Weekly Update #6- This week we have seen a lot more proof-of-stake blocks generated on the block chain. More and more users are seeing stake values and getting familiar with the proof-of-stake process. It is expected that proof-of-stake difficulty continue to drop from the current 16 in the following week. Eventually proof-of-stake block should approach 10-minute block spacing target and proof-of-work blocks approach ~30-minute spacing.
- I have published an auxiliary transaction proposal for a future major release of ppcoin. In my opinion it would enable ppcoin to serve as a general peer-to-peer infrastructure for many advanced future peer-to-peer applications, such as marketplace. Interested developers are welcome to review the proposal and give comments and suggestions.
- Work has started on v0.3. My current plan is to have v0.3 ready within four weeks approximately.
Thank all for your kind support and have a great week!
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I don't understand how this is better than BTC. It seems highly inflationary and unpredictable. If I wanted that I would just use fiat.
The mint design is not better than BTC, it's comparable. This is from FAQ: Is there a cap on total money supply like Bitcoin's 21 million?
There is no hard cap other than a 2 billion coin max put into the code for now. But that should not be interpreted as an approachable cap, as it might never get anywhere close to that. It should not be considered a hard cap either as it may get lifted but that's likely not needed in a very very long time. Due to the nature of the mint rate design it's not possible to predict a final limit as it depends heavily on market participation, as well as the influences between proof-of-stake minting and fee destruction (there may not even be a mathematical limit if minting continues to outpace fee destruction). What we do know is that the proof-of-work minting would slow down exponentially according to Moore's Law (we are aware that Moore's Law eventually would stop to apply), and proof-of-stake minting introduces at most 1% annual inflation. So generally speaking it is still a very low future-inflation design comparable to Bitcoin.
In 0.2 release a 'moneysupply' stat is included in the getinfo output so everyone can see how many coins are in the market.
I designed this part so that it feels more beautiful/natural to my taste and doesn't involve fix time schedule and fixed cap, although downside is that some people will not feel confident with it's future inflation behavior. That's expected. I commented about Satoshi's mint rate design before and I think it is wise to have a fixed cap for a first cryptocurrency. For ppcoin I am experimenting and would like to see how market responds to a comparable design without fixed cap. Initially ppcoin inflation rate may drop faster than Bitcoin early stage due to dropping of mint per block. Another factor is that proof-of-work blocks are reduced (roughly from 10 minutes spacing to 30 minutes) while proof-of-stake blocks become frequent. Above is my informed opinion but it's up to yourself to decide whether you are happy with its inflation prospects. |
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BTC = 21 Million LTC = 84 Million SC = Up to the guy who made sc... So what about PPCoin? Someone told me 2 billion but I kinda doubt it would be trading as high as it is if that were true. Please some one tell me the truth  Thanks. Short answer: up to Moore's Law and Market participation. Long answer: see our FAQ regarding cap of money supply. |
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oh ok thanx I wasnt sure what was going on I thought the client had some kind of strange bug in it.
seeing 0.00 generated and negative blocks i wasnt sure if it was stake or a bug. thanks for clearing this up
Alternatively you can also watch dreamwatcher's block explorer and the balance shown on your address there includes everything (balance, newmint and stake). Remember you may have multiple addresses. |
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Yeah unfortunately gui is still not supported at this moment. You can check your stake amount with command line getinfo, but I believe there is at least one community gui wallet displaying the stake value but I don't remember which one does.
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LOL smoothie, you sounded a bit desperate. I have no obligation to reveal how many coins I have, just like Satoshi has no obligation to reveal his. If it's all about a tiny chance to make some money this project likely would never have even gotten started. I am sorry to tell you that I have means to support myself otherwise and I don't really need the wishful profit you are so jealous about on top of plenty political risk to run head-on into some governments. I am honored to work for the cause of liberty, and that's all that really motivated me to see this project released. My guess that's the same motivation Satoshi had as well, otherwise Bitcoin wouldn't be born either. Let's make some peace and move on with life now  |
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Perhaps the creator could have taught us all how PPC worked before it launched. IMO him not disclosing all the details and answering all the FAQs before launching is equivalent to PUMP and DUMP. It gives him an unfair advantage on how to trade/hold coins.
Bullshit in my book.
I have no obligation to release it months/years beforehand so copycats can jump on us. It's your problem if you can not fathom of all the difficulties a designer has to go through in order to bring something to the market. It's fair enough in my book ppcoin has no premine nor tax reserved for developers. The programming job on ppcoin already cost around $100k-200k if you know what good programmers cost these days, this does not even include the innovations we bring forth which does not have a price on it. So feel free to continue trolling. What have you done for cryptocurrency other than trashing other people's hard work? |
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Well just an idea of what a good aux chain for PPC might also do if I get enough time I might setup a MailCoin, where by mining gives you more credits to use the system, or you can buy them, it's distributed and encrypted. Sounds great so we can touch base again when you have more concrete plan and requirements |
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I did not mean pull as in remove, pull in as far as make a copy for themselves, maybe in their wallet file. Any machine, aslong as you have your keys, you could read your recent mail. The 1c/KB/message I think works fine. Most "messages" arnt much more than a few kb's. Obviously that could be changed in the future.
Just throwing out ideas.
Ah I see. Although the application software is meant to manage their own copies so these messages won't be stored in wallet. Yes as long as you have identity keys you can always reconstruct a copy of your messages that have not been garbage collected. This can be done by the application via commands similar to getblock/gettransaction. I don't know if it's a good idea to reuse wallet keys for identity keys, or if there is requirements for wallet to store a different type of keys for identity. |
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If the items you are selling are smart property they should not be garbage-collected as their whole point is the blockchain provides a permanent record of ownership. If they are not smart property you might as well put them on your website and just put directions to your website in the blockchain (thus likely use namecoin to do it).
-MarkM-
This has nothing to do with smart property you can still put them on the main block chain as you wish. This is enabling a peer-to-peer marketplace. Selling on a market with well-managed reputation system is day and night different than just 'put them on your website and just put directions to your website'. Also without the aux garbage collection feature the scalability of the block chain is greatly reduced (even ebay doesn't online all your history). Think about this, it's meant to compete with amazon/ebay etc the 1st generation internet e-commerce giants, but without central infrastructure to support it. Of course if you want to save some fees you can still put links in your listing. |
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Strange suggestion,
Would it be possible to build anonymous-messaging on top of an Aux Chain/Blocks?
Messages sent signed with keys, encrypted with known GPG keys; could set max lenth of X bytes, might be a nicer messaging system than say TorMail; also as they expire after X time, it would allow the "client" to if so the receipient wants, "pull" the message off of the chain.
I am sure it's possible, but keep in mind data are stored on block chain for a fee (1 cent per kilobyte/message). Also there is no way for the sender or receiver to 'pull' their messages from block chain, in fact any node can choose to not to garbage collect auxiliary blocks and keep them forever. But since the message is encrypted so maybe that's not a problem. |
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It will be interesting to see if any developers do jump on it, as no one has yet in all this time used namecoin to do thatr, which would be perfectly feasible but just has not, for whatever reason, actually been done.
-MarkM-
It's probably even possible with bitcoin, but development resists this for the (valid) concern of block chain bloat. Also I think there is the issue of lack of profit motivation (no profit making model) to create the market software. The aux block proposal addresses the block chain bloat concern, by separating the storage of auxiliary transactions and making them garbage-collectable. Also native support of multiple application-specific auxiliary transaction output is definitely some help with the application development. As to motivation in making a peer-to-peer market software, I may consider organizing a bounty for this. |
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I am planning this for next year. So here I'd like to gather community feedback and interest. To enable future peer-to-peer marketplace and other advanced p2p applications I am considering adding auxiliary transaction support for a major future release of ppcoin. Main design point is - Each regular block is associated with an auxiliary block.
- Auxiliary blocks are not permanent. They expire after some fixed time and are garbage collected by ppcoind.
- Each auxiliary block includes a set of auxiliary transactions.
- Auxiliary transactions also has expiration and may include a (key, value) data item in each output script.
- Auxiliary transactions also pay transaction fee.
- Auxiliary transaction output cannot be spent by regular transactions.
- Auxiliary transaction may spend regular transaction output only if it's a special pay-to-auxiliary type.
- Auxiliary transaction/auxiliary block is not allowed to mint coins.
The above describes the internals of a recyclable auxiliary block chain feature. A potential p2p marketplace software that communicates with ppcoind may implements: - Listings are inserted into block chain as auxiliary transaction outputs.
- Listing includes seller's cryptographic identity, item description and asking price. Output has amount 0 and can be spent by anyone with another auxiliary transaction. Spender effectively claims the listing (becomes buyer) and may encrypt his/her shipping address in the auxiliary transaction output.
- Buyer now makes payment according to listing instructions.
- Users leave rating/feedback via an auxiliary transaction for the target identity.
- Manage identity/reputation/web-of-trust.
- Index listings and provide search functionality.
Note this feature is a generic design and may enable other type of p2p applications, for example, a domain name system similar to namecoin. Comments, suggestions and feature discussions are very welcome Also looking for any community interest in designing marketplace or other softwares taking advantage of this feature. |
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Some transactions' hash seem to be wrong in block explorer:
Transaction feba619bc8244581c7e6fcb5115c39f92fa29a5060e3541749433e393988f242 has a different hash in block explorer and block 7479 is having problem with it as input (unknown input)
sunny> ppcoind getblock 00000000000291c0d0b4b790efde847d0fdf174743b90ae7ffe0230520043aa4 true
{
"hash" : "00000000000291c0d0b4b790efde847d0fdf174743b90ae7ffe0230520043aa4",
"size" : 1092,
"height" : 7294,
"version" : 1,
"merkleroot" : "6e002b20ee46408f6b29b5a6a6f8905dcfc466493b96470e41c45bc9c90644d9",
"time" : "2012-09-26 07:27:14 UTC",
"nonce" : 3825183266,
"bits" : "1b05ef4b",
"difficulty" : 11042.61017795,
"mint" : 975.41000000,
"previousblockhash" : "000000000005c8dc5d3edf9e065ee8ddab470913e4c89d97b9f115ce0dcef1f8",
"nextblockhash" : "000000000003976d9d6d07bb15600456486a35c07a340567c9c354181e07588b",
"tx" : [
"49217e04493c98ff04b7bdfc91e0b70612ef60c5ab5b2a149421ddbb4db73f1e base",
" 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 -1",
" out 975.41 03339f8036 OP_CHECKSIG",
"feba619bc8244581c7e6fcb5115c39f92fa29a5060e3541749433e393988f242 user",
" 0fb99e3ee238da0abf92278ce94eee93335efe346adf501818cc99ab9d52c1ae 0",
" c0a66c842f7700d1566f574597b0fb56d39e45125ac22e690dd7df2faf68adae 1",
" 07df20ee2064a150d14f80575a9800f8728b79082eeca62639cd4be099c0c046 0",
" b915c42a295d1e83f44b96a210905d1994fb8e3c7e79f2ea9a855ca16cd87144 1",
" 887e89e779a5fceae6992832a14f3d9e02bed833afa57d41da7b901333eab3c0 1",
" out 0.010011 OP_DUP OP_HASH160 eb085e0dc8 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
" out 7833.985788 OP_DUP OP_HASH160 0edb666f66 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG"
]
}
sunny> ppcoind getblock 7703bbb329a66ddf2765e34f90d6f51fb94ae2938b767de60fafb17896c7736d true
{
"hash" : "7703bbb329a66ddf2765e34f90d6f51fb94ae2938b767de60fafb17896c7736d",
"size" : 2762,
"height" : 7479,
"version" : 1,
"merkleroot" : "41053f77cf76987805a2f08ec405eee48c1ef58d739c56c5993c1e0b414ef9c2",
"time" : "2012-09-27 21:17:19 UTC",
"nonce" : 0,
"bits" : "1c08d08c",
"difficulty" : 29.04216204,
"mint" : 2.18000000,
"previousblockhash" : "8f2bdea060d80d5781d63eba8d2da183890e760083aa780da363949f07608839",
"nextblockhash" : "000000000002d10c3d7a632500300916c3bd1b2563e7108c804ced1d89a5ba2c",
"tx" : [
"88081cf661bfb045298104932f122834a30ce365639ffbddf0f68fb23cc69eda base",
" 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 -1",
" out 0.00 ",
"46b31ea8684f780e39fb1094d472111c9dfc5f84cc36924f70827db07b895223 stake",
" 9a7360363484186973ae6a0d4056af391b045e3e41740635ac83cf10a8bc05c2 0",
" out 0.00 ",
" out 1036.10 023d651b08 OP_CHECKSIG",
" out 1036.11 023d651b08 OP_CHECKSIG",
"7eb01f1ec11fd93df816ed123eb0d6a9f11b36dc3c3981d5add030914becbae0 user",
" a542b16b3d4f48128bc9861ab83ecdf205217978c3a0807039620a28f2b4863b 0",
" feba619bc8244581c7e6fcb5115c39f92fa29a5060e3541749433e393988f242 0",
" 06765d3b7e1eeb1ef5ba0305db9ee8b328d439a93581b767a7d406477f694a5d 1",
" 9a2bf568934a80659c5558e22ae9b629958535b744500f6a26412e1ef20a5978 1",
" e63285516411a084ae5517edd0edd30b50b39ed350b48cd694d6b2bb77d71c18 1",
" 8f2047aff0ddd8bc641aee047ded8c5574c8eaa01c21d5894cd01e66246d0959 1",
" cd3031778ac0d4a534f403ecf7c4c34a71df459abbfa75b4e38fa0fc4e684668 0",
" c3dc4d967afc52d7378ae657377e5b0455cfef00443cb9519b6f2ce417dd74e1 1",
" 31d92c5096ccda4acbf47633789a17be7ff9d6329cf0e179ada718362e5af4d7 1",
" dd817694241763491ff1b87da3e92f1d72eb6184386cd2ce930f825c7a6eb0bc 1",
" a15bc95c34c03c27dde1c58dba6f37be3ac99cae469b5abd80ec88c15837dca0 1",
" 129d830eafd591a1ea8b0783872e8fd8be5626d9ffdc37ecd6f776ed34d63378 1",
" 98b048ffa53f695220d9e0d872520a37842856ced8689c48f9b99fe15a822780 1",
" 3f9f9ff1c6ba0a837073bb4e33c80e1d6f5ffe0c9d0bda0cb100f1be0bb78979 10",
" a2be504ac5bf6c13591eef487d1d45db35b28a2f8fb5cd962e8cf189423bd3e7 1",
" out 0.010007 OP_DUP OP_HASH160 220b373974 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
" out 6269.97 OP_DUP OP_HASH160 9db18ded60 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG"
]
}
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Thus as an Exchange operator I have only one possibility, regularly move all coins out and back in, thus combining the small transactions into larger transactions.
Yes. I keep most funds in a cold wallet so regularly send the hot wallet back to the cold wallet, and retop up the hot wallet from the cold wallet so it's compact. Ah nice to know how you workaround this issue. I have seen this during testing of ppcoin as well. |
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Cunicula you are one of the more reasonable ones among fellow designers and willing to give some credit to ppcoin project. So thanks for that. I'd give you that you and meni started your designs a couple months before us. Although we are the first to bring a working design to the market. |
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I do not see any stake listed yet in my getinfo, yet mined a block my first day, which I had thought was one of the first few days of the code being released. So I don't know what that is about, I thought having my mined coins online would mean after 30 days they would count as stake. Maybe not, maybe that field will only show anything once some of them have managed to mine a stake block or something.
Mining it makes no sense since it cannot be merged-mined since any hashing power diverted to it would be diverted from mining seven other chains, it is silly to spend hashes on this that could instead be spent on seven chains all at the same time via merged mining.
-MarkM-
A bit surprised you haven't sold all your ppc Keep it running eventually you will see some stake. Difficulty is now down to 30~40 and will continue to drop for proof-of-stake. Yes it only shows up if you have found a proof-of-stake block. |
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***AHEM****, nice core dumps by the ppcoin daemon, FYI there is nothing on that server except for the PPC Explorer, the auto generated PPC wallet is unused.  Ouch could you pm me some related logs for the core dump? |
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Is there anything about the ppcoin protocol that will prevent bitcoin ASIC's from mining it? If there is, I'd see ppc as a legit alternate mining market where non ASIC tech could potentially thrive.
Unlike Litecoin we do not try to hamper ASIC technology based on some democratic ideology. My understanding of the market is that whoever invests in ASIC probably deserves the mining income, as everyone is free to do so by their own choice. Not to mention once ASIC is fully deployed Bitcoin network would become more secure against 51% attack. But I don't think initially ASIC owners would mine ppcoin as our mining market is quite small, and our continuous adjustment of difficulty would be too much risk for them to lose money compared to mining bitcoin. But we shall see what happens in a few short months I guess. If so happens that Litecoin benefits a lot from this technology shift I am happy for Litecoin too as that'd be their deserved reward from the market. |
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I have updated FAQ section on checkpointing: Why do you need central checkpointing?
As of our v0.2 centrally broadcasted checkpointing is no longer a critical part of the protocol. It's main purpose now is to defend the network during the initial growth period and help ensure a smooth upgrade path if critical vulnerability is found. We are confident that central checkpointing can now be gradually weakened and eventually removed to achieve similar decentralization level of Bitcoin as the ppcoin network matures.
There is still some alter coin designer throwing FUD out there to claim that our design is not a proper proof-of-stake design and is based on centralized checkpointing. So I would like to repeat here that central checkpointing now only serves as bootstrapping safeguard, not a permanent part of the protocol. As to Rosenfeld/Cunicula's proof-of-stake proposals on Bitcoin wiki, they are competing proof-of-stake designs but not necessarily better than ppcoin. The design goals are different. PPCoin is designed to demonstrate that a future energy efficient block chain is possible, i.e. solving the energy consumption issue of cryptocurrency. This is a very hard problem to solve and in my opinion would be an important step forward for future cryptocurrency technology. Also we came up with ppcoin design probably around or before when Rosenfeld/Cunicula did theirs (we started design work in October 2011), not to mention their designs today are still somewhat proof-of-concept and may or may not be ready for any implementation. From my point of view I am all for competing in free market fairly and friendly, and all the different alter currencies should treat each other part of a larger team to further advance cryptocurrency technology and maybe even a higher cause for humanity. That's why we choose to continue the tradition of Nakamoto and release ppcoin in MIT license and open for everyone to fork, experiment and compete. For me I am committed to continue work on and watch ppcoin network operations and see ppcoin fulfill its promises. Thank you all for your kind support! (Correction: As cunicula points out below, he and Meni Rosenfeld started their designs as early as July 2011 so about three months earlier than ppcoin design) |
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