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1081  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is Ripple a Bitcoin Killer or Complementer? Founder of Mt Gox will launch Ripple on: December 13, 2012, 06:35:35 PM
The pricing of risk is a specialized industry.
I don't think that you should be so "specialized" when you give credit to people that you know day by day.
You aren't forced to give credit to anyone.

Yes correct, and that's good.

But to the extent that Ripple users abstain from credit issuance to others, what is the use of the system?
And to the extent that Ripple users proceed with credit issuance to others, can/will it be done in a profitable/efficient manner?

I have to say that I think the problem isn't that people are forced or not to issue credit. It's that they will feel obligated. Loans between friends and family can cause a lot of tension as it is. Adding a system such that formalize this system of spreading ill will is probably going to lead to a lot of pissed off people.

"You can lend to me, Ripple's going to keep me honest."

"It's been a whole extra year Bob, don't make me mark this debt as unfulfilled in Ripple."

If you connect lender and borrower through mutual social connections I can only imagine it getting messier.

A lot of why bitcoin works is that the permanence of transactions keeps people cautious. Reputation is everything and people who reliably maintain their end of the bargain get noticed and get business. When build credit into a system while putting forward social proximity as a substitute for demonstrated reliability people's already shitty risk calculations are going to take them to dark places.
1082  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Who Thinks BFL Will Release There ASICS Before BTC on: December 13, 2012, 05:12:26 PM
If they come, beginning to feel a little paranoid about everything that's going on...... Heard rumors that BFL might be going bankrupt also. (cant verify this though)

I'm pretty sure that if there going bankrupt that it really dosen't matter,, everyone would lawyer up and sue in which BFL knows that. no need to worry, im sure next month will be the golden month

Surely you jest.

Shame bankruptcy under the right conditions would keep them from being required to pay. Remember that bankruptcy laws made Donald Trump a very rich person.
1083  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: The future of Bitcoins on: December 12, 2012, 03:42:19 PM
Distributed mining is the defense against attack.
Which implies that it needs a defense. Sans that it can be brought down. Governments can ban GPUs, mining rigs etc. so the defense gets weak while they can have powerful hardware.

What does the technology have to prevent such a thing from occurring?


Bitch please, ban computer parts?
They don't need to make a PC revolution to make a 51% attack, they have lots of super-computers to make a lot of floating points operations that, if they want it today, they can make the 51% attack.

Not really.

There are super computers, but generally they are already committed to tasks other than fucking with bitcoins and floating point operations also don't have much to do with SHA-2 hashing. There isn't a single supercomputer that could 51% the bitcoin network on its own. Traditional and even newer GPGPU supercomputers are actually a really shitty way to attempt a 51% attack.
1084  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Devcoin on: December 11, 2012, 02:36:45 PM
https://www.devda.ch

Wordcount and Devpoints integrated.
By now rewards for inviting a frend 1000 Devpoints and login 1 Devpoint once per 24 Hours.
Devpoints are system internal with the purpose to keep the load off the devcoin chain.
Devpoints are for various activity like writing a howto or answering userquestions, providing support, translating or creating content etc in the devda.ch system granted. They are exchangable for devcoins (not released yet!) or can be used in the shop in exchange for other goods.

Doesn't seem to be sending emails with login information...
icoin is sending emails in batches every 5 min, so just wait.

Sorry but hotmail and probably other free mail services dont work, please try it with google mail, the maildelivery happens instantly.

Thanks, yeah it just never appeared in hotmail, but gmail worked.
1085  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Devcoin on: December 11, 2012, 06:45:32 AM
https://www.devda.ch

Wordcount and Devpoints integrated.
By now rewards for inviting a frend 1000 Devpoints and login 1 Devpoint once per 24 Hours.
Devpoints are system internal with the purpose to keep the load off the devcoin chain.
Devpoints are for various activity like writing a howto or answering userquestions, providing support, translating or creating content etc in the devda.ch system granted. They are exchangable for devcoins (not released yet!) or can be used in the shop in exchange for other goods.

Doesn't seem to be sending emails with login information...
1086  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why do they hate Litecoin? on: December 11, 2012, 06:18:32 AM
SHA256 used in Bitcoin, Terracoin and few other cryptocoins is property of USA. If only people know what that really means ...

Sure it uses SHA-256 which was developed by NSA, but so does EVERYTHING. Banks & fortune 500's use SHA-256, Facebook use SHA-256 for its password database, many Linux distro's store user password's using SHA-256, heck even the software that is running this forum (SMF) has an option to use SHA-256 to hash the password database & I would assume this is the option that is currently being used.

You're totally right about it being property of the US government & AFAIK you technically need a license to use it which obviously we don't have, that isn't a huge problem though, take a look at Linux, many distro's violate a bunch of software patents & licenses and nothing happens from it.

Actually as a standard published by the US government, SHA-256 is in the public domain. All government publications released to the public automatically enter the public domain.
1087  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: @MtGox Staff... when will mtgox change the number of confirmations? on: December 11, 2012, 05:32:26 AM
If anything, I would propose the idea that highly verified customers should be allowed to use their MtGox balances to guarantee against double spending.

MtGox's exposure to a double spend is only what one could withdraw from their account, and the losses one could incur in trading.  If withdrawal is blocked pending confirmation, the exposure to trading could hardly be anywhere near the full balance.  What if every confirmed 1BTC in your Gox account gave you access to 2BTC in zero-confirmation-tradeable deposit?

If I have $1000 in my MtGox account and want to send $1000 more, let's say Gox lets me trade $2000 immediately, I just can't withdraw it.  If I were to double spend, Gox would rightfully lock my account.  Let's say they could liquidate my whole account for $1500 (assume bitcoins just took a dive).  They're still made whole, because the double spend was only $1000 to begin with.  I can't withdraw, so the coins aren't going anywhere.

This would double the value of leaving funds in Gox.  I could have the "benefit" of leaving $2x in my account, while only leaving $x there.



This seems like an interesting idea for allowing margins trading.
1088  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: @MtGox Staff... when will mtgox change the number of confirmations? on: December 11, 2012, 01:21:52 AM
But as far as i read these 6 confirmations are giving nearly no more security. I mean waiting one hour for a digital payment is a big timeframe. Ok, its part of the network but if the waiting time is unneded long it isnt an argument for using bitcoins.

Anyway... i found a workaround but i still dont understand that the outcome of security <> time needed comes out to this result. But its your decision. Maybe im only wrong and the security gain is really worth to note.

From what I understand double spending after even a single confirmation would be nearly impossible, but MtGox is willing to do big transactions. Transactions involving five digit numbers of bitcoins and six or more digit numbers of dollars. When transactions get that big, sometimes you have to take the safest route. Waiting for six confirmations may make things absurdly safe on their end, but they have to do it because any security failings can hit their reputation hard.
1089  Economy / Speculation / Re: why dump 12k+ coins into the market at once? on: December 07, 2012, 02:32:20 PM
The big dump was because someone is "stupid"?

Not necessarily. If I had a five figure number of bitcoins and wanted to buy a house, I'd probably just sell enough of them in one big lump after perusing the bid orders. Even expecting the price of bitcoins to appreciate faster than the mortgage would build interest it would be worth it to not have the debt.

Overall the dump was a good thing for bitcoin. That five digit lump can now be spread around the bitcoin economy and the exchange took it like a champ rebounding like it did. It shows this isn't like the bubble that happened earlier in bitcoin history and with half of all bitcoins minted, some of these older lumps of bitcoin are going to drop into the market from time to time.What would be stupid is if everyone waits till bitcoin hits another record high to do so, because that would be catastrophic to bitcoin's long term health.
1090  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Any speculators buying ASICs for altcoins? on: December 07, 2012, 05:32:10 AM
Nah, the K20 will still be pretty slow.  It's designed mostly for DP FP ops and not integer ops.  It's actually still slower than a 7970 there, too.

Ah, I just looked at the core count and assumed.
1091  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Any speculators buying ASICs for altcoins? on: December 07, 2012, 04:34:06 AM
I will love to see those butterfly fpga modified to mine LTC. I would buy at leas one for sure. Regarding mining an alt coin, only with merged mining. If you support an altcoin, a better way to support it is mining btc and then selling those btc for you favorite alt coin.

How would you modify a BFL FPGA to mine LTC?

no idea, I have no BFL FPGA. But i supouse BFL could do it, adding some ram, reprograming the fpga....

Pretty much you'd have to reprogram the FPGA, but that isn't a trivial task. Even for the simpler SHA-512 used by bitcoin it took time before people had it working.

Scrypt needs a lot of memory, but you can alleviate that to an extent by throwing more computing power at it. The thing is in the absence of the extra memory scrypt is designed to degrade in a way that becomes disproportionally more expensive in terms of additional calculations needed. You'd need a very expensive FPGA with a sizeable amount of onboard memory to make it worth even trying to begin programming it for scrypt.

A better bet if you are serious about LTC mining performance would probably be one of the new Tesla K20's from NVIDIA now that they've introduced an architecture to replace Fermi that doesn't suck for crypto. The problem is whether you are interested in committing $4,000 in hardware to LTC.
1092  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Atruk Signing Bonus on: December 07, 2012, 04:08:40 AM
Atruk has written more than a thousand words on devtome:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=philosophy_of_physical_realism

and so got the fifth, four generation share signing bonus for writing:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#signing_bonus

There are now five four share bonuses remaining. He will also get earnings for writing:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#earnings_per_word


Thanks

I managed to install the client from the November 29th source package. Initially qmake and make failed so I managed to put it together with the following steps:

  • Installed Qt-creator IDE
  • Opened the project file in Qt-Creator and hit the run button
  • Saw errors and installed libraries as Qt reported them missing
  • Repeated this process for openSSL (libssl), Berkeley (libdb, libberkeleydb) and a metric ton of boost libraries.
  • Some unnecessary libraries may be included in previous line
  • Hit the run button again, got just under five thousand errors
  • Hit the build button anyway
  • Build returns only five errors and a functional binary that started downloading blocks as soon as I fired it up

This should work for anyone else running 64 bit Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.

It seems like an interesting alt-coin experiment.
1093  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Whats the best? on: December 07, 2012, 03:32:18 AM
short answer: http://bitcoinarmory.com/

though it may be a bit to feature rich for a new person, so if keeping it simple is important for you then i would perhaps start with an ewallet at http://blockchain.info/

also consider that you can do a lot of really cool things these days with bitcoins on a smartphone. if you want to be able to transact fluidly with your friends irl than having the ability to scan qr codes is amazing. For this would recommend the blockchain.info android/iphone app. As a warning its a bit buggy, i wouldn't ever store large amounts here and i would test it for a little while with very small amounts before storing a moderate amount (the amount of cash you might carry in your wallet on a normal day).

i cant find a fedora version for it.

You should be able to build it from source http://bitcoinarmory.com/index.php/building-armory-from-source

Just remember that it needs the reference bitcoin-qt client to do anything.
1094  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is there any hope for a random guy with a normal computer? on: December 07, 2012, 03:16:33 AM
Thanks for all the helpful replies. I'm amazed that BTC is already so passé that replacements are emerging.

It's still the dominant cryptocurrency by orders of magnitude. A lot of the alt-coins have collapsed rather quickly (see solidcoin), but litecoin has persisted even if it still trades for a small fraction of what BTC does.
1095  Economy / Speculation / Re: When in 2013 shall Bitcoin break its all-time-high of $31? on: December 06, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
Bitcoin won't scale to very high prices (adoption) yet, the blockchain size will explode and transaction fees will be very high if BTC adoption (and thus price) is going to grow tenfold. Adoption growing hundredfold would break the network.

Bitcoin is not a mature technology yet.

Actually, I think the intention of the mainline developers is to lower the transaction fee over time as the value of bitcoin rises relative to other currencies.
1096  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Getting more node participation on: December 06, 2012, 11:25:09 AM
Stratum/Electrum

Only need to solve the web-based wallet part.

I think a great way to encourage people running nodes is by making it easy to connect a feature rich and network light mobile wallet to you own personal electrum-type server. That way your phone, tablet, or frequently disconnected because you drag it everywhere laptop can have an instantly available wallet without trusting third party servers.

The electrum server and stratum are freely available, but it would be nice if some of the bigger bitcoin news and information sites put together a guide for the mobile bitcoin user doing business in person.
1097  Other / Off-topic / Re: Deciding between a Liberal Arts education and a regular education on: December 05, 2012, 05:30:49 AM
Even the big schools on some level do offer something in the way of a compact environment. On most sufficiently large campus if you did engineering, that portion of your studies would be contained within the College of engineering for example. For your general education courses and such you would still be tossed into the sea of the larger university.

There are medium sized regional schools though that tend to have the strong engineering programs that liberal arts colleges generally lack. One example would be Missouri Science and Technology in Rolla, but the downside of studying there is being in Rolla Missouri. If you are looking at state schools though all but the most neglected campuses usually boast fairly solid engineering programs. Private universities in general tend to be a crapshoot for engineering though and even the large, selective, and well endowed can be shamed by mid tier states school in engineering if nothing else. Some of them might throw some serious money around trying to get you to enroll, and then you can take the money you saved and go to an prestige graduate program.

If you want to do computer science or computer engineering though a SLAC is a generally safe bet for the full course of study. I'm guessing you don't though because it seems all the prospective engineering always want to do mechanical with the exception for the three weirdos in every class who want to do civil out of the gate (the rest of the civil engineers come fleeing from the job market and apprenticeship requirements in architecture).

I'm skeptical of the 3+2 programs that involve a liberal arts college and another university's engineering school. It just seems way too much like the less expensive community college transfer option.

You mentioned Claremont McKenna, and if you apply there why not Harvey Mudd?
1098  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: New AMD APUs... [AMD A8-Series] on: December 05, 2012, 04:50:34 AM
My A10 system officially got like 4.2MH/s with the CPU (lol) and with the Open CL miner 72.1 MH/s at stock speeds with no flags.

EDIT: I finally found some better flags that someone else recommended and now it's 88.2 MH/s

Just don't mine with the CPU please.. you don't want to waste all that energy Wink


If anyone wants a low water mark for the APUs, I fired up some miners on my E350 powered laptop. 950KH/s on the CPU portion and 11.5MH/s on the GPU side. I didn't run it more than a couple minutes for obvious reasons. At least it can push Fallout 3 on Medium setting on the screen's full resolution using Wine on Ubuntu 12.04
1099  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Can governments spam or ddos the bitcoin network to death? on: December 03, 2012, 07:38:03 PM
This is how an intelligent adversary would destroy Bitcoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128900.msg1374756#msg1374756

The process works like this: First, use a deceptive narrative to create the illusion of a crisis then use the false crisis as an excuse to push a protocol change which reverses Bitcoin's fundamental nature.

In this case the narrative is that blockchain bloat is a problem that can't be solved without a protocol change, and that a reference client implementation detail like anti-spam rules are impossible to change.

The proposed solution is to change the protocol to allow outputs to be spent without a signed transaction. If that ever happens Bitcoin as we know it is dead. Miners would the means and the economic incentive to claim unspent output for their own use without the consent of their owners (otherwise known as stealing).

A smart adversary would combine this tactic with the appropriate carrot and stick incentives applied to key individuals to either neuter or destroy Bitcoin.

At one point I do believe the bitcoin client allowed unsigned transactions aimed at IP addresses and those were removed from this list of things allowed fairly soon due to man-in-the-middle. I'm fairly sure anything that reintroduced unsigned transactions, much less forced them, would no longer be bitcoin.
1100  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Who Thinks BFL Will Release There ASICS Before BTC on: December 03, 2012, 09:40:32 AM
does BFL have the chips yet? seems it'd be easier to complete the production process using 90nm rather than 65, but i'm far from an expert in the field..

I don't know about easier, but the initial outlay seems like it ought to be less expensive to get the first few batches done on a 90nm process at least.

It's important to remember that what made FPGA miners attainable was the dramatic savings the vendors got by ordering bulk chips that were already one or two generations old. I think it was a roughly 10x reduction in the per chip price going with the chips they did versus the newest chips. Once they had them, all it took was programing them to specialize in hashing.

When it comes to ASICs, like most things bitcoin I'll probably get into them a bit late. It will probably be three or four months after the first products have been confirmed to ship. I'm not afraid of them never shipping so much as I'm more comfortable letting people run some into the ground, before I commit to purchasing a single purchase chip. The FPGAs have reputations for lifespan as well as resale value outside of the bitcoin community. Whoever ships an ASIC first is shipping uniquely new hardware, and they are going to make their customers very happy as long as the hardware performs and holds up.
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