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601  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 03:37:43 AM
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ArcticMine you always drag me into the long nonsense debates and then I win at the end. Please be more respectful of my time.

Incorrect. You claim to win in the end when in fact the opposite is the case.

So you waste my time, forcing me to go dig up links to show where you lost the prior technical arguments. You just don't know how to quit do you. All you Monerotards do is go around stomping on every body else in the forum.

Here is where you didn't understand properly side-chains, CounterParty, RootStock and consensus algorithms:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15283868#msg15283868
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15284907#msg15284907
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286387#msg15286387
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286631#msg15286631
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1518508.msg15286694#msg15286694


Wait I will dig up the mistakes you made about Monero's block size adjustment algorithm.

You know why I know you lost the argument. One word in your post.

Edit:

...


I dug up the mistakes you made about Monero's block size adjustment algorithm:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13844014#msg13844014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13844373#msg13844373
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13848626#msg13848626
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183043.msg13850005#msg13850005


Please don't make me repeat those discussions. You had your chance already when you made those discussions. No remakes.

Again I dispute your claim that I am incorrect on the matter; however you have saved me time by collecting this material in one place and for this I do thank you.
602  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 03:27:03 AM
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ArcticMine you always drag me into the long nonsense debates and then I win at the end. Please be more respectful of my time.

Incorrect. You claim to win in the end when in fact the opposite is the case.

Edit: As demonstrated in your response here where you did nothing to support your claim:

iCEBREAKER, nobody cares what you have to say.

You are irrelevant. You don't code.

Do I need to link you to ArticMine getting schooled by myself the prior day about side-chains, CounterParty, and RootStock. Why should I bother to waste my time on you.

You don't understand that if you hasten the readjustment that enables other modes of attack. No matter which direction you go, the bottom line is that Monero isn't secure against an attacker with 1000X the hashrate. Period. Stop lying.

Where for example did I say that Monero is secure against an attack with 1000x its hash rate? Or any POW coin for that matter?
603  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 02:33:43 AM
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This is gibberish. It reads like you are drunk.

Yes a 51% attacker is mining valid blocks so when he stops mining, the difficulty is not very high, so that is not the same as attacking the network with 1000X the hashrate and driving the difficulty skyhigh. In your prior message, it seemed you proposed to fork the protocol to change the difficulty using only a 51% attack. I explained that honest miners would ignore the fork. Now you seem to imply the attacker can do a 51% attack, but mine with 1000X the hashrate so they don't need to change the protocol. Well then that isn't a 51% attack, it is the 1000X attack. So you've made no point at all. But it is difficult to understand what you mean, because the above just doesn't make any sense.

So what the hell are you trying to say here?

Please stop wasting my time. Write coherently and correctly at one post. Put your entire point in one post and expend the effort to make your post coherent. This back and forth is very wasteful.

I am not wasting any more time on you. What you see is what you get.
604  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 02:17:01 AM
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I asked you Monerotards to stop wasting my time.
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If you do not want to waste your time may I suggest:
1) Stop proposing attacks that make zero economic sense
2) Stop insulting people.

You are a liar.

And you are insulting me. I asked you to stop being intellectually dishonest and wasting my time.

Now you send smooth here to insult me and lie.

Quoted for posterity. I will deal with this later.

Edit:

Please stop trying to pretend that Monero's measily hashrate is secure! You are both lying.
...

...

You are a liar (or incredibly ignorant of the technology).

And you are insulting me. I asked you to stop being intellectually dishonest and wasting my time.

Now you send smooth here to insult me and lie.

smooth, ArticMine, and iCEBREAKER ganging up on me and lying.
605  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 02:13:29 AM
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I asked you Monerotards to stop wasting my time.
...

If you do not want to waste your time may I suggest:
1) Stop proposing attacks that make zero economic sense
2) Stop insulting people.
606  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: r0ach's Scamcoin Observer & Cryptomarkets Watch on: June 22, 2016, 01:57:28 AM
I support the white hat attack, as it adheres to the code. This is a much better solution than forking.

Yup, I said this earlier (at the time the context was hypothetical counterattacks)

The question in my mind is will this prevent the fork proposed by the devs of Ethereum?
607  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 01:23:38 AM
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There is a huge difference between forking the protocol with 51% hashrate and adhering to the protocol with 100X hashrate (both being ways to set a stratospheric difficulty level).

In the former case, honest miners will ignore the fork. In the latter case, they can't do anything.

ArticMine you are a physicist and I am a programmer for 37 years. I will be more skilled at my field and you will be more expert at yours.

The attacker in the 51% case is mining otherwise perfectly valid blocks but at a higher attack difficulty rather than the correct optimal difficulty in the blocks. There is no actual change in the protocol. The trade-off is that the 51% attack blocks could be easily detected by the network in exchange for a much lower cost of attack. In either case once the attack ends the difficulty starts to fall since time ticks by with no blocks being mined. There is a key difference between Bitcoin or a Bitcoin clone and Monero in that in Bitcoin the difficulty adjustment is discrete approximately every 2 weeks while in Monero it is continuous, This means that by timing the end of the attack correctly the attacker could keep the difficulty constant in Bitcoin for 2 weeks, while in Monero the difficulty starts to fall approximately 2 min after the end of the attack.

http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/
http://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/monero-difficulty-chart

Collusion between honest miners and devs could mitigate the attack but in both cases it involves ignoring the difficulty in the blocks in some way, effectively a hard fork. One can mitigate against this attack by having the difficulty algorithm drop the difficulty at a faster rate if no blocks are found after a given amount of time, where this time is statistically much larger than the normal block time.

Still I do not see the economics here. One can do a lot more damage with a 51% attack than this.
608  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 22, 2016, 12:00:43 AM
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No you've forgotten smooth's point, because the 51% attack requires ongoing hashrate expended by the attacker indefinitely. The network eventually heals when the attacker stops.

The 100X attack is death star. The chain doesn't heal (even after the attacker has stopped mining) without external intervention of a fork, because the difficulty is in the stratosphere so thus no block is ever created again (or not for a long, long time such as years).

I must admit I am most frustrated with iCEBREAKER, because he is intellectually dishonest (probably because of ignorance but I am not sure). You can fiddle with the difficulty algorithm to try to auto correct from the 100X attack, but you open other security flaw holes by doing so.

Agreed you and I, can agree to disagree.

So does the 100x attack since the attacker has to maintain the attack for a period longer than the number to blocks used by the difficulty algorithm to calculate the change in difficulty. So my point is why would the attacker not just fork the coin and set the difficulty to some insane high value?

Edit: I am still waiting for the answer to: For how many blocks do you want to maintain the 100x attack for?
609  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 21, 2016, 11:44:21 PM
You guys are welcome to provide a succinct pseudo-code for your difficulty adjustment algorithm and then I will explain how it is broken in those more specifics.

Just like I did to ArticMine when he explained the precise equation and algorithm of Monero automatic block size adjustment algorithm (c.f. the "Satoshi did not solve the Byzantine General's Problem" thread), I showed him how it is broken. Recently he tried to speak some nonsense about CounterParty and Rootstock and I also explained to him how he was wrong. Before that it was some nonsense about CopyLeft licenses and I explained how he was wrong. A clear pattern has developed. And ArticMine I also don't want to sound disrespectful, but sorry I don't have time for all your mistakes.

Of course you guys will deny it, so how about you stop wasting my time.

iCEBREAKER, you don't know what you think you know, as I showed you last time you tried to belittle me about my work on programming language design. Go find another tree stump to hump. Your nonsense is so banal and repetitive.

We can't have a technical proof in a forum post. Both of you guys know that. So stop fooling the readers.

In the adaptive blocksize limit case as in this case the attacks you formulated required a greater hashpower than the hashpower required to mount a 51% attack on the coin; however I must say than in the blocksize limit case the attack you proposed did not require 100x the hashpower of the coin. Can the difficulty adjustment algorithm in Monero be improved? Of course it can but that does not give any validity to an attack requiring 100x the hashpower of the coin since with a small fraction of such hashpower one can fork the coin and replace the difficulty adjustment algorithm by one that is completely broken by design.

As for our differences on the relative merits of proprietary vs free libre open source software development or between copyleft and non copyleft FLOSS licenses it is best to simply agree to disagree.

Edit: In 2001 Steve Ballmer the then CEO of Microsoft called Linux a cancer because of the Copyleft GPL 2 license. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_cancer/ It is fair to say that 15 years later this slow growing cancer is having an impact.
610  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 21, 2016, 11:01:57 PM
I do not want sound sarcastic, but this is starting to sound to me as attempting to find the most inefficient way to attack a POW coin.
611  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 21, 2016, 10:54:44 PM
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It only requires a very short duration to send the difficulty permanently into the stratosphere. Only a fork can revert it. The attacker doesn't have any ongoing cost. The rental cost is cheap. All your CAPEX arguments fail because you forgot about renting.
...

Incorrect. This is mounting a 51% attack for approximately one day in order to double the blocktime for approximately two days. I do find it interesting though when people suggest attacks that are way more expensive than a 51% attack and have relatively insignificant impact.

Incorrect. This is mounting a 99.9% attack for a fraction of a years in order to increase the block period by 100X for a period of years.

Please get the math correct.

For how long do you want to keep up your 99.9% attack for? Like for how many blocks?
612  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 21, 2016, 10:10:20 PM
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It only requires a very short duration to send the difficulty permanently into the stratosphere. Only a fork can revert it. The attacker doesn't have any ongoing cost. The rental cost is cheap. All your CAPEX arguments fail because you forgot about renting.
...

Incorrect. This is mounting a 51% attack for approximately one day in order to double the blocktime for approximately two days. I do find it interesting though when people suggest attacks that are way more expensive than a 51% attack and have relatively insignificant impact.
613  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 21, 2016, 07:47:05 PM
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Incorrect. The point is that no matter what proof-of-work algorithm an altcoin employs, those who are protecting Bitcoin will rent enough mining hash rate to fuck your coin forever. They only have to rent it for a short period of time, and your difficulty will be so high that it will never produce a block again. And all the money in the chain will be unspendable for a very, very, very long time.

The "attacker" has the resources to do that to any proof-of-work altcoin which doesn't have the level of hashrate of Bitcoin.

Of course the altcoin can then manually reset the difficulty lower using a fork, but then the attacker can repeat again. It will quickly become clear that the altcoin is fucked.

If Monero starts to approach $1 billion market cap (or perhaps much less if the liquidity is very high, which it is for Monero), this attacker will destroy Monero and profit by shorting.

This doesn't mean I am attacking Monero. I am just speaking factually.

If the proof of work algorithms are different there is nothing new here. Manipulating the difficulty in the manner suggested in the article is a horribly inefficient way to attack a POW coin, if the objective is to create havoc in the coin, since it requires much more hashpower than a simple 51% attack. The simple economics of this is that the greater the market price of a coin, the more costly such a brute force attack would be and consequently the least the chance of such an attack. There is really nothing new here. As for bear raids again the more liquid an asset is the less likely a bear raid will succeed.

If the proof of work algorithms are the same then there can be little or no cost in the ASIC case I mentioned above, because the equipment is surplus and obsolete and there is no other use for it. This is why we have seen this phenomenon in some small SHA 256 coins not because the coins were specifically targeted for an attack but rather because people were trying to extract additional value out of obsolete ASIC Bitcoin mining equipment.

Edit 1:  Many in the early days of Bitcoin were afraid that some large bank would attempt such an attack on Bitcoin in order to "nip the competition in the bud", it did not happen. My take is this did not happen because the large players rarely take much notice of the small players until it is too late. If Monero were to grow large enough to pose a serious threat to Bitcoin, and that will take way more than a 1 billion USD market cap, then it will be also way more difficult to attack.
Edit 2: The DAO and MTGox were attacked because there were very weak and full of vulnerabilities. Ethereum could easily go down with the DAO, because the Ethereum devs panicked under pressure and are inducing the community to panic. They should simple do nothing  and let the DAO fail rather put the entire credibility of Ethereum at risk. Bitcoin did not fork over the MTGox troubles and that is why Bitcoin is still around. As for Monero it could not fork to pull these kinds of shenanigans even it it wanted to, because one would not know which transactions to censor.
614  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax on: June 21, 2016, 05:24:41 PM
r0ach is full of shit babbling on about how great Monero is. Monero is insecure. The following is from the attacker who is draining the DAO and who did the Mt.Gox attack:

The "attacker" wrote:

...

Nevertheless, Bitcoin (no, not "cryptocurrencies", there is not nor can ever be such a thing as "cryptocurrencies") has put an end to all that. So it dun work no more.

Regarding the linked blog article that the "attacker" provided in the quote in which he explains that altcoins which employ proof-of-work are impossible to secure...

This difficulty attack requires a much higher percentage of the hashpower than a 51% attack.

The article does make a valid point. If a coin uses the same mining algorithm as an "ASIC Goliath coin" that has gone through more than one generation of ASICs, then it can be attacked using the now obsolete first generation ASICs from "ASIC Goliath coin" that would be otherwise worthless junk. The example of Dogecoin in the article would only work if Litecoin goes through more than one generation of ASICs and Dogecoin were not merged mined with Litecoin. Extrapolating  this attack to Monero fails because:
1) Monero uses CryptoNight not SHA 256, Ethash, Scrypt etc.
3) CryptoNight is ASIC resistant. There are no ASICs for CryptoNight let alone multiple generations of ASICs
2) Monero has by far the greatest hashrate of all the CryptoNight coins.

615  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: POLL - What coins are the hardest to fork ? Crypto is not what I thought it was. on: June 20, 2016, 04:12:43 PM
It looks like freezing coins is much easier than I thought in the Coinmarketcap Hot 100 since all a bigtime dev has to do is propose it.  So I'm wondering which coins have devs who have left the project like bitcoin and bitshares, or are designing systems that do not allow for hardforking even when there is consensus.  Please help here, as you can see, my list is small, and I do not want a coin that is forkable AT ALL. Thanks.

Please give me a reason to put coins on this list. Coins with rock rock star devs like Vitalik, Evan, Sunny King, and Fluffy Pony have godlike control over their networks, and I am looking for the opposite (coins with no well known devs but many unknown devs).

Please correct me if I am wrong abouf any posted info thanks.

There is a critical distinction between been able to hard fork a coin and been able to use a hard fork in order to freeze funds. The real threat here is the ability to selectively freeze funds and / or reverse transactions since this is what happened in Ethereum with the DAO. To do this a developer or core team etc needs two things:
1) They must convince the community (miners, users etc) to go along with the fork. It is one thing to propose a hard fork that is clearly beneficial to the community. It is a very different matter to act as a Judge Jury and Executioner, by freezing funds and / or reversing transactions. The jury is still out on this in the case of Ethereum. Will the Ethereum community approve the fork?
2) They must know which funds to freeze and which transactions to reverse. It is here where Monero and Dash (In the case of Dash only, If the funds are mixed) provide a critical second level of protection, since this information is simply not available to anyone due to the design of the coin. This is a very important benefit of private, anonymous and fungible coins.
616  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Andreas M. Antonopoulos is "bullish on Ethereum" on: June 20, 2016, 03:52:31 AM
ArticMine, the merged mining for Namecoin with very minimal validation can't be compared to the extensive CPU resources required to verify smart contracts.

I have no confidence whatsoever in Rootstock being merge-mined by Bitcoin miners. Fuhgeddaboudit.

Rube Goldberg machines suck.

Time will tell, and I am also unsure if they will get the hashrate. They will need a percentage of the hashrate comparable to that of Namecoin in order to be secure. otherwise they could get attacked for the reasons you cited above. Of course if it fails or even if it works then one can learn from it and build something better.

Edit: For starters they also need  a coin that can scale as the main chain for this to work and Bitcoin does not meet this requirement.
617  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Andreas M. Antonopoulos is "bullish on Ethereum" on: June 20, 2016, 03:05:37 AM
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Bitcoin can't validate the Counterparty invariants, thus Counterparty can't have decentralized consensus. Sorry you can't put smart contracts on the Bitcoin block chain. Rootstock is making a side-chain instead.

But the larger issue is scaling. And also of course the fact that Turing-complete scripts can blow up. To solve this, you need me. I've been working on the technological issues for 2 - 3 years.

A side chain is the proper way to do this, and it can be merged mined with the main chain. Scaling as we both know is a very serious issue so one has to start with a base coin that can scale on the main chain properly even before adding smart contracts. Then address the scaling issues of the smart contracts themselves.

Side-chains are insecure:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/side-chains-challenges-potential-1397614121
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7613520
http://www.rootstock.io/blog/sidechains-drivechains-and-rsk-2-way-peg-design

My expectation is that Blockstream (+ the Chinese mining cartel) are going to either outright break or centralize the mining/control of Bitcoin. We need to be ready with something that works correctly for when they do.

It is not that simple. Namecoin has 35% of Bitcoin's hashrate and generates only 0.063% of the miner reward revenue. 1 NMC = 0.00063 XBT. This is actually comparable to 10% of the current Bitcoin fee revenue as a percentage of the overall miner reward. Furthermore, My take is that in the case of a pegged sidechain there is actually an even lower cost to merge mine because one does not have to sell a different coin in an exchange. For many miners the hassle of exchanging the NMC for XBT is likely not worth the trouble; however in the case of a sidechain with a two way peg this exchange issue is avoided. In the case of a pegged sidechain say generating the say even as low as 0.5% of the main chain revenue one could expect and even greater proportion of the main chain's hashrate. Yes one would need 17.5 of the Bitcoin hashrate to launch a 51% attack against Namecoin; however for a Bitcoin pool such an attack has potentially a much higher downside, in the negative public relation such an attack could generate alone, than the comparably minuscule reward such an attack could produce..

This issue of double spend attacks could for example be dealt with by treating transactions between chains as coinbase transactions (120 blocks rather than 6 blocks).

I do agree that is requires a fair amount further research, but I am not prepared to simply dismiss it based on just the comments in the articles. Namecoin does provide some very compelling evidence over many years that merged mining can work even when there is a marked difference in the revenue generated by the main chain and the merged mined alt-coin or side chain.
618  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: June 19, 2016, 09:58:20 PM

Edit: Ok, ..... Stop being a dick now.

Get used to it. This is why most everyone has dumped this shit and moved on. Be happy with your $1 to $2 tsunami.

If it's klee today it will be someone else who will keep shitting on their own, and brag about how they made money at your expense right here. Why do you think even with all the shit going on no one wants to look here?

1) How is people talking shit the reason everyone is "dumping"? Are people dumping? Couldn't tell...

2) I see this thread has 1,285,378 views... I guess you got a point... It's like a ghost town in here!

Great, another foot soldier. Nice that you are stuck in your 3 day needle. I'm sure you are sleeping well with that thought of good ole libertarian views and the amalgam of ring signatures and freedom. This thread becomes more entertaining when peons like you stand up and fight the war for the overlords dumping over you. There was a time when you could recruit more new retards into this game, but that time is gone so it's that much more fun. Some of us will definitely try our best that newbies not fall for this crap anymore, beyond that it is their prerogative.

Let me also tell you that I hate the maggot trolls like primer-, BCX, Spoetnik ever since he went full retard on monero (meaningless personal drivel), all these other shitcoin peddlers. Fact is they did little to damage the perception of the coin, it was all done by and within this community itself. It's funny that pegasus and the likes go sobbing to Voorhees (who says he will read about Monero lmao, really?), Antpoo and the other whales. You also don't see gmaxwell or all those initial day intellectuals pushing monero anymore. They do have vested interests in zcash, but unfortunately thats the way baseball go ..

Actually the long term trend in the market capitalization chart of Monero says that funds are moving into Monero rather than out of Monero. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/#charts.
619  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: June 19, 2016, 09:39:16 PM
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Thank you for your response.
I am sure on the latest version. Good to know the only syncing process can slow down a PC hd drive. But I never faced such lag with bitcoin core or any other alt wallet client. Yes, all the syncing processes took time, but they never made my PC unusable. At less not from my experience.
Don't take it as a critique please.

I suspect the hard drive. I have no problems running Monero on a computer with a rotary hard drive provided it is one of the larger ones. I run Monero on an 8 year old computer with a 2 TB rotary hard drive without any problems. I suspect one can go down to 1 TB or even 500 GB on a rotary hard drive and still be ok; however I have not tested this.
620  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Andreas M. Antonopoulos is "bullish on Ethereum" on: June 19, 2016, 09:06:52 PM
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Bitcoin can't validate the Counterparty invariants, thus Counterparty can't have decentralized consensus. Sorry you can't put smart contracts on the Bitcoin block chain. Rootstock is making a side-chain instead.

But the larger issue is scaling. And also of course the fact that Turing-complete scripts can blow up. To solve this, you need me. I've been working on the technological issues for 2 - 3 years.

A side chain is the proper way to do this, and it can be merged mined with the main chain. Scaling as we both know is a very serious issue so one has to start with a base coin that can scale on the main chain properly even before adding smart contracts. Then address the scaling issues of the smart contracts themselves.

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