I would like to buy 200MSC @0.16 ，please update. Yeah, I'd like to but 200MSC @ 0.11 but reality keeps getting in the way. I am giving you a freaking Christmas gift by selling 200 @ .25. Take it and say 'thank you'. '.16' that was a long time ago. 0.20 is available in mcoin.io as pre fund ask. |
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In one case bitcoin is doomed. If Everyone is like the above post author, who is non believer but bought some BTC, do nothing to promote it and just want someday it will worth millions. They will abandon the ship as soon as some governments ban the bitcoin. Do you think there's any reason for these kind of speculators to be rich overnight?
Fortunately, there's enough true believers there to work every day to bring more features and more applications. Moreover, they are advocating and explaining so more people could have a better understanding.
Bitcoin can only succeed with these people.
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1. IT'S A DECENTRALIZED CURRENCY
Does this even require any explaining? Do you honestly think that the current financial system that controls Trillions of dollars in the current global economy, is going to give up their power to some guy Guatemala because he ran he's 1990's computer the first year of Bitcoin.
Let's all open up our history books and see when the 99% won against the 1%? Almost never, and even when they did “win” it was basically the 1% handing off power to another form, and still running it behind the scenes just to appease the people.
Even if they allowed Bitcoin to become successful, they will regulate it so heavily, that it will pretty much lose any “benefits” that it had, (Europe is preparing to tax and regulate Bitcoin) and pretty much becomes centralized and just like anything else.
The current system will stay in power with centralized control, hence why they will create their own digital fiat currencies replacing their paper, to even gain more control.
regulated == doomed? Many people think otherwise. It's not possible for bitcoin to go mainstream without being regulated.
Moreover, even bitcoin is regulated, you still have much more freedom than fiat or gold. You can carry it everywhere without worrying about being confiscated. Try that with a box of cashes or gold. You will never need to worry about your account is frozen, and when you receive payment you don't need to worry about its fake or it's from an frozen/empty account. You also don't need to worry someone will keep printing a lot of money to dilute your holding. Even if bitcoin becomes more centralized than now, these features will not be changed. Please tell me how these benefits are lost after regulation? 2. CENTRALIZED MAIN DEVELOPMENT
Basically the “official” releases come from the Bitcoin Foundation. The development is pretty much centralized. Even if people fix everything wrong with Bitcoin, the foundation makes the final decision on what to include in it's next version on it's own priorities. This is basically all run by “Gavin” who caused Satoshi to disappear after he decided to meet with the CIA. The same guy who has not addressed any of the issues going to be discussed below for the whole time he has been in control. Whether by accident or on purpose is not the point. The point is the main trusted Bitcoin client is controlled by one entity, and everything they say, do, or don't do goes.
Do you understand open source? The source code is open, so even it's controlled by 'Gavin', everyone can understand what the code does. Moreover, everyone is free to implement its own version as long as it follows the same protocol. The trust is because of the transparency, not blind trust on someone or some organizations/governments.3. FLAWED ARCHITECTURE
Size
11 GB today.
100 GB 1.5 years from now
1 TB 3 years from now
10 TB 4.5 years from now
100 TB 6 years from now
1 PB 7.5 years from now
10 PB 9 years from now
100 PB 10.5 years from now
You think average people will store a 100TB worth of data? No. The solution cut the blockchain into pieces and store the whole blockchain only on specialized nodes, kind of defeats the purpose of decentralized than doesn’t it?
How did you get those data? Completely made up or from some source? It's not a complex problem and we can get the correct value by doing some simple math:
There're around 150 blocks generated a day, and the block size is 1MB, then the block size increases 150MB per day. After 10.5 years, its 10.5 * 365 * 150 = 574 TB. How did you get 100 PB, which is almost 1000 times larger? Moreover, apparently with the block size limit, the block chain size increases linearly, and why you get a exponentially increase?
The block size limit itself may cause some issues, and you pointed out below, but here you have a self-contradiction that assume the block size increases exponentially, which is certainly either lack of analysis or just want to get any data support your argument, no matter it's true or made up.
Some may argue 574 TB is already huge for average users. Yes, it is huge for average users(1) with current disk size (2) and network speed(3). Then 1) average user does not need to download the whole block chain to use bitcoin. 2) imagine how large is the hard disk and how fast the network speed 10 years before, and then imagine how they will be after 10 years? Moreover, for professional users and organizations, download 574 TB and you will have a copy of the bank for all world, isn't it really cool?
Double Spends
Double spends are already occurring, and have occurred since over 1.5 years ago, and it will only get worst as time goes on, and bigger merchants and higher ticket items come online the then you will really see the “bad pool operators” start to take advantage of this.
Nobody is going to double spend on a cup of coffee, nobody is going to commit fraud for small amounts, well at least not in person, but they will for big ticket items.
Apparently you can accept 0 confirmation for a cup of coffee, but at least 6 confirmation or more for big ticket items. It's already a common sense and I really don't know why you put this issue here?Slow Speed
Waiting for a transaction to fully confirm, is not feasible for day to day transactions. Yes let's hear the Credit Cards take 180 day confirms. One no they don't they confirm instantly, the money is just on hold for 90-180 days if the merchant sells a crappy product and refuses to honor warranty or remedy the issue. If it's fraud, say someone uses someone else card to buy something, the money does not come out of the merchants account, the credit card company takes the hit. Secondly, most important the buyer pays and gets his goods immediately, unlike Bitcoin where they have to wait for a few confirmations to be sure.
As you said, no one will double spend on a cup of coffee, so it's pretty feasible for small merchants to accept 0 confirmation policy. For large transactions, do you really think it is too slow to wait 1 hour to confirm 1M dollars of value be transferred from USA to Australia?
Un-Scalable
Bitcoin can barley handle a few hundred thousand transactions a day, what happens if the transactions grow to 10 Million, 50 Million, 100 Million which are all still relativity small transaction numbers compared to the 6 Billion people in the world. It simply can't handle it.
This is valid concern due to the current block size limit. However, let's open our mind and don't think on-chain payment is the only way to pay. Some third party bitcoin 'banks' will certainly emerge and people can open accounts and put a small amount of bitcoin in it. Then they can do daily small transactions instantly and the transactions are off-chain. Yes, I know the Inputs.IO fraud but it does not mean Inputs.IO itself is not a good idea. 51% Attacks
51% attacks which don't have to be 51% of the network, as they can do it with far less hashpower, such as ghash.io 29% the two biggest pools combined make up over 51% of the network and can literally destroy Bitcoin at any second. It doesn't even need to be the pool operators, it can be hackers who take over the pools.
How and why? Unstable Exchange Rate
It can never be used as a sole currency to replace all other fiat currencies. Why? Because it's price is unstable. It must always rely on another fiat currency to have any sort of monetary use, no merchant is going to transact when the price of the currency fluctuates 50-200% a day. The only way to stop this is to have actual control of the currency and adjust creation.
Is gold price also not stable? It increased from $700 to $2000 in just one year. Is it surprise for bitcoin to be volatile in its early stage? 4. NO BENEFIT OVER FIAT
With everything mentioned above it shows that Bitcoin has no real advantage over fiat for 99% of the people in the world. You can't pay your bills or general living expenses in it, can't buy much with it. It's slow, not consumer friendly, as once a payment is sent there is no charge back method. Guess what 90% of the world are consumers not merchants. If Bitcoin doesn't appeal to the regular consumer who buys goods from merchants it will never succeed. Even if it succeeds it's doomed by it's very architecture which can't handle the success.
The only use it has, is sending small internationally pretty quickly, which then again gets converted to fiat for people to actually use. What market is there for small international payments 5-10% of the world?
No entity would trust high sums of money to be transferred with Bitcoin with all of it's flaws. Want to know how right I am and how wrong you are? Bitcoin has about 3 million users in a 5 year period. Facebook in that same time had what? 600M-1 Billion users.
Not to mention by the time, I have opened 10 accounts just to buy and convert Bitcoin, I could have swiped my credit/debit card 1000 times.
You seems missed the main benefits of bitcoin. 1) No one can keep printing money so there's no worry for inflation. 2) No one can confiscated your account. 3) No one can stop you from carrying bitcoin from one place to another place. 4) No one can forbid you to pay a certain address.
You can try to provide a facebook like service and ask people to pay for sending messages. Then how many accounts you will have after 3 or 5 years, if its still alive. This comparison is totally nonsense and even worse than comparing orange and apple. At lease orange and apple are both fruits, right? 5. CONCLUSION
Even if Bitcoin or another crypto currency fixes all of these issues, they are still doomed to fail because of reason #1.
With zero advantages and quite a few disadvantages over fiat, centralized incompetent development, and inhert flaws Bitcoin is doomed. So next time you get excited about Bitcoin growing, and can't wait for it's mass adaption, just know it's own growth is another nail in it's coffin. Bitcoin is digging it's own grave.
Before all the geniuses on this forum come and give your wonderful flawed opinions, and say how wonderful it is, and it's going places, and I am wrong, and Gavin will fix everything, and Bitcoin will take over the world as a currency and payment system. Please refer below to get a reality check:
Bitcoin users in 5 years: 3 Million
Remember none of the issues existed in the previous 4 years, so is it logical to say 'look there're only 3M people after 5 years, so it proves that my reasoning is correct. People just don't want to buy it because of the reasons I listed although none of them make senses then. Can I ask how many people know of bitcoin 1 year ago? [/quote] |
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I spent $15,000 & 10 BTC on a Jupiter 41 days ago.
Am I supposed to keep mining even though I'll be seeing red soon enough?
What are you miners doing to keep your spirits up? I'm seeing my bill go up and my wallet go down right now.
Tumultuous times. I am sure we'll see a bounce back, but the uncertainty makes it hard, especially when I don't exactly have cash to spare...
How are all the big miners handling this downswing?
Down sizing your hash rate?
I think there're only two reasons to justify stop mining: 1) You can sell you mining hardware at BTC amount you think you will never mine in its life span. or 2) Your electricity cost is higher than the price of BTC you mined and you decided to buy them instead. |
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As far as I know, preimage attack is just to find a collision (given h(x) and x, find a y !=x and h(y) = h(x) ) more efficiently than brute force. However, to change block history you have to find a way to only alter a part of inputs and still maintain the same hash, that's not something preimage attack does.
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The answer is arbitrage.
Tell me how you'd do it, please. Buy coins privately and sell them at bit stamp or btce. I cannot do like this bit there're plenty of people can do. |
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A pre-image attack that does not encompass all 64 steps just results in something indistinguishable from the empirical effect of everyone in the world being able to hash faster. I think the second preimage attack is the one that where we should panic because that means an attacker might be able to rewrite the transaction history. A first preimage attack just means mining got easier as you said. No, the attacker cannot rewrite the transaction history because the following reason support the blockchain is ..., A, B, C, ... B includes the hash of A, and C includes the hash of B. The preimage attach you mean is to find a B' having a same hash value included in C. However, remember that B' has in the same time to satisfy a lot of constrains: it has to include hash(A), it has to have correct format, and it has to include some transactions beneficial to the attacker  Therefore, to be a successful attack, it is not enough to find a hash(B') == hash(B). You can only modify a small part of B to get a hash(B') == hash(B), that will be much much more difficult than ordinary preimage attack. |
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Hi virtualspace,
will you PM people who joined complaint and give us list of what Lawyer requires from us?
will he need proof of shares bought at BTC.TC or is information from cryptostocks enough?
Will be needing csv files of trades etc..?
I have csv files that I downloaded from BTC.TC, but if anyone who hasn't, are they still available from BTC.TC?
Is burnside of BTC.TC assisting lawyer or is lawyer contacting him?
Is cryptostocks also assisting?
Is there anything else we should be preparing before we get contacted and have to submit info to lawyer?
Answer what you can in public forum otherwise could you send everyone PM (email) relevant information to prepare?
Thanks,
merv77
I will send a email to the lawyer and ask him if he has any information about what is needed for the complaint, but he is still working on the part of the complaint that focuses on getting the police interested in pursuing the case, and starting the investigation in to this fraud. There is a lot of information to go through and I expect this to take some time to do, after that he can focus on how possible salvaged funds would be distributed and how to calculate the amount that everyone would get. I also have the csv files that I downloaded from BTC.TC, but I know that not every one have them. Burnside said that he would help with the complaint and I'm sure he can get the information from his data storage if needed. I sent Burnside a email Dec 9 and asked how the information he said he would provide is coming along, I have not yet got any reply to my question. We have contacted him again and are waiting for his reply. We are also looking looking into the possibility to compel him to release the information via order from the Gov't where he resides, as this was his first answer to me about releasing any information about Labcoin, in a email I sent him Oct 23. Cryptostocks admin has also agreed to help with the complaint and he also has all information regarding Labcoin on his servers. I can't think of any thing that you could do to prepare for the complaint, other than be patient and wait for us to get the complaint ready. I will PM everyone that has joined the complaint with the information that the lawyer needs and how to contact him when the time comes. TheSwede75 has failed to contact me or any other member from LCSH, I am personally starting to believe that he has some part of this fraud, and if it comes to a vote, I vote for him to be a suspect accomplice in this fraud, and would be presented as that in the complaint against Labcoin. I have not followed TheSwedes75 actions and if or how he has replyed to his part of the Labcoin fraud, so I could be wrong but I find it interesting that he can not find the time to write some messages about his actions regarding Labcoin. I'm also starting to believe that his name is not Daniel Larsson as presented on the btct.co/security/LABCOIN page, so if any of you have some information about TheSwede75 or like to do some research on him pleas PM me. PS. Good work E.Sam on the Cryptostocks thread Please also consider adding Howard Wang into your list. Either he should be included into the fraud list, or he can be the witness. |
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Every exchange is now following the movements of this one exchange which is seeing liquidity cutoffs, government action, a reducing order book, and a reducing volume, and has led us to 3 crashes this month (in a downtrend) - who knows what their government will put of of their ass next. Yet all the exchanges still follow it move by move and tonight it does something and every goes 'yay rally time to the moon'. I dont get it.
The answer is arbitrage. |
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Please stop spreading your nonsense. Most Chinese people suffered from this more than you. |
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Use www.masterxchange.com if you want to buy and sell bitcoins for now. If you want to buy more than 50msc, pm me. Trading fee and withdrawing fee are seems pretty high. |
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The movement originated on btcchina. How do you feel about this?
Maybe the answer to this is coming soon........ BTC China told CoinDesk it is expecting to reinstate deposits in RMB soon. Bobby Lee said he is now working with another third party payment company to try and reinstate RMB pricing, and is hoping to make an announcement on the Weibo account in the next few hours.
This will now be the firm’s third payment provider relationship inside a week. Lee brushed off worries that the new relationship could also be placed in jeopardy by PBOC’s most recent move.
“If this keeps happening, ten times later, will I keep going? I don’t know. I can’t predict the future. But for now we’re going to try one more time, to see,” he said.http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-falls-btc-china-exchange-shuts-fiat-deposits/I don't like his response. This sounds not serious enough from a CEO. He should find a reliable way to enable depositing or just close it instead. |
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For those have not known yet:
"Dear BTC China valued customer: Due to new government regulations, BTC China will temporarily suspend CNY deposits. BTC deposits/withdrawals and CNY withdrawals are not affected, and will continue to operate in the interim. Rest assure that BTC China will continue to operate normally. Please pay attention to our notices for updates, as we find other ways to allow for CNY deposits. We deeply apologize for any inconvenience. BTC China, December 18, 2013"
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Sold at 900, bought at 450. Doubled my coins again.
How big is your stash? It's quite different to double 100+ or 1000+ coins than 10. Last time he doubled from 2 to 4, now he has 8 BTC. |
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Good for you if you made a profit playing the market. But most people who do that lose. Holding over 6 months or more is as safe a strategy as they come, and gives better ROI than anything else currently available.
Holding 6 months from 32 in June 2011 gave you a ROI of -94%.  Holding 6 months and then sell does not count as Buy and Hold. Holding it until now counts, and its ROI is more than 20000%. |
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I don't think that it can happen in the near future. The problem is people are just greedy as hell. If you buy Bitcoin for $1000 and it goes up to $2000, I think most will simply take profits. In my opinion, there will have to be many resistance points broken to ever see $10,000.
Then the one bought at $2000 will sell at $4000, and the one bought at $4000 will sell at $8000. It does not matter how many people sell as long as there are more and more capital enters. |
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First, the distance between 41 steps to 64 steps are huge enough to say its useless to break the first 41 steps. Second, mining is not to find an arbitrary input value to satisfy a specific hash value. In mining, some parts of the input value are determined and the hash value is not determined (it just needs to be smaller than a certain value). The probability for the value you found happens to include the correct block header is almost zero. Therefore, I don't think preimage attack will affect mining speed that much. |
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Let me try to summarize what OP have said:
FUD 1: OP claimed that China banned exchanges.
Truth: Bank transfer to and from exchanges are working perfectly; BTCChina and OKCoin are still doing the business happily.
FUD 2: OP claimed that China's central bank has made an announcement today.
Truth: OP cannot provide anything about it but just the Dec 5 announcement, and later claims the announcement will come out in a few days.
FUD 3: OP claimed that all Chinese Bitcoin exchanges will close their business in a month.
Truth: OP just keep saying that without any evidence. Just a friendly reminder, I am a fortune teller, and I know OP will face a disaster in a month. Sorry, can't tell you the details, but you will see it very soon.
1 and 3 are FUD, but 2 is true. It is true that third-part payment services are no longer allowed to serve BTC exchanges. There's an internal meeting without public announcement, but it has been reported in multiple serious media already. |
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If you were a true believer, why not celebrate when the price goes down?
It seems most people here are just like those speculators whom they claim they hate.
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All these are true, but they just mean 3rd party payment services are not allowed to serve BTC exchanges. There's no news about whether bank service is allowed or not yet, let alone whether exchanges will be closed or not. Keep that facts as they are, and do not give false interpretation. |
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