1.) They may very well have 401ks through their company in which they are employed as well which would make it their money as well.

2.) They are the ones who get to set up the system for their business or at least give the marching orders which still makes amusing that they wouldn't make the effort if it was really that important to them.

3.) If the company matches some level of contributions then the company is still funneling money into assets held by these companies even if that money now belongs to the employee.

4.) It is still ironic.

Very interesting link, thanks for posting it.

The first example in the link though is one that takes into account religious considerations (Islamic), and the Forbes article did list specific religiously conscious plans to choose from. I understand that they may not always be available, but I find it rather likely (just going off assumptions) that they would be more readily available in this case than the examples provided in your article (simply owing to the relative demand of a Christian conscious choice in the US over say an Islamic choice).

And once again, I think this entire argument rather misses the drama with which Hobby Lobby approached this. They threatened closure of their business over being forced to being linked to immoral practices (however tenuous). If it is really THAT much of a concern for them they could either locate only where they could take advantage of religiously conscious 401k plans or they could do what they originally said they would have to in the face of such a moral outrage: close shop. Either way their 401k is still ironic given their PR campaign during this legal process.

Some think Lyndon Johnson was not one of our best presidents.

But Johnson did pass the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, and that was and is a really big deal.

Today I saw one effect of outlawing dscrimination in education. In 1964 there were 365,000 African American bachelor's degrees awarded. In 2014 5.1 million were awarded.

Imagine how many lives are changed by that!

One more thought; if you think there is no role for government, try to imagine this outcome without government's involvement.

The Founding Fathers on regulating corporations.

1. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
– Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

2. “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
– Thomas Jefferson.

“The power of all corporations ought to be limited, [...] the growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses.”
– James Madison
The Founding Fathers on war.

3. “He who is the author of a war, lets loose the whole contagion of hell, and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death.”
– Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V, 1797

4. “War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.” -Thomas Jefferson
The Founding Fathers on liberalism.
5. “As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington
The Founding Fathers on religion.

6. “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

7. “We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

8. “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814
The Founding Fathers on taxes.

9. “As to Taxes, they are evidently inseparable from Government. It is impossible without them to pay the debts of the nation, to protect it from foreign danger, or to secure individuals from lawless violence and rapine.” –= Alexander Hamilton: Address to the Electors of the State of New York, March, 1801

http://aattp.org/9-founding-fathers-quotes-that-will-make-conservatives-heads-explode/

Exactly. So it is absolutely possible if they have a high earning portfolio, I haven't taken a look at the current numbers myself so I can't compare all of the options that would have been available to them, but the Forbes article seemed to think that they were comparable in their expense ratio. Not the most solid of sourcing's, but once again, the only real thing to go off of that has thus far been presented.

Only assuming non-comparable earnings correct?

Freedom is sometimes messy but the results are worth it.
AUTHOR:   Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)
QUOTATION:   “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

                          “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

"Phil Schneider - D.U.M.B.S (Underground Bases, Alien Greys, New World Order) HQ FULL LENGTH" - This is the craziest nonsense conspiracy video i have ever seen, worth a laugh. Basically this guy is some high up engineer who lost his hand in a battle with aliens, and there are secret bases underground where human vs aliens battle is taking place. Would make a good movie script.

The Declaration of Independence is a timeless and constantly relevant reminder of the great experiment in human liberty begun by ancestors long gone but never forgotten. Oppression by a powerful government had finally become more than the people of the American colonies could bear. That government was thrown off in favor of a nation that would progress from its troubled beginnings to become the greatest power on Earth, not because of any evil intent as was the case with so many great powers of history but, because of its inherent decency. It has been said that America is great because it is good. I truly believe that. And I believe that goodness comes from the individual people who work every day to make America a unique and generous and creative force in the world. I worry that, as we celebrate our independence today, many of our fellow Americans are trying to move us toward a state of ever increasing dependence and away from reliance on the institutions that have made us strong - faith, family, common ideals of personal liberty and responsibility. Freedom is sometimes messy but the results are worth it.

As you go about enjoying the anniversary of our independence please pause for a moment and ponder the things that have made our nation the wonderful place it is and reflect on what we can do to continue this grand experiment in freedom. There are very few Americans seeking to abandon this land. Countless millions around the world seek to come and share this great nation and her bountiful blessings as they make their own contribution. We must be doing something right.

Happy independence day to you too!

Which ultimately (to skip the long progression of positive legal precedence) has its roots in supposed natural law yes? So I reiterate the request.

Explain your understanding of natural law first so there is a base from which to work from?

So in other words, this is an assumption as well and one that doesn't generally favor standard practices (by your own admission). I acknowledge that the author didn't source the 401k participation by the Greens (and the burden of proof would fall on him), so I am left with the decision to either investigate further myself which I don't really care to do since, as previously stated, I'm not very interested in the topic, or choose between a slight inclination towards either Forbes or you. i'm willing to listen, but you haven't yet explained to me why religious 401k options for businesses exist if businesses aren't allowed to ever choose them.

I also find the argument that it is harder to choose a religious minded 401k option to be an uncompelling defense seeing as how they were perfectly willing to threan closure and take the government all the way to the Supreme Court over small details of their health insurance. They don't seem to have any qualms with slight inconvenience on that front.

I also don't think that they maliciously or even knowingly put their assets in those companies. I find it much more likely that it represents a minor case of managerial negligence in terms of being informed. I just find it a rather ironic happenstance.

You get a few loud conservative voices who take a job in a union shop and  somehow think that the union hasn't got the right to speak for the general welfare of the members of the union because they pay dues. But they sure like the benefits the union got for them. If you don't want to work in a union shop, what's stopping you from walking away and going to work somewhere where there isn't one - say... Walmart? I'll tell you what it is - it's the fact that they like a 40 hour work week, they like getting benefits like paid vacation and medical insurance, and they like getting a living wage. The fact that the Union is responsible for making all those things happen means nothing to them. Rush Limbaugh told them that the union is holding them back and they believe him. Labor unions are, as you said, the ONLY voice that working people have in the public venue. Individually we working class people have no power. None. We haven't got millions to spend buying the ear of legislators. But COLLECTIVELY; pooling our resources and speaking as a group we have both sufficient funds to compete in lobbying AND large voting blocks to get politicians' attention. That's why unions exist, and why they are crucial to the future of America.

And what natural law are you going with here? It was a very Hobbesian method of legal structuring.

Do you find it standard for management to opt out of their own company's 401k programs?You haven't provided any supporting evidence that they couldn't chose existing options designed to avoid such moral clashes.

Tell that to the inhabitants of the DRCongo who legally had to pay around 300% of their business revenues to the central government.

One is perfectly capable of debating the merits of actions outside of the letter of the law. In fact, the development of good and just lawsets depends on such public discourse and oversight.

I'm perfectly open to that, but I find it odd that religious 401k options would exist if companies could never choose them. Do you have any supporting evidence for your claim?

The article addressed both of those points in its July update if you keep reading. The returns are also comparable.