Dang coinhoarder, you always know how to put complex ideas into easy-to-understand words. Sorry yurizhai, but his arguments blow yours out of the water.
Nubits is a ponzi in its current form, simple as that. Whether or not the devs are aware of this, however, is a different story.
He didn't say anything. There is little substance in that entire post. The one criticism of NuBits everyone is labeling as a ponzi scheme (increasing demand by increasing inflation) doesn't even meet definition of a ponzi scheme. And it's something that several people have proposed potential solutions to. It looks like a bunch of people parroting bytemaster's post in an echo chamber. The very problem is talked about in the whitepaper, presumably it would happen years to decades from now, and it would be extremely obvious it's happening - and that's all if Nu didn't implement a solution by then. I'm pretty sure that there is no way NuBits could have possibly released that wouldn't have the BTSX crowd hostile towards it. Fortunately whether or not the BTSX crowd likes it will not affect it's success. |
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why is it not a ponzi if the nushare owners can vote anytime more nubits at the market? the interest for parking, where does it come from? i suspect from issuing new nubits - this is inflation - and will blow up big time! You're just echoing what bytemaster said. Did you forget he also said that it could probably work for quite awhile? You are forgetting the part where he said that Nubits would fail, like all ponzi schemes eventually do. There is probably a reason why "Jordan Lee" is anonymous. There is also a reason him and the Devs are selling all NuShares to bag holders for 6.5 million U.S. Dollars, ridding themselves of all risks of the Nushares/Nubits system. http://discuss.nubits.com/t/undistributed-nushares/125You are also forgetting why people hate the Federal Reserve.. because they can and will print money if they deem it appropriate or necessary and dilute USD holders. Nushares has already started diluting Nubits owners by printing a 4 million Nubits bail out fund, and over time it will get worse and worse as the market cap of Nubits grows and more "rainy day" funds are needed to "bail out" the system when (not if) it fails. http://discuss.nubits.com/t/proposal-to-create-a-strategic-reserve-of-nubits/448Except the federal reserve uses laws, regulations, prison, and weapons to ensure its power. Nubits, although modeling the way they print money closely, has none of these things going for it. Just like many think the Federal Reserve is a ponzi and will fail, people think the same of Nubits. Don't act like Nubits won't use the 4 million "bail out" fund which they already created for this exact purpose if shit hits the fan. This is why it is a Ponzi scheme, Nubits owners will pay for the bail out via dilution, even though they have no control over its creation or usage. Nubits owners are vulnerable to whatever Nushares holders deem appropriate or necessary. btw nubits just printed another 4.04M out of thin air, any potential buyers here? remember that they can print as many as you want! maybe you can ask for a discount if you buy large quantities!
My guess is that noone is buying this ponzi, all I see is an artificially inflated supply and bot trading to get some attention, perhaps they should "print" 140M this would bring them to the 2nd place in marketcap.
Yeah laugh away, keep denouncing it as a "ponzi scheme", it's not going to change the fact that NuBits is and will probably continue to blow BitUSD out of the water. Make up all the excuses you want. Seriously, the irrational hatred and the general behavior of the BitsharesX crowd is truly pathetic. Just look at the post on the BitsharesX forum https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9057.300 . Insane. I hope the entire world sees that thread, it's enough to stay away from BTSX completely. They're just afraid. You must understand BTSX users hatred for Nubits. You guys come onto the scene after BTSX and bitUSD and claim to be "The World's First Stable Digital Currency" in big letters right on the home page of your website, even though BTSX and bitUSD were being talked about, advertised, developed, and released before Nubits. The BTSX community also acts the way it does towards Nubits because it believes that they have the better solution to the same problem. Yet Nubits/Nushares bag holders are going everywhere (including our own forums) and spreading the gospel as to how it is such a "better" solution, as is evidenced with your bolded statement, sucking in new and unwitting victims to your ponzi scheme. Nushares holders print uncollateralized tokens in the form of Nubits, and can print however many they would like as they are uncollateralized. Meanwhile bitUSD is backed by 300% collateral as they do not come into existence without 200% collateral provided by a short position on bitUSD and 100% collateral as provided by the buyer of the bitUSD. Nushares/Nubits can evolve and so can BTSX/bitUSD, but it doesn't change the fact your system is broken in the same way the Federal Reserve is broken and thus hated. It would need to be completely redesigned to collateralize Nubits and not be a ponzi scheme.. the ability to burn Nubits for Nushares doesn't change this. It would need to be redesigned so much so that it would no longer resemble anything like Nushares/Nubits functions today. The only thing Nubits has on bitUSD right now is better liquidity. Whereas Nubits uses market makers to provide massive buy and sell walls, bitUSD liquidity is more natural and related to its adoption.. similar to all cryptocurrencies. The Nubits market would probably qualify as the most manipulated cryptocurrency market for this reason. The only way it retains its value is with these market makers in place and the massive buy/sell walls they provide, whereas bitUSD allows all of its end users to maintain the market peg without such manipulation. bitUSD liquidity will improve as it is further adopted, and thus it is more natural compared to its current adoption and not as manipulated. It's liquidity develops much like any other cryptocurrency, as it is adopted more there will be more liquidity and volume. The only thing upholding the value of Nubits is the promise that someone will buy it back for $1. In the case of exchange default, that promise could be broken as who will sign up as a market maker once that happens. Exchange default will happen sooner or later. Furthermore, the market makers could withdrawal their buy walls at any moment, and at that point there is nothing upholding the value of Nubits to $1. There are only handfuls of market makers in Nubits, whereas with bitUSD the whole user base are the market makers. Nubits isn't traded on a decentralized exchange like bitUSD is and is subject to exchange default, kyc/aml regulations, and possibly taxes at some point due to those aml/kyc restrictions that all centralized exchanges will need to adhere to once governments around the world regulate Bitcoin and other virtual currencies. Both systems have there pros and cons but I'll stick to the system (BTSX/bitUSD) that doesn't rely on trusted third parties like Nubit's market makers, centralized exchanges, and Nushares owners, rather than settle for an alternative that prints uncollateralized money, is similar to a ponzi scheme just as the federal reserve is, will likely fail at some point in time due to its ponzi-like attributes...... that happens to have better liquidity at the moment until bitUSD is more widely adopted. Enjoy your one and only benefit as in having better liquidity for the time being, as once that statement is no longer true there isn't any benefit to Nubits over bitUSD and yet it retains all of the negatives that BTSX doesn't suffer from by design. It will be a sad day when Nushares/Nubits bag holders lose all of their money, yet I will not feel sorry for you all as we have warned you about all of the flaws repeatedly and you choose to write it off as FUD. This is a whole lotta text with a whole lotta nothing in it. Coinhoarder. Look at me. Put your face to your monitor. Imagine my eyes on the other side. Do you genuinely, honestly believe the Nu network is intended to be a scam or ponzi scheme? I mean seriously? The Peercoin community and be extension the Nu commmunity is probably one of the least scam like communities in the entire cryptocurrency space. I'm not saying this as PPC fan, or a NBT fan, just as a genuine fact. Thousands of posts over a year to confirm this. You are seriously deluded my friend. |
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why should i buy Nubits?
i want to buy Nushares, but only "selected" people are chosen. if you go to the nubits side, you will find nothing, how you can buy nushares. nushares are not traded on any exchange. The security of the network required a portion of the shares to be distributed to people who could be trusted in order to get off the ground. It will only become more decentralized from here. However, there is nothing stopping any exchange from adding NuShare trading. In fact, the first exchange trading NuShares was added today.https://bter.com/trade/nsr_btc ( Note: bter had trouble and deposits currently aren't working but I'm guessing it will be fixed within a day ) So it's already on one exchange, a month from now it will probably be several. You want NuShares on exchanges? Go petition your favorite exchange to add them. why is it not a ponzi if the nushare owners can vote anytime more nubits at the market? the interest for parking, where does it come from? i suspect from issuing new nubits - this is inflation - and will blow up big time! You're just echoing what bytemaster said. Did you forget he also said that it could probably work for quite awhile? Oh and guess what else, a new mechanism to burn NBT in exchange for NuShares is already being discussed, a draft will probably be presented within a few weeks. Boom, the major criticism of NuBits solved, probably years before it would have become a problem anyway. It's like you don't understand cryptocurrencies can evolve. It's clear the BTSX is either deluded or shitting themselves. |
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btw nubits just printed another 4.04M out of thin air, any potential buyers here? remember that they can print as many as you want! maybe you can ask for a discount if you buy large quantities!
My guess is that noone is buying this ponzi, all I see is an artificially inflated supply and bot trading to get some attention, perhaps they should "print" 140M this would bring them to the 2nd place in marketcap.
Yeah laugh away, keep denouncing it as a "ponzi scheme", it's not going to change the fact that NuBits is and will probably continue to blow BitUSD out of the water. Make up all the excuses you want. Seriously, the irrational hatred and the general behavior of the BitsharesX crowd is truly pathetic. Just look at the post on the BitsharesX forum https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9057.300 . Insane. I hope the entire world sees that thread, it's enough to stay away from BTSX completely. They're just afraid. |
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Q: Why are there so many alternative cryptocurrencies?
A: Because all crypto-currencies to-date are speculative "investments" (gambles), not currencies.
What about NuBits? So the concept is we let the US Federal Reserve control the debasement of our crypto-currency. On top of that we apply the certain failure of democracy (voting) to centralize our crypto-currency with ProofOfShit. Nevermind widespread distribution as that wouldn't have anything to do with making a currency. Absolutely fucking brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? This is a terrible criticism of nubits because it is a criticism of the USD. Fine, adopt it to your preferred monetary theory and make an alt-nubit that is supposed to track whatever global price you want. The criticism was absolutely apropos because tracking an external unit has nothing to do with creating a unit-of-account. I don't think so. Whether or not you like that it's tied to USD doesn't change my point, that it's not a speculative gamble. No one is buying NuBits hoping they increase in value, maybe NuShares but not the bits. Eliminate wild-eyed speculation on gains from currency taking over the world, and don't actually provide any way for it to gain widespread distribution to become a currency, then nothing remains. Pegging to USD doesn't a widespread digital currency make. NuBits' pegging design eliminates any impressive speculative gains the early users of the currency could reap, which could lead to viral marketing. P.S. I never wrote that a solution was to eliminate speculative gains. Read my first post in this thread and make sure you understand the logic of exclusion. Whether or not you think the distribution of NuBits is going to be widespread enough for it to be a currency does not matter. Q: Why are there so many alternative cryptocurrencies?
A: Because all crypto-currencies to-date are speculative "investments" (gambles), not currencies. This is what I'm responding to. Is there some arbitrary number of users a currency has to have for it to meet the literal definition of the word currency? Because if not, you are wrong. |
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By the way I think nubits is well-intentioned but totally broken but that's a separate discussion...
If it's the kicking the can down the road thing again, it's already on it's way to being addressed  |
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Q: Why are there so many alternative cryptocurrencies?
A: Because all crypto-currencies to-date are speculative "investments" (gambles), not currencies.
What about NuBits? So the concept is we let the US Federal Reserve control the debasement of our crypto-currency. On top of that we apply the certain failure of democracy (voting) to centralize our crypto-currency with ProofOfShit. Nevermind widespread distribution as that wouldn't have anything to do with making a currency. Absolutely fucking brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? This is a terrible criticism of nubits because it is a criticism of the USD. Fine, adopt it to your preferred monetary theory and make an alt-nubit that is supposed to track whatever global price you want. The criticism was absolutely apropos because tracking an external unit has nothing to do with creating a unit-of-account. I don't think so. Whether or not you like that it's tied to USD doesn't change my point, that it's not a speculative gamble. No one is buying NuBits hoping they increase in value, maybe NuShares but not the bits. |
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Q: Why are there so many alternative cryptocurrencies?
A: Because all crypto-currencies to-date are speculative "investments" (gambles), not currencies.
What about NuBits? |
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One thing I can say for sure. The reaction from a lot of the BTSX crowd has been very disappointing. Seeing bytemaster use words like 'suckers' and 'ponzi scheme' is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if BTSX ends up the greatest thing that graced the human race, and NuBits a terrible idea - let it be known that Jordan Lee acts more professional when he is taking a dump, and that counts for something in my book. I think it's important people remember that in the end it's not crypto vs. crypto, it's crypto vs. state.
That said, if you knew BM's normal extremely measured and objective mode of communication, I think you'd take what he has to say about nubits more seriously. BTSX is accused of being a ponzi all the time so it is dangerous to recklessly accuse others, and bm knows the "real" critieria of ponzi and does not use the term lightly. I believe you believe that, but I also think he just did. We're talking within hours of it's release, the mere infancy of a new system and he called it that. If Jordan thought something was a ponzi scheme, I still do not think he would say those words. He would voice his concerns in a very detailed and professional manner, and wait for a response. Apparently this doesn't matter to a lot of people, as BM seems to have quite a few followers ready to back him up regardless. Still, I thank you for speaking cordially with me! |
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One thing I can say for sure. The reaction from a lot of the BTSX crowd has been very disappointing. Seeing bytemaster use words like 'suckers' and 'ponzi scheme' is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if BTSX ends up the greatest thing that graced the human race, and NuBits a terrible idea - let it be known that Jordan Lee acts more professional when he is taking a dump, and that counts for something in my book. I think it's important people remember that in the end it's not crypto vs. crypto, it's crypto vs. state.
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And nubits never get destroyed. NuBits are destroyed in every transaction, just like Peercoin. So amount of nubits is going to grow monotonically. This will inevitably lead to nubits collapse, as even interest alone (if it doesn't change over time) provide exponential growth of nubits amount.
How long this system will last depends on amount of trust. Why would someone park nubits to get more nubits? Ony if he's sure that he can always cash them out to USD at exchange rate close to 1.0. If that trust is alredy undermined some users will cash out, and the system will have to increase interest rate more and more to maintain bid walls, but the more interest the system pays the more nubits will go to sell side next time. Collapse is inevitable.
Am I wrong?
Interest will be 0 in times of high demand, and a fair amount in times of low. I do not believe this leads to exponential increases. Many people will choose to park NBT just for the interest paid. |
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I might got it wrong but your tools to stabilize prize is by auto selling in centralized exchanges and by offering high interest rates when the prize is too low? EDIT It seems I got it right... https://nubits.com/about/price-stabilityProbably this explains the -25% peercoin price so far Why is it centralized? There is not just one exchange. This gets elected by the network. AFAIN there are custodians which apply for a specific task. This could be developing an app or creating a sell wall at exchange Bter.com for a specific time. I have know idea if there is a mechanism to avoid cheating (why does the custodian not just run away?) neither do I know what profit they make for their effort. The custodian will likely prove that they are a major stake holder in NuShares, so that their objectives are aligned with the rest of the shareholders. |
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The objective is to lower the supply when demand is low, and increase when demand is high.
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1. how will it keep its price while being traded for BTC
2. what are peershares
3. how peershares will be implemented
4. what kind of wallet will it have compared to usue QTs we know
5. what is it vs ie NXT
1. 1 NBT = $1. So if BTC is worth $100, 1 BTC = 100 NBT, if BTC = $425, 1 BTC = 425 NBT. 2. Peershares are a piece of technology companies can use to create their own custom securities, aka shares. So if you started a company called Burger Joe's, you could use Peershares to create Joeshares, and sell them to people like shares. It's basically cryptocurrency version of shares, with voting, dividends, all that stuff, built right into the client. You can customize the shares to meet your company's needs. NuBits/NuShares is the first time Peershares have been used. 3. I don't know what yo mean. 4. Do you want to know about Peershares or NuBits/NuShares? 5. I don't know or care about NXT. |
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I try to understnad htsi concept i read website but.. its too techy. Its fucking too techy.
Can someobdy tell whatr doesi t do and how does it work within few simple lines? It cannot be that complex!
What exactly do you want to know? |
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How do you enforce "revenue is paid to shareholders in the form of peercoins only"? If I understand correctly, this process is entirely off-chain and I don't see how you could stop the shareholders form choosing to pay dividends in USD or BTC or something.
It's not off chain. Paying dividends with Peercoins happens in the client. Paying dividends with something else would be.. hard, to say the least. We're talking hundreds, thousands, eventually hundreds of thousands of shareholders you're going to pay individually with something other than Peercoin, or create some kind of program to do it.. why? It's supposed to be in Peercoins, if you refuse to do it that's a good way for the shareholders to abandon you as a custodian. Just because it's in the client doesn't mean it's on-chain. I don't see how it could be on-chain without modifying PPC blockchain rules. What if majority shareholders decide PPC is not the best way to pay dividends? From what I can tell it is not explicitly part of the protocol. That's not a bad thing, it's only bad if your promise that PPC is the only way to do this if it isn't. The whitepaper outlines Peercoin as the way dividends will be paid. I do not actually know if it is enforced in the protocol in some way. In any case, there is no reason people would not want to use PPC. It has the smallest blockchain, and they specifically want to avoid paying dividends in NBT. Maybe someday they will change dividends payments, but for now all elected custodians that I know of are planning to buy Peercoins with the profits soon. |
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How do you enforce "revenue is paid to shareholders in the form of peercoins only"? If I understand correctly, this process is entirely off-chain and I don't see how you could stop the shareholders form choosing to pay dividends in USD or BTC or something.
It's not off chain. Paying dividends with Peercoins happens in the client. Paying dividends with something else would be.. hard, to say the least. We're talking hundreds, thousands, eventually hundreds of thousands of shareholders you're going to pay individually with something other than Peercoin, or create some kind of program to do it.. why? It's supposed to be in Peercoins, if you refuse to do it that's a good way for the shareholders to abandon you as a custodian. |
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Far too early to tell, but I think we can all agree it is good to see two serious competitors in the market! This will make both of them try to constantly improve. The NuBits whitepaper can be found here https://nubits.com/about/white-paperThe basic idea is that: The price of NuBits is pressed downward by shareholder elected 'custodians' selling NuBits for $1. The price of NuBits is pressed upward by anyone who owns NuBits being able to take their NuBits out of circulation (called parking) for a limited time in exchange for a monetary incentive, the incentive amount chosen by shareholders which will reflect how needed parking is at the current time. Hope this helps. Interesting. What role does peercoin (undercapitalized) play for the mechanics of Nubits? One Nubits should always be one USD? I clearly have to read the paper NuBits created and sold are an example of a revenue for the network. The revenue is paid to shareholders in the form of Peercoins only.
So how many custodians and who chooses who they are ? Is it a centralized selection process ?
As many as the shareholders elect, and they can be abandoned at the will of the shareholders. Custodians have no control over the network. |
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so only "people who have demonstrated skills that will be helpful to the advancement of the network" can buy nuShares and typical buy should be 9000 nuBits (USD)? As I understand it a portion go to people who have demonstrated they will be good for the network, a portion will be provided to whoever will pay, and after that they will be on exchanges and sold/traded just like any other crypotcurrency. |
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