Bitcoin Forum
September 26, 2024, 10:38:35 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.1 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 [29] 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 »
561  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Boycott GHASH.IO/CEX.IO permanently on: June 20, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
Blatantly wrong.  If 2 people are mining on a small pool with 600MH/s (say 1 USB miner stick each) and you happen to solve a block each person gets 12.5BTC, an amount you would never see if you were on a big pool.

Only thing big pools aid with is decreased risk of variance.  You don't make any more money mining with in the big pond.

Yes, you're 100% right. 1 miner can solve a block and get the reward no matter what hashing power they have, even a 1gh/s usb miner.  Now, in reality, the more hashes you process per second, the likelihood (not probability) of you solving a block is greater. I used p2pool for a week and earned 45% less BTC than I earned with the same hashing power using ghash.
Bottom line is p2pool is pplns plus a % fee.  Oh wait, I forgot the 0.5% subsidy a node gets for the solved block.  Roll Eyes

p2pool is not popular because it suffers from the fact that miners will always act in a way to directly maximize their profits. We can cry in our cups all day about 51% and how p2pool should be this amazing solution. However at the end of the day, it's just less money in the miners pocket.

I agree with your generalized statement that I bolded, but consider this:
Would you rather have 9.5 BTC (assuming the pool took a 5% fee) worth 650 USD or 10.1 BTC worth $580 USD.  You think BTC price has fluctuated down for no reason?  The scare of 51% is clearly dominating the market.

Now let's play this worse case scenario - Ghash.IO does do some stupid attack and BTC become a has been coin leading to some other coin such as LTC or PPC taking over (LTC still has issues with centralization).  How much are you 10.1BTC x $0 USD worth now - nothing.

If miners are looking strictly at gaining the most BTC then yes they are more likely to get them at Ghash.IO -  but they are showing their stupid side.  Greed makes people stupid and illogical - and that is clearly evidenced here.

For some of us who have 10K+ BTC this is not a casual hobby but our future, and I don't give a rats ass about some 1-2% more mining income when I'm risking the whole boatload.
562  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Boycott GHASH.IO/CEX.IO permanently on: June 18, 2014, 09:54:01 PM
Personally, I don't think ghash going to attempt a 51% attack. I'm more concerned with the large private pools out there, granted they don't have 45Ph/s to do a 51% yet, but in the coming months, who knows what someone with enough private cash might do. Ghash would have to create a large forked block chain with all the petahashes at their disposal and the evidence of that would be pretty clear.

From a mining perspective, since PPS has pretty much gone away, you have to throw your hashes at the pool that solving the most blocks otherwise you won't make as much money. Less blocks solved by the pool = less money. If btcguild started PPS again, I'd go back to them, but they stopped PPS, so you need to go with who's going to pay the most for the hashes. P2Pool was awful, I took a 45% income hit when I gave it a try.  Maybe in the future when (or if) fees kick in, but right now p2pool doesn't pay like the larger pools, so there's little point. In short, if PPS comes back into the play, great, otherwise there's no incentive to move out of a large pool.


Blatantly wrong.  If 2 people are mining on a small pool with 600MH/s (say 1 USB miner stick each) and you happen to solve a block each person gets 12.5BTC, an amount you would never see if you were on a big pool.

Only thing big pools aid with is decreased risk of variance.  You don't make any more money mining with in the big pond.
563  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Boycott GHASH.IO/CEX.IO permanently on: June 18, 2014, 09:50:40 PM

So basically you want somebody else to subsidize your mining overhead?  You are willing to destroy BTC for the extra income gained from having 1% less fee?  how shortsighted are you fools?

So other than having the ability to sell miner's hashes through CEX.IO, how extra is ghash.io benefiting from this?  Care to question that?  You think they're offering the pool from some sort of benevolent or altruistic view towards miners?

You don't have to be a cynic to understand that such behavior is not seen in the business world.  Something doesn't smell right.  The fact you peons are willing to overlook that coincides with the fact you are late bandwagoner  Roll Eyes
No, I am saying the longterm solution is creating awesome pools with nice payout systems.

Eligius works with 0% fees just fine.

At the end of the day the "consumer" decides on which service to use. He votes with his choice for the model he likes most. That vote should be respected.

I am not willing to destroy anything, as I am not the destroyer. Even a 51% pool doesn´t destroy anything without malicious intent.

As explained, the pool would first have to withhold a large number of blocks from the network to then submit them at once, verifying each block on its own and creating a new sidechain,
which would then become the main chain.


The whole concept of decentralization is that you don't have to trust or rely on any 1 agency.  There is no Federal Reserve deciding fiscal policy.  Just miners who decide by majority which protocol to follow.

When somebody acquires 51% you now have to trust that they will have good intentions and not use their power maliciously (as we have seen with the greedy banksters around the world).  Ghash.io has already shown once that they were willing to double spend.  The warnings were made before the first 51% event and still they double spent.

If they control 6 blocks in a row and 51% of the power they essentially can throw away any work submitted by other pools or solo individuals.  Essentially rendering them judge, jury, executioner.

I cannot blame the pool ops for this.  Eleuthria, wizkid, and at one time Slush ran better pools than anything ghash.io could hope to become.  The better pool is not fancy graphics or highest payout.  It's the one where the pool op is responsible to the Bitcoin community.  Ghash.io has shirked that responsibility from day 1, and apparently mindless peons support that in their avarice.
564  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Boycott GHASH.IO/CEX.IO permanently on: June 18, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
The longterm solution can´t be "boycott pool X"

The different pools have to improve to get their service up to the level of GH.io, not the other way around.

That means merged mining atleast NMC, 0% pool cost, TX cost payout etc.


Also, for 51% attacks a pool would need to WITHHOLD a large number of blocks from the network, building a side chain which it can verify with its own hash power.
As long as GH.io pools` blocks show up fairly regularly, there is no reason to worry.

So basically you want somebody else to subsidize your mining overhead?  You are willing to destroy BTC for the extra income gained from having 1% less fee?  how shortsighted are you fools?

So other than having the ability to sell miner's hashes through CEX.IO, how extra is ghash.io benefiting from this?  Care to question that?  You think they're offering the pool from some sort of benevolent or altruistic view towards miners?

You don't have to be a cynic to understand that such behavior is not seen in the business world.  Something doesn't smell right.  The fact you peons are willing to overlook that coincides with the fact you are late bandwagoner  Roll Eyes
565  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: *** GHash.IO mining pool official page *** on: June 17, 2014, 08:34:54 AM
To that effect we are in the process of arranging contact to the leading mining pools and Bitcoin Foundation to propose a ‘round table’ meeting of the key players with the aim of discussing and negotiating collectively ways to address the decentralisation of mining as an industry. Our aim is to do this quickly with a possible date coinciding with the CoinSummit Conference in London.
This has been ongoing since 2012 on mailing lists and IRC.
Please join and participate.
GHash.io is the only major pool that has not been involved in inter-pool relationships.

They obviously feel that they are better than the other pools and want to have a discussion only on their terms.

Seriously.  Who can take their words of not wanting to hurt the community when they can't even be bothered to listen to their peers.
566  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [12000 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers on: June 17, 2014, 08:33:14 AM
11 blocks in ~5 hrs?  Shocked

Clearly a block withholding att--err, wait a minute...block producing attack?

Thank you may I have another.  Guess it was good timing I got my extra 25TH online yesterday!  I haven't seen a run like this for almost a month I think.
567  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: What is a block withholding attack? (and solution) on: June 17, 2014, 08:31:39 AM
Sadly 1/2 of that went over my head to be honest, but I will read up on it.

Would there be a way to have software implement a query to make sure the miner will submit a winning solve (like a test solve) every X number of shares.  I guess that would require a protocol change since the pool would have to issue the challenge work.

ASICs do not always test every nonce from 1 - 2^32.  There's many reasons this may happen such as

1) Many will slice that range into pieces based on the # of chips on the board, giving each one a slice.  If a chip is damaged, that range isn't checked.  Hardware errors.

2) It may be setup to have modules, with each module getting a range, but some units only have 1 or 2 while others have 8.  Instead of splitting the ranges up evenly between available modules, it gives them their static range and ignores the others.

3) It may immediately feed in new work once a solution is found for a nonce range, even though multiple solutions can exist in the full range.



Additionally, modern mining protocols have the miner use a local counter inserted into the coinbase in order to generate work (this is why stratum and GBT are immensely more efficient than getwork, they can make their own work locally).  That counter will be in a different state for every single miner.  If a call were added which forced miners to have that counter in a specific state, you've just clued in a block withholder that the work it received is a test for withholding, so they won't.

So at this point we are left with no workaround or method of detection for withholding attacks short of statistical outlayers?
568  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Free unlimited electricity... where to start? on: June 17, 2014, 08:25:06 AM
Plus also remember that if you're mining you will be generating a lot of heat.  Even with "free" electricity you will need some device t remove that heat.
569  Other / Off-topic / Re: WORLD'S LARGEST GUMMY BEAR!!! MUST SEE!!!!! on: June 11, 2014, 08:44:50 PM
Which ever way you eat it, by the time you finished the last bite, you wish you'll never see a gummy bear ever again (or anything sweet) Cheesy


I can just imagine a kid rolling on his side groaning next to one of these gummies with head chewed off  Cheesy
570  Other / Off-topic / Re: 10-year-old graduates high school. on: June 11, 2014, 08:36:05 PM
That poor boy is not going to be over 1.5 meters tall.  He will be a midget compared to other men.  Good job dad.
571  Other / Off-topic / Re: what's your eating habit? on: June 11, 2014, 08:33:46 PM
I eat everything in view and can't gain weight.  My girlfriends hate me for this so I get stuck with the bill when we go out  Smiley
572  Other / Off-topic / Re: What social network do you use most? on: June 11, 2014, 08:30:52 PM
I only click on twitter and facebook to get discounts on things I buy. Don't have time to care about other people's drama.
573  Other / Off-topic / Re: I'm in love! on: June 11, 2014, 08:28:22 PM
You do realize the 18 has the mental capability of a kitten.  Chalk the 20 euro as a loss and move onto the 24/26.

42/24 = 7/4
574  Other / Off-topic / Re: 10-year-old graduates high school. on: June 11, 2014, 08:19:44 PM
There are people who graduated my highschool who easily knew less than I did when I was 10.  graduating HS is meaningless in the context of accomplishing something.  In the US people finish all time the time without being able to even read.  Many don't even know which countries lie to the north and south.

Now if he became a lawyer or doctor at 10, that would be something.  10 year old going off in a tirade in court  Grin
575  Other / Off-topic / Re: Advice on starting a new life. on: June 11, 2014, 08:15:04 PM
Better now than later if you got married she would suck the life out you.  Us women can be evil muahahaha
576  Other / Off-topic / Re: If you do not have a years supply of water, buy it now on: June 11, 2014, 08:08:00 PM
Dank, when you're hopped up on X or whatever you're on right now you need to drink a LOT of water.  Good advice, good advice
577  Other / Off-topic / Re: Never fix someones computer for free on: June 11, 2014, 08:06:32 PM
Repair some hardware and you'll become their software tech support for 10 years.  Better to have them go to www.dell.com
578  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: 310 Mhash/s is $0.01 per day? on: June 11, 2014, 08:02:05 PM
Mining with this card was never profitable when taking into account the bitcoin price at the time of mining.
In 2010/2011 you could mine lots of bitcoins with this card but the coins were essentially worthless at the time.
The rise of bitcoin price made it (hugely) profitable after the fact, but so would buying 1000USD worth of coins at that time (at 0.05 $/BTC)

Same situation today. The card will cost many times more in electricity than it will get in bitcoins.
If the bitcoin price rises to 1,000,000 USD even this would be profitable.

That being said, using GPU today to mine bitcoins is completely a big no-no. Asic's are the only way now because with todays bitcoin prices you can marginally get your investment back.

For investment purposes this is not the way to go. It is much simpeler just buying the coins and holding them (in well protected wallet, read up on this FIRST).

2010, maybe.  not 2011.  I payed off half a dozen 5830's in about 10 days


What do you suggest for this point in time? 6/9/2014?

I'd suggest buying bitcoins if you think their price is going to go up.  ASICs are all incredibly overpriced, as is the 'rented' ghash at cex.io (they'd use it themselves if they made more money that way).

GPUs are pointless for bitcoins.

If you're a gamer and have a good card and live with your parents, they probably wouldn't notice an extra $10 or something on their electricity bill if you mined some scrypt coin at night or somesuch.  You should be able to make a little bit off of that.

True but if you're living with parents, you're probably in your own room and have your PC close to your head.  Most people don't want 50-100% fans buzzing in their ears at night - at least not for the 10 cents a day it makes  Sad
579  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Never make a ROI on: June 11, 2014, 07:59:38 PM
You can roi. I have and i'm no wizard.
I don't understand the miner price today though as they were cheaper, or the same price 2-3 weeks ago, and it is a later point in time. 
Companies just ripping people off from recent price increase right now.

Now anyone who is trying to mine alts with gpus these days, myself included, needs some wizard assistance cause were all fucked lol. 

You must be talking fiat ROI.  Fiat ROI just depends on timing - you buy the miner when BTC value is low, mine and hope BTC goes up to cover your cost.

BTC ROI is pretty much impossible with any ASIC.  I think the naysayers are talking about BTC ROI.
580  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Why is BITMAIN selling used products ? on: June 11, 2014, 07:53:31 PM
I have purchased many miners from Bitmain, S1 and S2. Never has one appeared to have seen any use. In fact, they were so clean and unscarred I wondered if they had even been functionally tested. But I have yet to have ever had a DOA or failure of any kind.
Indeed, same experience. But perhaps the last miners that they sold for 0,4xx BTC where used in BITMAIN's farm...

Looked exactly like this, maybe a little worse (picture from another user with the same experience as me).

Didnt take my own pictures, i had other things going on and its not like i had recourse.



Looks similar to the seasoning salt that Yifu shipped my Avalon with.  Bastards mined with the hardware for months on end...
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 [29] 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!