Definite YES.
You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.
SO BUY A FUCKING MINER. "It's not MY responsibility to secure the network, but I'm going to whine about those who stepped up" lol, not sure if serious. So in order to hold Bitcoin and have influence in the network, I should go ahead and spend more money to buy a electricity wasting, heat+noise generating machine. Then waste more electricity. or you know, SWITCH TO FUCKING PROOF OF STAKE, and Bitcoin stakeholders will always have 100% control of the network, instead of relying on profit crazy miners, who probably don't hold any Bitcoin, and only dump Bitcoin as soon as they get it. Plus, mother nature will thank you, since no electricity is wasted with Proof of Stake. |
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Definite YES.
You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.
Large mining farms all over the world are only heavily invested in hardware to do exact the same thing. It's not only China. Changing something that Satoshi have created with a purpose is not a great idea. Oh yes, the almighty Satoshi can do no wrong? Then why the hell are we paying the core devs for? let's just keep using the version of Satoshi Client from day one. All the changes to Satoshi's code is not a great idea? What does it matter where the miner is? my point is still valid, why are you letting profit crazy miners at who knows where, control the Bitcoin network, but you the owner and stakeholder of some Bitcoins, have ZERO influence in the Bitcoin network. |
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Definite YES.
You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.
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price decreasing and difficulty increasing
this is the world turned over
Some state-owned chinese companies are using bitcoin farms to convert their free electricity into fiat money  That's exactly the problem with PoW, it's value extracted from current Bitcoin holders, just by expending electricity. Basically current Bitcoin holders is spending $500k dollar per day, just to buy electricity that is useless, wasted and unneeded. Wasteful PoW mining can be easily replaced with a Proof of Stake system. You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. |
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Because Bitshares is not even a year old, and doesn't have a 4B marketcap yet, so price movements are pretty meaningless. Someone with a million dollars, could move Bitshares price up 20% in a day if they wanted. They can't possibly do that with Bitcoin with same amount of money. Also, not sure if you noticed, the only other major PoW altcoin -> Litecoin, has fallen off the cliff, losing 40% of their marketcap since my post. I believe this is the fate of PoW Bitcoin, in the next 2-3 years probably. Though Bitcoin may still rise due to external factors, such as ETF, major acceptance etc... But if without new money perpetually coming in, Bitcoin PoW will eventually share the similar fate as Litecoin. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2r77td/lets_talk_about_the_price/It's funny to see everyone asking "why the price is constantly dropping". While the answer is right in front of them. Bitcoin price went down $70 since I made this post thread. Without significant new money to offset PoW mining expense, all Bitcoin holders are basically screwed and pays the mining tax perpetually. If this is true than what has Bitshares fallen to Bitcoin(DPoS coin you are promoting)? You started this thread on Sept 5 2014 and look at how much Bitshares has dropped compared to Bitcoin(Price and market cap):  Do you acknowledge this ? Why do you think Bitshares is dropping being that PoW is so wasteful compared to DPoS? |
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http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2r77td/lets_talk_about_the_price/It's funny to see everyone asking "why the price is constantly dropping". While the answer is right in front of them. Bitcoin price went down $70 since I made this post. Without significant new money to offset PoW mining expense, all Bitcoin holders are basically screwed and pays the mining tax perpetually.
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In the end the truth is bitcoin is consuming 10% of its market cap each year (500 million $) to mantain a decentralized (not so decentralized lately) ledger. 10% a year today, 6 % in 2016, 5% in 2017, 3% in 2019, and 0.5% in 2026. you can just buy all the NXT you can for the current extra cheap price, sit on them and enjoy all the benefits of a natural steady deflation which increases your purchasing power.  That something I like about Nxt. Bitcoin is Disinflationary, while nxt has no inflation besides the ICO. This may be its undoing though because distribution wasn't the best initially. The nxt currency isn't deflationary in of itself .... are there any true deflationary currencies in existence? (I am not talking about deflationary in reference to minting vs adoption) The 10% will not decrease, as shown by the last halving. If it decreased to 0.5% in 2026, then it will only cost 0.5% to attack the Bitcoin network, which is laughable as security. |
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...save the little left that you invested?
Or are you going to buy more?
The more it goes down, the more I buy. If it goes to $100, I'll buy even more. If it goes to $10, I'll buy even more. If it goes to $1, I'll buy even more. I suppose I could watch all my value evaporate and the whole experiment could fail and disappear, but I'll ride it all the way down to the end. If it ever gets to the point where I can buy 1,000 BTC per $1, I'll just buy up all the available bitcoins and own it all! That sounded kinda crazy, if you buy it all, then it would have no value, since no one else would be using it. |
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So get busy marketing Bitcoin to new money if you want price to turn around. Bitcoin needs an endless supply of new money to keep the price up. Interestingly, merchant adoption is now viewed as a negative for the price of Bitcoin. It discourages "HODLing". Yet without Bitcoin being used as a medium of exchange, what's the point? Bitcoin doesn't generate any income. The real drivers for the use of Bitcoin turned out to be uses that got around some governmental restriction. Silk Road drove the first bubble, and China's exchange controls drove the second. Crackdowns on both of those were successful, and those bubbles popped. That's where we are now. Where's the upside potential? (And none of that "civilization is going to collapse and only Bitcoin will be valuable" crap. Not helping.) That is correct, as long as PoW mining exists in Bitcoin, new money is needed every year to keep the price from falling. This is because Proof of Work is actually "security by burning", it burns 10% of Bitcoin marketcap every year, and obtains security, because to attack Bitcoin, the attacker would also have to burn a similar amount of fiat value to have any hope of successful attack. Of course there's a much more elegant way of having security at no cost, that is Proof of Stake, it is nearly impossible for even a determined attacker to obtain 51% in a PoS system. But I'm afraid Bitcoin is too far along the PoW path to adopt the better way. |
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The price can NEVER turn around, UNLESS annual new money inflow exceeds 10% of Bitcoin marketcap in fiat value. Because PoW mining burns 10% marketcap every year.
So get busy marketing Bitcoin to new money if you want price to turn around.
You realize how small the bitcoin economy still is right? It's very easy to increase over 10% annually. Add to that supply will halve again soon. Maybe a slow downtrend can be maintained in this bear zoo until the next halving. That is true, the only reason I'm still an investor in Bitcoin is because what you said, specifically the hope that there are still significant new money that will flow in. Nowadays I only invest in cryptos that are based on Proof of Stake. Bitcoin is the only PoW based crypto investment I have. |
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The price can NEVER turn around, UNLESS annual new money inflow exceeds 10% of Bitcoin marketcap in fiat value. Because PoW mining burns 10% marketcap every year.
So get busy marketing Bitcoin to new money if you want price to turn around.
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...
There is no tax, just a distribution of coins. If 10% of new coins being emitted per year, then rougly the same amount of money will be spent mining them. The same goes for 5%, 2% of the market cap and so on. Money in, money out - no tax!
Call it "service fee" or "inflation," call it whatever you want, but ~10% of Bitcoin's market cap will be spent every year to maintain current level of security. For now inflation is footing the bill, but once block reward halves, either security will suffer, or tx fees go way up. If Bitcoin stays relevant in the future there will always be a competition for "conquering" its algorithm. I can't say whether it will cost 10% of its market cap or not. But I can say for sure that those engaging in this voluntary competition will be getting something out of it - be it profit in the form of transaction fees or some other agendas. The algorithm really doesn't care about people's nationality, political or religious views, their skin or eye color. It simply says "here I am out in the open, make me run faster and you win!". We have already gone through one halving and the network survived without suffering any security loss. For users the inflation is predictable and declining over time, miners get what they are after as their engagement is voluntary. So there is really no cost or "tax" associated with running the network because you get what you pay for. If there is a better way to organize a neutral global money system, we should have it penned here and get a nobel prize in economics. FYI there is a better way, it's called Proof of Stake mining, it's working for a variety of altcoins, they have all avoided the inevitable downfall of PoW systems (expensive + low security). |
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When distribution ends the network is still guarded by an algorithm, this is the only way to keep money away from politics.
No, the network is guarded by how expensive it is to attack it. Algorithm alone does nothing, there's a ton of altcoin got attacked to death, and they uses the exact same algorithm as Bitcoin. The past 5 years has shown, the natural equilibrium is reached with an annual PoW mining expense of 10% fiat value of Bitcoin market cap. Therefore, investors/stakeholders of Bitcoin will pay a 10% tax in fiat value on their Bitcoin holdings, perpetually. Now of course there are other factors affecting the price, such as new money coming in, or existing money leaving the eco-system. It's up to the investor/stakeholder to decide whether inflow of new money will offset the 10% mining tax. |
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2009-2013 has all been good years, precisely because all the new money coming in, plus Bitcoin marketcap was tiny back then, so the 10% of something tiny, is still tiny, new money easily overwhelmed the 10% PoW mining tax.
At the end of 2013, Bitcoin marketcap went up big time. Now 10% is not so tiny, it's a pretty large amount of money. Therefore 2014 new money was not able to balance out the 10% PoW mining tax, and we are seeing Bitcoin going down in value.
Why would you call emission rate a tax? When the block reward was 50 coins the inflation was higher than 10% per year, it gets lower and lower with every new halving. Bitcoin was designed to distribute coins over the course of several decades on a permission-less basis. All coins (before they are mined) are guarded by an algorithm, as opposed to any form of private money (including fiat) guarded by a group of people. It might be cheaper to maintain an electronic money system, where people are at the center of its security model, but you will get all the downsides of that as well. It has nothing to do with inflation rate, the 10% expense is on the USD value of the market cap. If the PoW mining expense had anything to do with coin distribution, then what happens when coins are all distributed? Bitcoin network suddenly has no hash rates? |
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I understand the initial get rich quick phase is now over... I am a true believer that good things comes to those that wait. I don't mind waiting a year or two and let me mining machines keep plodding away and then cash out when things get a little better... but as i keep seeing more and more big firms taking on the payment of bitcoin it feels me with more and more hope that this will in the first or second quarter of 2015...
Does anyone else agree with me on this one?
I have a feeling there are still A LOT of speculators messing around keeping the price suppressed or over valued. TBH I am not sure which one. I use bitcoin soo.. the price can do w/e. That's true, price can be at any level, and won't affect actual Bitcoin functionality. But investors in Bitcoin itself WILL be screwed as long as Bitcoin uses PoW, because PoW will destroy 10% of Bitcoin total marketcap every year, therefore any investors holding Bitcoin will lose 10% every year, guaranteed. The only savior will be new money coming into the Bitcoin eco-system, if there's no new money, then investors in Bitcoin will experience a perpetual downward spiral. Sounds great. Probably sounded great in 2011 and 2012 and 2013 and.. you get the idea. You may have a point a few years down the line but certainly not now. 2009-2013 has all been good years, precisely because all the new money coming in, plus Bitcoin marketcap was tiny back then, so the 10% of something tiny, is still tiny, new money easily overwhelmed the 10% PoW mining tax. At the end of 2013, Bitcoin marketcap went up big time. Now 10% is not so tiny, it's a pretty large amount of money. Therefore 2014 new money was not able to balance out the 10% PoW mining tax, and we are seeing Bitcoin going down in value. |
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I understand the initial get rich quick phase is now over... I am a true believer that good things comes to those that wait. I don't mind waiting a year or two and let me mining machines keep plodding away and then cash out when things get a little better... but as i keep seeing more and more big firms taking on the payment of bitcoin it feels me with more and more hope that this will in the first or second quarter of 2015...
Does anyone else agree with me on this one?
I have a feeling there are still A LOT of speculators messing around keeping the price suppressed or over valued. TBH I am not sure which one. I use bitcoin soo.. the price can do w/e. That's true, price can be at any level, and won't affect actual Bitcoin functionality. But investors in Bitcoin itself WILL be screwed as long as Bitcoin uses PoW, because PoW will destroy 10% of Bitcoin total marketcap every year, therefore any investors holding Bitcoin will lose 10% every year, guaranteed. The only savior will be new money coming into the Bitcoin eco-system, if there's no new money, then investors in Bitcoin will experience a perpetual downward spiral. |
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Not sure if they are allowed to treat credit card customer's differently, there must be some policy that says you can't charge extra if your customer is paying by credit cards.
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Ripple is all premined , bitcoin is not premined  . You're telling me that ripple is betterh than btc ? I think you're wrong. Actually it wasn't pre mined at all - it's not POW so how can it have been mined? Premined means a POW client which wasn't released to the public until the creator(s) had personally used the closed client to mine the first bunch of coins for themselves. Wrong, Proof of Stake mining is a thing. It doesn't have to be PoW. |
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Nobody will hire you with no feedback on Odesk. That's my point. Nobody will buy from you on ebay with low feedback. Etc.
That's completely false, I have actually used both ebay and Odesk as seller of product/service, both starting from 0 feedback, and easily sold my product/service. Sure the profit/price was lower in the beginning while I'm establishing my reputation, but it's false to say "nobody" will buy from you when you have 0 feedback. |
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uh oh.... now they have enough info for your tax authorities. Better claim your tax truthfully now or you're fcked.
Remember 2 things you cant never avoid in life: death and tax.
lol, BTER is 100% in China, they wouldn't know where to report to. China doesn't have capital gains tax. |
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