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1361  Economy / Exchanges / Re: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate as a bank. This is HUGE on: December 06, 2012, 05:12:09 PM
Wow! That's awesome.
1362  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: financial reporting standards for Bitcoin funds ? on: December 06, 2012, 01:55:21 AM
We are trying to build a rating agency for Bitcoin institutions. (only exchanges so far) It would be great if you could share some feedback for our score system: http://imfed.org/ratings/our-score-system/
There is no information on where the numbers come from. They may be well researched for all I can tell, but they seem almost entirely arbitrary.
1363  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Hiring C++ and JS programmers on: December 06, 2012, 01:15:47 AM
are you guys going to offer the bitcoin community in particular early access?
The bitcoin community is the first to start following what we're doing and I expect members of that community to be the first to "get" what we're doing.

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how big of a role does bitcoin play in your overall plan?
One of the things Ripple does is it gives fiat currencies a lot of the behavior of bitcoins -- easily traded over long distances, no chargebacks, and so on. This removes a significant barrier from the use of Bitcoins -- that of having to adapt to fiat currencies that don't match it very well. Using Ripple to exchange Bitcoins for fiat currency is a key use case.

Ripple also gives a more uniform model for handling both Bitcoins and fiat. For example, you can set prices in dollars in our system and people can pay you with dollars, Bitcoins, Euros, or any other currency for which a path is available. So every company that adopts Ripple will be another company you can pay with Bitcoins and, we hope, with reduced exchange fees on either or both ends.
1364  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How Libertarianism was created by big business lobbyists on: December 06, 2012, 12:27:48 AM
Sure, Opportunity Cost 101. But not everything is measurable in money. What about sentimental things like health, education, or family? How much money is your health worth if you lose it? $1000? What if you can afford a million dollars - does that make your health worth more?
That's a decision people have to make ahead of time. We are failing to make that decision and it's one of things destroying our health care system. If you want hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to extend your life a month or two at the end, that's your choice. But I don't see why my health insurance should be unaffordable because of it. Our health and education systems are going down the tubes precisely because we don't conduct cost/benefit analyses and thus we don't focus our costs where they get us the greatest benefits and have to overpay for the benefits we really want.

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It doesn't make any sense to apply cold-blooded market efficiency to certain things.
Quite the reverse, it doesn't make sense not to.

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Otherwise one ends up going down a slippery slope towards analysing the financial pros-and-cons of things like euthanasia and eugenics.
It's even worse when you don't do that. You wind up driving costs through the roof and people can't afford the services they really do want. The protection against euthanasia and eugenics is individual rights.

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I agree that in many cases government research may be a waste of time. If people are allocated a budget, they better use it or they'll lose it! Wink However, my point gains the most significance in cases where there are clear moral values at stake, yet its worth is not measurable in money. E.g.: cancer cures, search-and-rescue/disaster relief tools, plentiful sources of potable water.... Even loss-making space exploration has value.
I agree. But if you factor in the probability that the research will not pan out, I think these all flunk any sensible cost/benefit analysis. I don't think you can make a coherent case against a cost benefit analysis.
1365  Other / Off-topic / Re: ISP ethics? on: December 06, 2012, 12:22:04 AM
Unless you hacked the router, it wouldn't send any packets at all. It would never bring the IP link up because address negotiation had failed. Even if you did get it to accept packets, no packets bound for that address would ever get back to you.

Perhaps you are confusing the router with the modem.
I'm tacitly assuming they're combined and that some link protocol (like PPPoA) is being used. The results are the same no matter what, but the details are different.
1366  Other / Off-topic / Re: ISP ethics? on: December 05, 2012, 10:43:15 PM
They are still able to force a new IP onto your router.

Even if I set the router to static?

If this happened your computer would stop being able to use the internet. The ISP would reject your packets due to not owning the IP. This is the basis behind a DHCP based internet gateway.

The router will obey you but the ISP will not obey the router.
Unless you hacked the router, it wouldn't send any packets at all. It would never bring the IP link up because address negotiation had failed. Even if you did get it to accept packets, no packets bound for that address would ever get back to you.

1367  Other / Off-topic / Re: ISP ethics? on: December 05, 2012, 10:25:56 PM
190.219.xxx.xxx

no interest in the cp part, but I can put any ip of my choice?
how does that work?
On some ISPs, if you ask for an IP address that is in the set of IP addresses they could assign to you and that IP address isn't currently assigned to someone else, they will give you the IP address you ask for. Most likely your ISP is acting in this way.
1368  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 10:21:41 PM
That is quite false conclusion, and coming from you I don't know what to think because I started to respect the things you say on the forum lately. The answer to these perpetual moving machines is simple oscillators that get their impulse energy at resonance. The part you didn't get right is a known property of physics called inertia which is responsible for making them work. They are very real and simple to build, but tricky and require the builder attention at all details.
The argument I made explains precisely why these machines can't work. Whatever state they're in, whether resonant or not, can be assigned a number based on the minimum energy required to assemble the machine into that state. And no known law of motion, energy, inertia, or resonance allows a transition to a higher-numbered state or to a state with an equal number while withdrawing energy. It really is that simple.


You build you argument quite well but fail based on preconceived assumptions. I don't get very well your number and state terms
Let me try to explain it one more time. Imagine the machine is in some particular state. Its components are in particular places, some are moving, and so on. Now imagine the machine with all its parts not moving and in a pile at the bottom. For each state of the machine, there's some minimum amount of energy it would take to assemble the machine from the pile of parts to that state -- you have to move the parts, accelerate moving parts, and so on. So you can assign every possible physical condition of the machine a number. No known laws of physics allow the machine to move from a state with a lower number to a state with a higher number unless energy is fed in from the outside. And outputting energy from the machine always lowers the state number.

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but I can tell you the energy required to keep a resonant machine going is a few orders of magnitude smaller than the one present in the system and available for conversion at any time.
Absolutely. The same is true of a book on a shelf. Almost no energy is required to keep the book on the shelf. But if you knock it off the shelf, you can extract that energy at any time. However, this lowers the book, changing the machine to a state with a lower energy.

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Note the energy produced is not available for work right away, but to be transformed or converted to another state. I would love to involve in a debate on this issue but from my experience is only a loss of time and resources for something that will finally come out like a second nature for any individual, and then be accepted by the mainstream "science" people.
Nobody said machines can't store a fixed amount of energy that you can then withdraw.
1369  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 10:14:56 PM
As stated before in an environment that causes no frictions (Vacuum, no gravity, perfect mechanics - which don't exist) it should theoretically be possible to construct such a machine that once set in motion keeps spinning at a constant rate for eternity. But as soon as you start to remove energy from the system (generator) it would start to slow down and eventually stop.
Correct. While we know of no practical way to build such a device, it doesn't really violate any known laws.

The problem is that friction isn't the only cause of energy loss. Radiation occurs in anything with heat, and anything without heat is by definition devoid of energy.
We permit the machine to operate at a fixed temperature, exchanging equal amounts of radiation (or any other kind of energy for that matter) with the environment provided it doesn't require or exploit any special organization of that energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer
That's cheating.
1370  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 10:11:56 PM
The big bang isn't perpetual motion it's just 100% efficient.

More nonsense or do you want to prove that?
By "perpetual motion machine", we mean an object of fixed size that can output more energy across its boundary that comes in across that boundary, and can continue to do so indefinitely. If you draw a box around the present location of everything that was present at the big bang, nothing would be leaving that box, and the box would eventually grow beyond all bounds. If the big bang is a perpetual motion, then everything is, even a single photon.
1371  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 10:02:53 PM
That is quite false conclusion, and coming from you I don't know what to think because I started to respect the things you say on the forum lately. The answer to these perpetual moving machines is simple oscillators that get their impulse energy at resonance. The part you didn't get right is a known property of physics called inertia which is responsible for making them work. They are very real and simple to build, but tricky and require the builder attention at all details.
The argument I made explains precisely why these machines can't work. Whatever state they're in, whether resonant or not, can be assigned a number based on the minimum energy required to assemble the machine into that state. And no known law of motion, energy, inertia, or resonance allows a transition to a higher-numbered state or to a state with an equal number while withdrawing energy. It really is that simple.
1372  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 09:58:24 PM
Is this taking into count that a thing like this would potentially be a few hundred pounds of rubber balls on the outside pulling down, as the balls in the water is lifting up?
It makes no difference what else is going on. All that matters is that the energy that comes out is from the water pushing up on the air and the energy that needs to go in for the ball to enter the water is an amount sufficient to raise any equal volume of water an equal distance. Since water is much denser than air, the energy that comes out of the machine must always be much less than the energy that goes into it unless the machine is slowing down, in which case it will soon stop.

Yeah, the picture was rather irrelevant. Sorry for the confusion.
Don't sell yourself short, I thought it was a brilliant retort. Wink
1373  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 09:55:32 PM
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For any such fixed-sized machine based solely on motion, gravity, magnetics, and electricity, and consuming no input fuel, you can assign a number to every state of the machine based on how much energy it would take to assemble the machine, charge its capacitors, place its magnets, accelerate any moving parts, and so on, starting with all the components at rest, neutrally charged, and infinitely far apart. (Or, alternatively, you can call the machine's initial state zero if you like and use the minimum energy needed to transition from the initial state to that state.) All known laws of physics only allow the machine to transition to states with an equal number, and any energy removed from the machine (including radiated and conducted heat) reduces that number. This is sufficient to show that any perpetual motion machine is provably impossible if it uses only the known properties of physics.
Really? What about this one:
<snipped image of big bang>
There are conflicting theories, but so far as I know, none of them seriously suggests a violation of this principle. Some of the more "out there" theories claim the big bang drew energy from existing source that is limitless for practical purposes and then claim that they can build machines that can tap into this source. Machines that claim to tap into the energy stored in permanent magnets and try to find a technical escape clause by arguing their machines will last for decades or centuries, rather than forever, try this. Others claim their machines tap into a nuclear source.

My sole point here is that you can't do this with the known laws of motion, gravity, magnetics, and electricity.
1374  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
Wasn't being sarcastic, displace what water? The water is already displaced, the balls would all be of equal size, and the same mass would be in the water at any given time. As half of 1 ball leaves the water, half of 1 is already entering.
Since one ball is leaving at the top and one ball is entering at the bottom, you need to convert a space at the top of the water (left by the leaving ball) to a space at the bottom of the water (needed by the entering ball). How can you do that without lifting the water up?

The energy you get from the air rising comes from the water lowering as the air rises. Since water is denser than water, it takes more energy to lift the water up to make space for the entering ball than you get from the rising of that ball.

Imagine a tube with a fixed amount of water in it. Now imagine that same tube with the same amount of water but an air bubble in the bottom. The water level must be higher in the second tube. Thus it takes energy to place an air bubble in the bottom of a tube of water without removing water from it, since the existing water must be raised. This applies regardless of what's going on at the top of the tube.
1375  Economy / Services / Re: I'll Pay 5 BTC to Anyone that can build the following. on: December 05, 2012, 09:44:09 PM
Simple: In order to enter the Water tank, you balloons would have to displace the water at first, thereby raising the Waterlevel. This would require the same energy the water uses later to displace the balloon upward.
For any such fixed-sized machine based solely on motion, gravity, magnetics, and electricity, and consuming no input fuel, you can assign a number to every state of the machine based on how much energy it would take to assemble the machine, charge its capacitors, place its magnets, accelerate any moving parts, and so on, starting with all the components at rest, neutrally charged, and infinitely far apart. (Or, alternatively, you can call the machine's initial state zero if you like and use the minimum energy needed to transition from the initial state to that state.) All known laws of physics only allow the machine to transition to states with an equal number, and any energy removed from the machine (including radiated and conducted heat) reduces that number. This is pretty much sufficient to show that any perpetual motion machine is provably impossible if it uses only the known properties of physics.
1376  Other / Politics & Society / Re: How Libertarianism was created by big business lobbyists on: December 05, 2012, 09:37:27 PM
Except it's so wrong. It has been shown that the government will fund things that corporations won't. Corporations typically will only engage in R & D that has a payoff within a certain amount of time, typically much less than government funded research might yield. This is known, and examples abound.

And here we have new motors, the result of government funded research. Are you saying the motors don't now exist?
When the government does something, you see the thing the government did, and you reason (often correctly) that had the government not done it, it wouldn't have been done. However, what you don't see is what those resources could have produced had they not been taken by the government. And what you fail to factor in is the cost of all the research that doesn't produce useful results.

Yes, you need the government to take risks so bad that nobody's willing to take them with their own money. But it stands to reason that the vast majority of the time, the costs outweigh the probable benefits. We'd be better off without it.

Had the government not taxed the wealth that funded that research, those who produced that wealth would have used it for things they value more.
1377  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Hiring C++ and JS programmers on: December 05, 2012, 01:11:54 PM
just to be clear, will i be able to buy a kind of "currency" using your system?
One thing you can do is accept an offer to exchange any kind of currency somebody is willing to sell for anything you already have. You can also place a standing offer that others can accept.

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Is there any early adopter advantage?
Since there's no mining, there isn't the early adopter mining advantage that Bitcoin had. Early adopters, however, will have the first crack at any opportunities the system does provide while later adopters will have missed at least some of them. This is, unfortunately, a dangerous area for me to comment on. (It's much the same reason Bitcoin folks can't say things like "Buy bitcoins as an investment, they're almost sure to go up".)

One possible early adopter advantage is that the system may have less liquidity in the beginning. Lower liquidity could mean larger spreads. For example, if nobody is offering to exchange a particular currency pair for a decent rate, you may find somebody who needs to exchange that currency pair to make a payment might accept an offer that's really not very good. You can easily place a number of "not very good" offers and if anyone gets desperate and liquidity is poor, that's a profit opportunity. However, there's no guarantee liquidity will be or stay poor. And you have to remember to cancel your offers if the exchange rates change. So this is purely speculative.
1378  Other / Off-topic / Re: ISP ethics? on: December 05, 2012, 12:24:59 AM
Even if I set the router to static?

Yup, your router doesn't get to choose the IP it gets.

wouldn't setting a static ip on the router, manually inputing the numbers, if the isp forces another ip, wouldn't I not be able to surf?
That's correct. So right now, it's just luck. If your ISP assigns your IP address to someone else, your connection will break.

Entering a static IP on your router does two things:

1) Your router will attempt to negotiate that IP address with the other end.

2) Your router will use that IP address no matter what the results of the negotiation.

Your ISP will likely give you the IP you asked for if it can. This prevents brief interruptions in connectivity from causing IP address changes. (Most modems/routers will first ask for whatever IP they had last, if they remember it. But they'll accept whatever the ISP offers after that.) However, if someone else has "your" IP address, they won't be able to give it to you and will offer you another IP address. You will reject that IP address, and the link negotiation will fail. Your router will retry the negotiation periodically.
1379  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Why not direct trade with Dwolla? on: December 05, 2012, 12:22:01 AM
Why not save ourselves the Gox or other site trading fees and buy/sell to people directly with dwolla?

Could utilize a site like bitcoinary.com or just this forum here
Has Dwolla's policy changed? I was under the impression they specifically prohibited using Dwolla to buy and sell virtual currencies unless one party had special written permission from Dwolla to do so.
1380  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Should Giga be tagged as a scammer? on: December 04, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
Easy: just start paying back who is on the Nefario's list if you want be honest and consistent with your promise and past behavior. Who is not in the list, and say he should, can try his best to get things fixed with Nefario in order to get paid later, or just call the cops (the best option for everyone in this case imho). But using such cases as a pseudo-excuse to steal the assets of the most of your investors is just lame.
As you said, this process can only work if either Nefario or law enforcement is willing to participate in it. There's no evidence of either. And if law enforcement does get involved, the last thing an asset issuer will want to have done is paid out all the funds they hold to the wrong people.

I understand your frustration, but you are insisting other people do things that have huge risks to them and, frankly, don't make any sense. I would suggest pressuring GLBSE to agree to mediate a redemption process or, failing that, issue cryptographically verifiable asset holder lists so asset issuers can prove a particular person is or isn't on the list they got. You chose GLBSE to protect your ownership interest -- make them do what you paid them to do or hold them accountable.
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