matter you win or lose money. Therefore, your interest on BTC really matters no so much. If anyone interested in bitcoin is just want to buy low and sell high, then BTC better to die now.
So why do you buy Bitcoin, and not just donate to Bitcoin related start ups, if it´s not about making profit? I buy bitcoin because I believe it have a chance to be a reliable store of value, so that I can hedge the risk of inflation. Moreover, I also want to be rich, but prefer to be rich because bitcoin is more successful, not because someone unfortunately buy BTC from me at a large loss. If you buy bitcoins to store value, then you probably don't know much about money. Bitcoin value is only held up by speculation, so trusting bitcoin to hold your wealth is giving your money to the bitcoin hodlers and trust that they won't cash out. That is naive as an investment and a naive way to deal with wealth. If you want to store value, then buy resources like rare-earth metals, that are in constant demand together with technological advancements and their supply is constantly getting tighter. Bitcoin is not rare, it's only decided by a group of people that it is rare. And you are also trusting a group of unknown people that it will stay rare. I think you have confused value with price. The price of bitcoin now is manipulated by a few people with the help of the exchanges. The value of Bitcoin, however, lies in that it's the only scheme which provides a reliable accountant system without requiring trust on any centralized authority, shared all over the world, and backed up by a huge computing power. You can speculate on its price as much as you want, but the value of bitcoin is much more than that. How it will change the world is still largely unknown and we just see the tip of the iceberg. That's again why I said the speculators really do not matter to the future of bitcoin. |
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No offend, but a speculater like you contributes nothing to bitcoin, no matter you win or lose money. Therefore, your interest on BTC really matters no so much. If everyone interested in bitcoin is just want to buy low and sell high, then BTC better to die now.
But speculators who chant Choo Choo and are delusional about the future contribute more? For instance how do you contribute to bitcoin? or how does windjc? Don't take me wrong, I am not saying that everyone should contribute to BTC or stop speculating. I am just saying that BTC is not a pure zero sum game for speculators. Therefore, its destiny is not determined by speculators. Bitcoin has a great potential to grow up due to a lot of those who contribute to the codes and create businesses on it. Those are the one who really determines the future of the bitcoin, not us (no matter we are bulls or bears here). |
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No offend, but a speculater like you contributes nothing to bitcoin, no matter you win or lose money. Therefore, your interest on BTC really matters no so much. If anyone interested in bitcoin is just want to buy low and sell high, then BTC better to die now.
So why do you buy Bitcoin, and not just donate to Bitcoin related start ups, if it´s not about making profit? I buy bitcoin because I believe it have a chance to be a reliable store of value, so that I can hedge the risk of inflation. Moreover, I also want to be rich, but prefer to be rich because bitcoin is more successful, not because someone unfortunately buy BTC from me at a large loss. |
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It makes me laugh that "experts" here are actually saying that this is an permanent upwards trend, even if it's not still sure if MtGox can return it's customers $ and BTC.
do you think the fate of gox bears strongly on the long-term value of btc? if so, why? It's because that's what most have been waiting for. A solid reason to call bitcoin an Ponzi scheme. If Gox goes bad, then it will be played out like bitcoin is actually just a tool for people like Karpeles to prey on their victims. You have vision. Bitcoin has been through WAY worse than this. And it keeps on keeping on. You are just caught up in the moment with no historical vantage point. Its laughable that you think a healthy market means one with no risks. Go trade rocks for sand if you want no risk. Otherwise be quiet please.(personal and historically unsubstantiated angry opinion) f.a.c.t. I bought at 200$, when bitcoin was actually covered by an famous news program in China that is known for representing the Chinese government stance. I sold at around the start of December, when there were no volume to support the price going up and it got clear that China won't have any legal potential with bitcoin. I only bought back once around 800, for couple of hours after I sold again. The last reason was only because I was intoxicated and bored. So, you religious/lying sack of excrement, don't tell me about having no vision. Pricks like you have been telling me 2 month, that NOW it seems like the price is picking up again, making up childish reasons like "China doesn't even matter!". And for all those two months I held my own decision with only winning by doing this. The slow downfall just continues and continues and it's not difficult to see why. Delusional pricks like you make me feel shame of my interest in bitcoin, because you do make this place look like a cult or a gang of crooks. No offend, but a speculater like you contributes nothing to bitcoin, no matter you win or lose money. Therefore, your interest on BTC really matters no so much. If everyone interested in bitcoin is just want to buy low and sell high, then BTC better to die now. |
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Why people keep trying to persuade others here? How about just bull longs, bear shorts, and others hold?
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The current users are all alpha testers. We shouldn't have too much alpha testers. Too many disappointed users may kill this project.
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XCP is not another altcoin. The key is to improve the Dex. Without a working reliable DEX, put it on more exchanges is just a pump and dump. It may make the early investors rich quickly, but never a real success. For those who have tens of thousands of XCP, I don't think you can liquidate all you holding by just pump and dump. A real DEX is a must.
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There's already a sub-board for Chinese and other languages, so please speak English here. Please respect the rule of this forum.
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In case you are really intested in the translation:
Where's JR?
Where're people used to be here?
This thread was quite active before, but now is dying due to JR's wife?
No offend to JR's wife and him. Just a translation.
To the OP,
This thread is dying because exchanges have taken the place. Moreover, mastercoin has it's own forums now.
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In any case, we have Dex so all we need is one centralized exchange that people can buy their first XCP.
About the DEX, looks like we have another Troll... New parsing rules which should handle such trolls effectively will go into effect with block 286500. Everyone, be sure to upgrade to at least v5.0.So, if someone's order got stuck matched by this troll order, there is no way to get XCP back except to wait till the order expires as set by --expiration parameter? XCP will not be lost and get back to the owner again, not no quick way to get them back? Yes (as set by the minimum of the expirations of the two matched orders). But that'll change with block 286500, after which only 10 blocks will ever be allowed for BTC payments to be made. How about the troll do it again and again. We have to find a way to prevent this almost cost less attack. |
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A lot of BTC was paid to lawyer and seems the advice was stop serving US residents. What a useless and expensive advice.
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Anyone has tried to contact Kate to ask about Deprived?
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As far as I understand, the wallet isn't a protocol but a client side construction - and the protocol only recognizes as XCP as being held by such and such address, it is not aware of what other addresses may or may not be in the wallet.
But we're not talking about XCP. The address has XCP. I'm talking about the BTC needed to fund the XCP transaction. Address has 1 XCP, 0.0001 BTC. To send, for some reason you need 0.0003 BTC, even though that much is not consumed. A simple answer is that counterparty protocol does not allow multiple inputs, therefore it requires all the inputs come from the address where you have XCP. Moreover, counterpartyd does not know about the existence of the wallet. Wallet is not in the bitcoin protocol and is completely in the BTC client implementation. |
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Yeah I just read through it, I hadn't seen it before. Seems like gox is in the wrong about this. Although I do hope this issue gets corrected sometime in the future, it seems like this could be pretty confusing for 3rd party escrow services where one's transaction id is supposed to be used to track a payment. (Although I suppose you could just look at the receiving address as well). Trust only the txid of confirmed transactions. |
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I've heard MtGox has changed their bank partner, and maybe now or soon the money withdrawn will be better? Then everyone is hurrying in selling their coins and try to get their cash back?
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Yes, without escrow, anyone can eat all the sell orders without much cost. Therefore, I suggest
1) add proportional escrow fee in XCP for buy orders.
2) buy orders less than 10 XCP is free from escrow fee, so new users without XCP can still use the exchange.
All escrow fee goes to the seller if Btcpay is not sent in time. Otherwise, it goes back to the buyer.
I see one potential problem with the XCP escrow solution: what do we do about honest XCP buyers who want to place limit orders? Unless I am mistaken, under this system if I place a resting limit order to buy XCP and turn off my computer, I run the risk of an XCP seller hitting my bid and collecting the escrowed XCP, since I am not around to execute a BTCPay. This would really discourage XCP buyers from placing resting orders. Maybe this is not a bad thing though. Since XCP is not built for high-frequency trading there is nothing wrong with a 1-sided order book reflecting the asymmetry in XCP/BTC exchange. The XCP/BTC exchange would just resemble Ebay instead of the NYSE. I am not sure how the expire time of BTCPay is set. Is it always set by the XCP sellers? Could the buyer of limit order set it? If it is set by the buyer, then problem solved. How about who put the order first always determine the BTCPay expire time? The expire time of BTCpay is simply the lesser of the two expirations involved in the transaction. Thanks. Then it is a little bit more difficult to punish the late buyers since the sellers can attack the buyers by setting a very short expire time. One possible solution is maybe only the one who matches the existing orders needs to put some XCP in escrow. This could prevent someone eat up all sell orders without cost. This solution, however, cannot prevent another kind of manipulation. Say current the lowest sell order is at 0.01. Then I can put a limit buy order 1M XCP @ 0.009999, so that I can ensure nobody can really sell to the bid walls. It seems this kind of attack is arguably less harmful than a big buy orders to eat up all sell orders. Let's think together to see whether there's better solution. Moreover, even checking BTC bandwidth is doable, it cannot prevent the attack. Only put BTC in escrow can avoid this kind of attack completely. Just aggregating some of the ideas above: here is the system I propose. XCP seller options: --xcp-escrow-required-pct, --max-order-lock-time XCP buyer options: --xcp-escrow-provided-pct, --min-expire-time Reasoning for each: The escrow is pretty straightforward. It prevents sweeping of the sellers' order book and also prevents the XCP buyer from getting a free option Max-order-lock-time is different from expiration. It allows sellers to specify how long their order can be locked by a buyer before the escrow is forfeited. Min-expire-time is the buyer analog to max-order-lock-time. It allows the buyer to specify the minimum time he has to do a btcpay. If escrow-provided-pct < escrow-required-pct, the seller can ignore the buyer order. If min-expire-time > min(max-order-lock-time, buyer-time-to-expiration, seller-time-to-expiration), the buyer's order won't be matched. This solves: 1) sweeping of order book problem 2) XCP buyer doesn't get free option 3) XCP seller order won't get locked for a long period of time 4) XCP seller won't be able to hit buyer orders and set low expiration to collect escrowed XCP This doesn't completely solve the problem of the buyer placing a large order wall slightly below the ask, but it does discourage it. A seller could ignore the attacker's order wall if he sets max-order-lock-time below min-expire-time, and if min-expire-time is set too low the seller can just match it and collect the escrowed XCP. EDIT: I forgot to mention the XCP escrow system would completely replace fee_provided and fee_required. This solves MoneyPakTrader's issue of the fees being too high as well as creating demand for XCP. Instead of allowing attackers to set the price for fees required to trade, which negatively impacts honest traders, in this system honest traders only pay the minimum mining fee to trade. Great idea. |
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