crypotounicornrider Date Registered: 12-10-2018
tarm0888 Date Registered: 12-10-2018
come on guys....
Hi cryptohunter, First, my aim is not to offend you or to disrespect you. You have logical arguments and you have been here since the beginning and I respect that. Nevertheless, I believe that your exclusive focus on investors and speculators doesn't serve the Byteball platform cause. Worst, it's fuel for pessimists and trolls. In plus, you don't give any real consideration to Byteball platform aims : Wide adoption and real world adoption. Grossly translated, that means first mister and miss everybody and secondly the industrial, financial and retail sector even if these target groups are complementary. These groups don't care about CC markets even if financial sector could monitor it from a remote perspective. In my opinion, investors/speculators/BTC holders were useful as a kick-starter. But now, the snowball effect doesn't need them to grow the network. I was a Byteball BitcoinTalk thread's silent reader since January 2017. To improve my understanding of the Byteball platform, I decide to share my poor knowledge with users. Barborrico used it nicely. And I noticed that Tarmo888 subscribed the same day than myself. Two possibilities, it's a coincidence or, more egocentric, I motivate him to act :-) Only Tarmo888 can answer to it. And I guarantee you that we are two different persons even if we have common aims. He's a lion. He spends a lot of energy trying to sanitize the Byteball BitcoinTalk thread of pessimist people. And he's doing an important job because this thread should be used to inform and help the Byteball community, not to spread pessimism. Btw, I call this kind of behaviors insider trading. In my opinion, BitcoinTalk threads are focus on the CC market community (your target). So, I prefer focus myself on other targets. Maybe have you read some of my articles like Byteball : A pizza for two generals or Byteball : An Unstoppable Financial Revolution ;-) I sincerely hope you'll stop to fuel pessimists and trolls. And that you review your positions about how relevant is wide adoption and real world adoption. And I don't think that Anton Churyumov is naive. In fact, he has a master plan in mind since the beginning. But it's my personal opinion. Pleasure to read you again. I 100% agree what crypotounicornrider said, but that could be because crypotounicornrider and tarmo888 could be the same person. I guess you will never know because that what is the disadvantage of anonymous platforms. You don't know how many actual people are behind usernames, same way you can't tell how many actual people are behind Bitcoin addresses. But wait, there is more, maybe this person who is behind these 2 accounts that agree with each other, is also behind account that is total opposite and the motivation to do this to prove why anonymous witnesses is bad idea. Thul Date Registered: 11-10-2018What if it's another alter-ego of the same person: * Thul is against KYC, I am pro-KYC. * Thul likes blackbytes, I don't give sh|t about blackbytes (I don't have any either, never had). * Thul thinks that Bitcoin airdrop was good idea, i think it was bad idea. * Thul thinks random anonymous witnesses are good idea, i think it is worse idea ever. Also, Thul is Luht backwards. Luht is common Estonian familyname and means "meadow that gets flooded" (also very common thing to happen in Estonia and Finland). Guess what is also popular is Estonia and Finland. Yeah, Tarmo means energy/power in Finnish and is firstname in Finland and Estonia. Did anybody also noticed my other fun facts about Estonian and Finnish language? Also, Pineapple Express IS NOT me, but he has been a great inspiration because of his split-personality. |
|
|
|
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0. If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable. It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job. a lot of coins or project will disappear. but I hope byteball wont be one of these. the byteball is highly ambitious project that hold vast promise. Coins that disappeared during last big bear market (after 2014) were mostly forks of Bitcoin that had slight configuration differences (kind of like ERC20 tokens now). Those remained that were different and/or had dedicated teams to support those coins (Litecoin, XRP, Dogecoin). I listened some podcast recently where some fork author just gave up because lost interest and didn't have resources to maintain the fork. Bear market is also great time to come up with something new (Ethereum) and be productive because everybody gets distracted when price is going up during bull market, but there is high chance that many new cryptocurrencies that launched their ICOs just on whitepapers and haven't created any working product by now, won't be able to create anything valuable for next bull-run either. Byteball is working on creating the foundation, which has the reserves for development and maintenance and Byteball also has dedicated team. https://medium.com/byteball/the-future-of-byteball-the-byteball-foundation-cca9d495bf46 |
|
|
|
I am not worried about state-regulated cryptocurrencies, if anything, they will just bring more adoption to other cryptocurrencies. Problem at the moment with public sector is that in every country (there are very few exceptions), they have weaker IT than private sector. This is because public sector needs to hire private sector to build them stuff they need and the one who offers the smallest price wins the job (tender). This means that public sector doesn't always get the best quality out there and they are always years behind. Years behind in blockchain technology is not competitive at all. That happens even when public sector hires private sector with service level agreement (SLA) to maintain some systems. So, I guess first state-regulated cryptocurrencies will be forks of some existing cryptocurrencies or even tokens on some other platforms where they have option to freeze accounts and reverse transactions (maybe XRP, XLM, EOS). They could fork any other cryptocurrency and change them to their needs, but they will fall back in time as rest of the world progresses. Everybody hates public sector IT solutions (or lack of them) for a reason, they are in stone age compared to private sector. |
|
|
|
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0. If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable. It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job. |
|
|
|
anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users the coin is a shitcoin. Who will want to be a witness of shitcoin?
You are contradicting yourself too, if there is no holders then who were those Bitcoin holders who got 65% of all bytes? If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity. The problem is there is too many holders and not enough actual users. More speculators won't add any users because speculation happens on centralized exchanges and only exchanges benefit from speculators. There are some use cases and there are some users (500-1000). |
|
|
|
What can they force those witnesses to do?
Convince all of them to censor some specific transactions? 20 years of jail Even if they manage to convince 7 witnesses to do something that specific, all of those 7 witnesses will be replaced with hard-fork. good luck finding people who want to spend the rest of their days in prison With that Liberty Reserve example, you are missing the key point, they got busted because of money laundering, the same way how exchanges that doesn't require KYC will get busted with money laundering (or no bank will not accept them if they haven't done it). Byteball witnesses have nothing to do with fiat currencies and bots that accept credit cards also do KYC. You can be right, but cannot guarantee it. Decentralized, trustless systems are good because they create a situation in which malicious behavior causes losses, while following the rules makes a profit. Thus, the system remains protected even if each of its participants ready to become malicious. Your model say "Government won't do any harm because i believe they won't do any harm". In a crypto community, it is customary to trust systems based on economic initiatives and not on hopes. Imagine situation. Satoshi, Ross Ulbricht, Mark Karpeles, Roger Ver and 8 other well known people are witnesses of Bitcoin. FBI arrest Ross, shut down SilkRoad. Do you really belive rest of witnesses will not be arrested? Ross Ulbricht was not arrested because of Bitcoin, not even through Bitcoin. He was charged with drug trafficing, Mark Karpeles was charged with embezzlement. Roger Ver has convicted because of explosives. "Cannot guarantee it" is not how governments work, you need to be convicted because of some law. Goal of Byteball witnesses is to have them around the world, so even if one gets arrested for something Byteball unrelated crime, they could be replaced. But if they are already in trouble with law then obviously they are not a good candidate for witness either, hence why they need to be public. |
|
|
|
What can they force those witnesses to do?
Convince all of them to censor some specific transactions? 20 years of jail Even if they manage to convince 7 witnesses to do something that specific, all of those 7 witnesses will be replaced with hard-fork. good luck finding people who want to spend the rest of their days in prison With that Liberty Reserve example, you are missing the key point, they got busted because of money laundering, the same way how exchanges that doesn't require KYC will get busted with money laundering (or no bank will not accept them if they haven't done it). Byteball witnesses have nothing to do with fiat currencies and bots that accept credit cards also do KYC. |
|
|
|
Hehe, I can already see the first reputable witnesses leaving the bite ball ship as soon as the trade in drugs and weapons increases, the blackmail potential of crypto currencies first becomes known to a wider public, and the state's security organs are terrified. When, in the course of this, the media strike a big blow: "Strawberries, oranges, pears are prepared with needles. In the last two weeks alone, 23 deaths have occurred. Global blackmail gang demands 100 million USD to be paid in a crypto currency of a project called Byteball."The publicly known witnesses then come into the focus of an enraged mob. Threats... maybe even lynchings... Have fun in the bite ball echo chamber.  Go on, why stopped? What will happen next? What can they force those witnesses to do? Convince all of them to censor some specific transactions? Even if they manage to convince 7 witnesses to do something that specific, all of those 7 witnesses will be replaced with hard-fork. Or you expect some witness will give up their position because of the pressure? They will be replaced by Byteball users. By that time there will be plenty of witnesses to choose, or you think no new witnesses will stand up for that position then? Maybe here is your answer why nobody cares about Byteball + BISQ + OpenBazaar. |
|
|
|
balls sell off
Everything is on sale! |
|
|
|
@Random String Symphony
In fact, I understand very little from the technical point of view, and thus I share the state of knowledge with the masses.
What interests me as a layman:
What happens if all witnesses are shut down by state agreements and the further operation of such witnesses is made illegal internationally?
What consequences does such a scenario have for an inexperienced user of the bite ball wallet who does not read along here in the forum or on Slack or obtain information elsewhere?
You don't understand how technically things work, yet you feel that people who do understand should take your opinions seriously? |
|
|
|
It's quite a bit different than Bitcoin as I'm sure you're aware, considering one Russian guy is in control of the entire network, but that's not really what I was alluding to in terms of it being a potentially worthwhile venture for Russian intelligence.
Let's say they spent a few hundred thousand USD funding byteball and getting it off the ground. Now they get thousands of bitcoin users linking their coins to get bytes, followed by real name attestation of thousands of users, as well as steem attestation of users. For people that did all three, the Russian intelligence (or at the very least Tony) can tie together the real name, Bitcoin holdings, and political proclivities of thousands of people. Don't you think political operatives or tax authorities or police state might find this information useful? Even if it's not an intelligence operation, doesn't it make you somewhat squeamish that Tony could sell this information to Cambridge analytica or its ilk?
Yes, there's a meme about maybe the CIA launched Bitcoin, but it's not nearly such a straight line as this, and Satoshi never asked for your drivers license and a selfie.
Sorry for the whining. Carry on berating bag holders...
None of these attestations are required in order do use Byteball and you don't even have to do it from same devices and for same addresses. Point of KYC is exactly that, do link your address to a person, so if you are fine with that, there is should be a problem, but if you take any service as a potentially a one who could sell it to Cambridge Analytica then just don't insert info that you are not comfortable with. |
|
|
|
Byteball gets a shout out by US army: http://madsciblog.tradoc.army.mil/tag/byteball/Not really in a positive way, but interesting that they found it it even noteworthy. The article they cite is in Russian, but from the title suggests byteball is under Russian government control. If you think about it, take the assumption that byteball was funded by Russian intelligence, it was probably a worthwhile venture that collected valuable information and has probably paid for itself many times over. When Putin for next "decentralized" witness?  Do you just love to spread FUD or do you actually think though anything at all? And what is that valuable information that the intelligence could be collecting via Byteball that they couldn't get through other means? Russia laundered $20.8 billion through European banks between 2011 and 2014. Just between 2005-2012, Russia laundered $234 billion through single Danske Bank branch in Estonia. Byteball market cap is under $30 million. So, does it make any sense for money laundering or funding secret projects? NO. Cryptocurrency exchanges don't let you move more than $10 thousand without KYC. You can send from address to address, but you can't take out, which makes money laundering useless with cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies are not great for money laundering, even when we are finally able to pay all our everyday purchases with them. Also, I haven't used myself, but didn't blackbytes work so that it is really difficult to do big payments? |
|
|
|
Thul, why are you here? And why are you so butthurt? Sell your bytes and go buy Monero or Zcash. Your whining is not helping anybody. |
|
|
|
It was one of the most promising projects that I considered as an investment, but alas, something went wrong and the project, or rather its price, was blown away.
What went wrong was that some people started sabotaging their own investment and talk shit about it. Everybody acts differently under pressure and it can mess you up pretty good if you enter ATH and see it drop over 90%. Same with people who got Bitcoin at $18k, they swear they never touch cryptocurrencies again because they lost their life savings. Only difference is that Bitcoin is so much bigger than Byteball, so if somebody did a bad investment choice with altcoin then it is heard lot louder. But it is kind of human nature to FOMO when the price goes up and invest ATH and then panic-SELL when the price is down. For successful investing, you need to act against the human nature and buy when it is low (now) and sell ATH. People who can't change that behavior, I would suggest them to try to build their own index-fund with TOP10 cryptocurrencies (stay away from altcoins) and then do portfolio balancing, but that is not sexy because gains are lot lower that investing into lower altcoins (basically, lottery). |
|
|
|
Will it be fair distribution if most of the remaining funds will be distributed among steem accounts?
Tony steem investor or what? Why byterbal community should pay advertising of this abandoned shiftboard? What do we get in return other than an endless dump?
Why we can't spend balls on advertising for bytebal?
Where the stats? How you can say that bitcoin airdrop was uneffective if you even don't have a stats of steem airdrop?
Are you wash balls? How we can know that Tony and ko did not create millions of steem accounts and now you just steal the remaining balls?
Before spreading FUD, did you even try to calculate how many Steem users need to attest before the distribution fund runs out. Because you think Byteball created millions of Steem users itself, I guess it shows that you have done 0 research on this topic. I did and it was around 1 million users in case the the price doesn't change and in case nothing gets distributed anywhere else. Steem attestation is not the only distribution at the moment and you can't create new spam users because users that are eligible for the reward need be registered long time ago and by now the reputation threshold is at 45 for $10 reward https://github.com/byteball/steem-attestation/blob/master/conf.jsWhere are the stats? https://byteball.co/attestorshttp://transition.byteball.orghttps://wcg.report/https://explorer.byteball.org/So, it is not endless dump, stop spreading FUD! Before coming up with another FUD story, make sure you understand the numbers. It's really easy to think there is fraud if you haven't even done the attestation and don't know when exactly the reward is given out. Ability to read the open-source code also helps. |
|
|
|
You can only attest single-address wallet, so you can't attest your multisig wallet because it is not single-address. Are you 100% sure about that? If I create a new wallet inside the app and i select the option for creating a multisig wallet I still am allowed to check also the option to make it a single address wallet. So shouldn't that allow that single address multisig wallet to be used for the Jumio attestation? This is an important question because if this is possible then: 1. You can prove your identity when necessary regardless of where you are and which of your devices you are using since you have a multisig wallet. 2. With a multisig wallet you enjoy a higher protection against losing your attested wallet due to hardware failure etc. Finally: if attestations are saved in the private profile inside your app, does that somehow affect your privacy if you are using not attested wallets and you DON'T want to reveal your identity? I guess the answer is no, but this is something we should really be sure about. You are right, I totally missed that, there is indeed option like that. I have not tried it with multisig, maybe it prompts your other wallet too, so you could save the private profile, if not then the private profile is only in device that communicated with the bot. EDIT: private profile is stored only in one device at the moment. You are revealing your identity only when you want to reveal by selecting "..." button from chat, clicking "insert private profile" and choosing, which values you want to share  |
|
|
|
I'm interested in getting into the identity verification issue, so as to be able to send vouchers to friends. However, there are a few things I'd like to understand first on that topic. This is the medium post which has introduced the subject in January 2018: https://medium.com/byteball/bringing-identity-to-crypto-b35964feee8eSomeone below the article is asking : "Can I have several accounts with the same identity?" and the answer is "yes". But I didn't understand exactly how that would work. Let's say I'd like to create a wallet with a "public" profile, ie linked to my identity, in the app on my laptop. Later I'd decide to "extend" my identity also to a wallet I'm having on my mobile phone and/or to a multisig wallet on my PCs. How exactly would I have to do? And another question: If I'm creating a wallet with little funds inside an app where is already another (main) wallet of mine with all my funds (which for obvious reasons I'd like to keep private) - would it be possible to connect my identity just to the wallet with the little funds while keeping full privacy over the other wallet(s) which are in the same app? If yes, what should I especially pay attention to? If the bot asks you do share your private profile from your wallet (that's where your data is saved, there is no public profile, DAG only has hash), you can share any data from your private profile with that bot and the bot can verify if the Real Name Attestor has posted a hash about it, so the data is not manipulated. Attested addresses need to be single-address wallets, so I think you can create as many single-address wallets on as many devices and attest them again, I haven't tried it though. Probably not great to have all your funds on single-address wallet, which is created by default as a first wallet since this January. You get little bit more privacy if you have your funds on wallets that are not single-address wallets (wallets that generate new change addresses). If you move the funds out of that single-address wallet and then attest it publicly (email or steem attestation) then it will be visible that address with your email or steem username once had that many bytes, but they need to do lot more to find out, which change addresses it has moved in your other wallet. With email and steem attestation, you have also option to do the private attestation, but then you won't get the features that let's others use them as aliases to your Byteball address. You can always later go from private to public (except real name attestation), but not other way. Thanks for your answer. Still not everything is clear to me. I know nothing about the "steem attestation" so I don't understand how this fits with the theme and half of your explanation makes therefore no sense to me. My question which went unanswered is what "Can I have several accounts with the same identity?" and the answer is "yes". " exactly means. Do you have to perform a new KYC (at a $8 cost) for every new address you create or is it possible to apply an already made KYC also to new addresses? I'm asking because I'd probably want to have an attested address being a multisig address, but in this moment I have no access to all my devices so if'd undergo the KYC now I would have to apply it only to one non-multisig address. I'm happy that Byteball is seeking mass adoption but I can assure you that it is still damned complicated to sort such things out (and I'm no latecomer in this field) and both a simple way to do such things and clear set of explanation and tutoriar are totally missing. Still only a business for nerds, sorry I have to say that. I am guessing, it depends what an account means, if it is a OS account then it is like new device. If the account is a different wallet inside of the app then same private profile can be used with any of the wallets within same OS account. But no worries, I will try to answer again in more detail, just differently, so maybe it makes sense this way: * You can only attest single-address wallet, so you can't attest your multisig wallet because it is not single-address. You also can't attest wallet that has change addresses, but ... * attestations are saved in the private profile inside your app (per OS account), so it doesn't matter much, which wallet you use on that device because if the bot asks you to provide your identity, you can provide it no matter what wallet you have selected. * The way attestations work is that they are either private or public and linked to single-address wallet, real name attestation is always private, so only hash is public on DAG. email or steem attestations can either be private or public and if user picks public then email/username are public on DAG too. Reason I mention this is that public attestations can be looked up to see whose email/username is linked to which address, but with private attestation you can only check if the profile provided by user is not tampered with (and actually attested by correct attestor), you can't go and look on DAG everybody who are born on year 2000. * I have not tried to attest with real name attestation on another device, but I am guessing it will ask $8 again if you want to attest it on multiple devices because Jumio will still need to make sure that it's a valid document and it is indeed you. I don't know if there is any other limitations about doing it on multiple devices, but I am guessing you won't get rewards twice on next device with same ID (needs to be different ID for a reward). Whether it is business for nerds or not, hard to tell. I think we nerds are the ones who want to figure out beforehand what is the most optimal way how to setup these things, but most people will probably just attest the default single-address wallet they have and be done with it. |
|
|
|
 I never heard the answer to my question, * * * Don't you like the idea of integrating into discord or Slark? What kind of confirmation do you need that this is a cool idea? Some liked the idea that much that they already did it for Discord 2 months ago. |
|
|
|
I'm interested in getting into the identity verification issue, so as to be able to send vouchers to friends. However, there are a few things I'd like to understand first on that topic. This is the medium post which has introduced the subject in January 2018: https://medium.com/byteball/bringing-identity-to-crypto-b35964feee8eSomeone below the article is asking : "Can I have several accounts with the same identity?" and the answer is "yes". But I didn't understand exactly how that would work. Let's say I'd like to create a wallet with a "public" profile, ie linked to my identity, in the app on my laptop. Later I'd decide to "extend" my identity also to a wallet I'm having on my mobile phone and/or to a multisig wallet on my PCs. How exactly would I have to do? And another question: If I'm creating a wallet with little funds inside an app where is already another (main) wallet of mine with all my funds (which for obvious reasons I'd like to keep private) - would it be possible to connect my identity just to the wallet with the little funds while keeping full privacy over the other wallet(s) which are in the same app? If yes, what should I especially pay attention to? If the bot asks you do share your private profile from your wallet (that's where your data is saved, there is no public profile, DAG only has hash), you can share any data from your private profile with that bot and the bot can verify if the Real Name Attestor has posted a hash about it, so the data is not manipulated. Attested addresses need to be single-address wallets, so I think you can create as many single-address wallets on as many devices and attest them again, I haven't tried it though. Probably not great to have all your funds on single-address wallet, which is created by default as a first wallet since this January. You get little bit more privacy if you have your funds on wallets that are not single-address wallets (wallets that generate new change addresses). If you move the funds out of that single-address wallet and then attest it publicly (email or steem attestation) then it will be visible that address with your email or steem username once had that many bytes, but they need to do lot more to find out, which change addresses it has moved in your other wallet. With email and steem attestation, you have also option to do the private attestation, but then you won't get the features that let's others use them as aliases to your Byteball address. You can always later go from private to public (except real name attestation), but not other way. |
|
|
|
Donate the remaining 22% to UNICEF and focus on the current needs.
Distribution, adoption and circulation will then happen on their own, and as a result, the value of the project and the price of the coins will increase.
More suggestions?
1) fair 2) wide 3) not just a distribution And in what sense does that distribution method tick any of the boxes above, if everything goes just from one entity to another? it's just changes hands who will have a control over 22% of the marketcap. For example, all kind of attestation methods (not just KYC) have some kind of cost, so it helps if there are funds now that let users do those attestation without cost and even get rewarded. Having users who have attested something about themselves helps other bot builders to build services that use that info without having to worry about how to build the onboarding proccess if they need to ask tons of info about the users. For example, if you want to start selling airplane tickets with Byteball bots (and also flight insurance as extra) then at the moment, you have all the features you need to build that. You don't have to ask the users to go find their passport and type in their passport details and you can offer them insurance on Byteball DAG. Also, you can be sure that the details that they gave you from their private profile are correct without any typos, because it has been verified by Jumio. I understand that you are against KYC, but every attestation method helps * distribute the funds as rewards and attract new users with that. * add more value to Byteball platform as features that other bot developers could use. And KYC helps that it's fair, same person will not be rewarded twice. Only thing left is find more methods that are even more wider, all over the world. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
