Here we go in this endless loop again. Something more complex had to have created your god, to have created the universe, to have created us... you're simply stopping the chain of needing more complexity and saying 'because god'.
Why do you think that "Something more complex had to have created your god," when we don't know enough about God, or anything potentially outside of our universe? Is it simply because you say so? Are you god enough that you just know it?
I never claimed to know if there is a god, I simply counter your arguments that there is proof/evidence for one. I choose not to believe based on a lack of evidence.
This is really great. Not many people can believe in much of anything without some kind of evidence. Why do you ignore the evidence that I have presented, especially since the evidence incorporates the whole scientific realm of man? There are some people that believe there is a higher power since we don't know for certain, and that is a respectable position. What is not, on the other hand, is believing that you know who the one true creator is based on a book thousands of years old and you're going to burn for eternity if you don't believe in him. The people who study the historical and traditional record about the Bible, have come to the conclusion that it cannot exist as it does. You can extrapolate for yourself what this means.
The idea that there is not a god makes no less sense than the idea that there is one.
Yet, since the greatest evidence - that which I have presented in my previous post above - suggests that there is a way high higher intelligence than man, the only two ways to make the idea of there not being a God to have any strength are: 1) prove there is no God; 2) formulate a religion around pure atheism.  You can't make our position have to abide by one standard and then say yours doesn't. There may be some sort of a higher power that doesn't abide by these for all we know, but there is absolutely no proof of that. 'Goddditit!' is not a valid argument no matter how many times you repeat it No scientific evidence so far proves god. The Joint made a good point saying that some things could be considered evidence, but anything can be interpreted anyhow if you take a narrow snippet of it instead of the big picture. There is no way to validate what is written in the bible, which is the only place you could source these 'impossible to exist' claims (although I have a feeling if I researched the specifics it would have already been debunked). Spiderman comics don't prove that Spiderman exists, The Bible doesn't prove that God exists. You cannot disprove god, and I never claimed to be able to. Atheism is not a religion, it is a lack of belief in a diety until we are presented with something that proves otherwise. If you claim to know for certain that there is no god that is just as ignorant as claiming to know for certain that there is one. |
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Isn't the machine quality of the universe and life, especially when the "machinery" is advanced as it appears, and there is the presence of simple, almost non-machinery as well, a consideration? The fact that there are tremendously "advanced" forms of complex machinery (life) in the universe... and the fact that there is absolutely nothing but pure guesswork regarding how these advanced "machines" came about (because they are so advanced that we simply don't have enough of a handle on the idea to do more than guess)... combined with our own active operating machine making activities that show that (usually) the more advanced machine makers among us make more advanced machines - remember, all of our machine-making abilities come from what we observe and use as already found in the universe, and we are really only scratching the surface in the amounts and ways that we use the machines of the universe... at this stage of our development, wouldn't this be evidence for a real God? As you say, it wouldn't be proof. Yet I would consider it to be a gigantically large chunk of evidence, evidence so great as to get me to start examining any records that I could to see if the "probable" God hadn't left us a more direct and clearer record of Himself. Consider how great the nervous system and brain combination of a human being are from the Isaac Asimov sci-fi quote at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=761592.msg9656564#msg9656564 . Nope, we've gone over this a ton already. Complex life is in no way proof for a god. Something more complex would have had to make your god, and on and on and on... You know, you have a way of twisting things. You're statement, above, "Complex life is in no way proof for a god," is a totally acceptable statement. But you haven't ever answered the question. What kind of evidence is it? You keep saying "proof" when we all know there isn't any proof. Does lack of proof mean that there can't be any evidence whatsoever? The idea of something making God is unfounded. Why? Because we don't know enough about God from the evidence to suggest that He has any kind of need for being made. And the evidence is so inconclusive that there is no way to say that He WAS made. It's not evidence for a god either. Same difference, used the wrong word. But it is evidence that there is something that has God-like qualities, even if it is only a living, thinking, virtually breathing universe. ...what? The universe is extremely complex, but that's not a 'god-like' quality Okay, here it is again. Man looks at universe and sees complexity. Man copies universe and makes complexity. Mans' complexity is not as complex as universe' complexity. Man is intelligent, having a great mind. Why is not the universe that developed the complexity that man uses, and greater, not intelligent? with even a greater mind? Is it the universe that is the mind? Is there a universe Creator? We simply don't know scientifically. Yet ALL of our "smarts" come from observing and copying the universe in one way or another. It is the idea that there is NOT a God that is starting to not make sense. Here we go in this endless loop again. Something more complex had to have created your god, to have created the universe, to have created us... you're simply stopping the chain of needing more complexity and saying 'because god'. I never claimed to know if there is a god, I simply counter your arguments that there is proof/evidence for one. I choose not to believe based on a lack of evidence. There are some people that believe there is a higher power since we don't know for certain, and that is a respectable position. What is not, on the other hand, is believing that you know who the one true creator is based on a book thousands of years old and you're going to burn for eternity if you don't believe in him. The idea that there is not a god makes no less sense than the idea that there is one. |
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Isn't the machine quality of the universe and life, especially when the "machinery" is advanced as it appears, and there is the presence of simple, almost non-machinery as well, a consideration? The fact that there are tremendously "advanced" forms of complex machinery (life) in the universe... and the fact that there is absolutely nothing but pure guesswork regarding how these advanced "machines" came about (because they are so advanced that we simply don't have enough of a handle on the idea to do more than guess)... combined with our own active operating machine making activities that show that (usually) the more advanced machine makers among us make more advanced machines - remember, all of our machine-making abilities come from what we observe and use as already found in the universe, and we are really only scratching the surface in the amounts and ways that we use the machines of the universe... at this stage of our development, wouldn't this be evidence for a real God? As you say, it wouldn't be proof. Yet I would consider it to be a gigantically large chunk of evidence, evidence so great as to get me to start examining any records that I could to see if the "probable" God hadn't left us a more direct and clearer record of Himself. Consider how great the nervous system and brain combination of a human being are from the Isaac Asimov sci-fi quote at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=761592.msg9656564#msg9656564 . Nope, we've gone over this a ton already. Complex life is in no way proof for a god. Something more complex would have had to make your god, and on and on and on... You know, you have a way of twisting things. You're statement, above, "Complex life is in no way proof for a god," is a totally acceptable statement. But you haven't ever answered the question. What kind of evidence is it? You keep saying "proof" when we all know there isn't any proof. Does lack of proof mean that there can't be any evidence whatsoever? The idea of something making God is unfounded. Why? Because we don't know enough about God from the evidence to suggest that He has any kind of need for being made. And the evidence is so inconclusive that there is no way to say that He WAS made. It's not evidence for a god either. Same difference, used the wrong word. But it is evidence that there is something that has God-like qualities, even if it is only a living, thinking, virtually breathing universe. ...what? The universe is extremely complex, but that's not a 'god-like' quality |
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Isn't the machine quality of the universe and life, especially when the "machinery" is advanced as it appears, and there is the presence of simple, almost non-machinery as well, a consideration? The fact that there are tremendously "advanced" forms of complex machinery (life) in the universe... and the fact that there is absolutely nothing but pure guesswork regarding how these advanced "machines" came about (because they are so advanced that we simply don't have enough of a handle on the idea to do more than guess)... combined with our own active operating machine making activities that show that (usually) the more advanced machine makers among us make more advanced machines - remember, all of our machine-making abilities come from what we observe and use as already found in the universe, and we are really only scratching the surface in the amounts and ways that we use the machines of the universe... at this stage of our development, wouldn't this be evidence for a real God? As you say, it wouldn't be proof. Yet I would consider it to be a gigantically large chunk of evidence, evidence so great as to get me to start examining any records that I could to see if the "probable" God hadn't left us a more direct and clearer record of Himself. Consider how great the nervous system and brain combination of a human being are from the Isaac Asimov sci-fi quote at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=761592.msg9656564#msg9656564 . Nope, we've gone over this a ton already. Complex life is in no way proof for a god. Something more complex would have had to make your god, and on and on and on... You know, you have a way of twisting things. You're statement, above, "Complex life is in no way proof for a god," is a totally acceptable statement. But you haven't ever answered the question. What kind of evidence is it? You keep saying "proof" when we all know there isn't any proof. Does lack of proof mean that there can't be any evidence whatsoever? The idea of something making God is unfounded. Why? Because we don't know enough about God from the evidence to suggest that He has any kind of need for being made. And the evidence is so inconclusive that there is no way to say that He WAS made. It's not evidence for a god either. Same difference, used the wrong word. |
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Isn't the machine quality of the universe and life, especially when the "machinery" is advanced as it appears, and there is the presence of simple, almost non-machinery as well, a consideration? The fact that there are tremendously "advanced" forms of complex machinery (life) in the universe... and the fact that there is absolutely nothing but pure guesswork regarding how these advanced "machines" came about (because they are so advanced that we simply don't have enough of a handle on the idea to do more than guess)... combined with our own active operating machine making activities that show that (usually) the more advanced machine makers among us make more advanced machines - remember, all of our machine-making abilities come from what we observe and use as already found in the universe, and we are really only scratching the surface in the amounts and ways that we use the machines of the universe... at this stage of our development, wouldn't this be evidence for a real God? As you say, it wouldn't be proof. Yet I would consider it to be a gigantically large chunk of evidence, evidence so great as to get me to start examining any records that I could to see if the "probable" God hadn't left us a more direct and clearer record of Himself. Consider how great the nervous system and brain combination of a human being are from the Isaac Asimov sci-fi quote at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=761592.msg9656564#msg9656564 . Nope, we've gone over this a ton already. Complex life is in no way proof for a god. Something more complex would have had to make your god, and on and on and on... |
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Ok who are you whats you experience and why should anyone trust you? Think long and hard on how you answer this one.
We are a group of hackers, research RFID security and web security, we tested a number of systems and know that the general system of common problem. So we know where is weak and how to strengthen it. Trust is mutual. If you support us, we will reward you. We disclose the details of most of the work in the post, this is our sincerity. We go through a rigorous discussion then made this prototype. If you have questions about the details of its work, please point it out. Thank you for attention to ours posts again. So A hacker wants to make a wallet to store my bitcoins in..... might as well file this one away buddy you will not get anyone to trust you now. Hackers are hated in the area people have lost way to many coins to them. Think you might as well throw this one away.... I am calling SCAM at 10:36:16 forum time. Being a hacker doesn't mean you're a bad guy, it simply means you like making things do stuff they weren't intended to. There are a ton of good hackers employed by large companies to try to break their security and then fix it before a bad guy does. |
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How to Get Away with Murder and Breaking Bad
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Is the shield tablet that good? Are they working on a phone too?
I have a Shield and it's amazing, never lags and blows everything else out of the water on benchmarks. |
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Well I personally am fine with abortion, and there really is no way to judge whose idea is right or wrong unless we're going by the bible. The eternal hell isn't a valid argument, just trying to scare people into believing. I don't need a savior, doing just fine, thanks Have a little mercy. Look at all the fun you have had in your life. And you want to allow others to deny that to still others? Have a little mercy. EDIT: You don't need a savior? Does this mean that you know for a fact that you are going to live forever without one? Until the fetus is able to sense things it's just the same as having never been created IMO. No woman should be forced to give birth to something that she doesn't want. It could have been from rape, a broken condom, or she just thought she was prepared but backed out at the last second. I think we should value the life of a human more than a clump of cells that can't feel anything. Even when it can feel, it does not have a right to life until it is able to live on it's own. It's like a vampire that you're letting consensually suck your blood, if you want it to stop then you have a right to make it stop. I don't support abortion, I support the right of a woman to choose what is right for her body and life. (flaming in 3... 2... 1...) I don't think I'm going to live forever without one, I think I'm going to be dead after that final burst of DMT wears off and my brain is inactive. Same as before I was born. I completely agree with human rights. We should not harm others. But where the choice is between a woman and her fetus, it is two lives, even though they inhabit much of the same space. That lump of cells is not as unfeeling as one might think. While the exact timeline is not completely clear yet, the majority of the research into the subject says that the brain connections needed to feel pain are not made until somewhere around 20 weeks. The very lowest number I was able to find was 8 weeks, so that's a 2 month window minimum to get it done with no chance of harm. |
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Well I personally am fine with abortion, and there really is no way to judge whose idea is right or wrong unless we're going by the bible. The eternal hell isn't a valid argument, just trying to scare people into believing. I don't need a savior, doing just fine, thanks Have a little mercy. Look at all the fun you have had in your life. And you want to allow others to deny that to still others? Have a little mercy. EDIT: You don't need a savior? Does this mean that you know for a fact that you are going to live forever without one? Until the fetus is able to sense things it's just the same as having never been created IMO. No woman should be forced to give birth to something that she doesn't want. It could have been from rape, a broken condom, or she just thought she was prepared but backed out at the last second. I think we should value the life of a human more than a clump of cells that can't feel anything. Even when it can feel, it does not have a right to life until it is able to live on it's own. It's like a vampire that you're letting consensually suck your blood, if you want it to stop then you have a right to make it stop. I don't support abortion, I support the right of a woman to choose what is right for her body and life. That being said, if you're going to abort then it should be done before it can sense, that's just the right thing to do, but shit happens (flaming in 3... 2... 1...) I don't think I'm going to live forever without one, I think I'm going to be dead after that final burst of DMT wears off and my brain is inactive. Same as before I was born. |
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Cooldgamer, I know your comments are directed to BADecker, but if you don't mind I will share a few thoughts. (And if you do mind you can just ingore me.  ) Blind faith? I guess you can can see it that way. What is really strange, and even supernatural if you will, is that the Bible says that God will "Open the eyes of the blind." In a way a person cannot see things spiritually until this happens. Many people have said that the Bible made no sense to them until they accepted Christ and then it was like they could "see" things that they never saw before. There have been times in my life where I have "seen" sins that a person is struggling with with the sole purpose of just praying for that person. I have "seen" visions. I have "seen" several people that I recognized were demon possessed just by feeling their presence in the room and then looked that direction and saw that they "saw" me too! A bit creepy but at the same time it just proved to me that I can "see" things in a spiritual way that many cannot. The Bible is even said to be "foolish" to those that do not have the eyes to see. Instead of judging others for not seeing I should be saying that I would not expect anything less. The placebo effect is a powerful thing. A good analogy is those powerbalance wristbands that say their holograms will make you have better posture, better at sports, etc. They actually are nothing but a piece of foil and some rubber, but the people wearing them believe in it so much that their brains make it true. I'm not sure what you mean by they "saw" you too, but 2 people looking at eachother proves nothing supernatural. There are some things in science that are 100% fact. Evolution has not been proven as 100% fact. It is taught that way now. This is a huge problem with the scientific community today.
It is hard for me to grasp how something as complex as a human cell could be thought to happen by chance and knowing the complexity of even a single celled organisms structure and ability to work could have just happened from nothing. The odds of even a single cell evolving are beyond belief and could even be said to be mathematically impossible. Order does not come from chaos. This is impossible and has not been observed. It seems that the desire to prove evolution no matter what the evidence shows has blinded most from what I can see.
I didn't say evolution is 100% fact (at least as to where we came from), I was refuting the claim that we know nothing 100%. Some piece of evidence could come along that completely disproves us coming from evolution, but until then the mountains of evidence we have for it completely blows away any other ideas. We can never say for 100% certainty because we weren't there to observe it, but we're pretty damn close (and finding more and more things to support it every day). However, we do know for a fact that species do evolve. We have made bacteria in labs evolve right before our eyes to use a new food source that they were never able to before (Source)The odds of us evolving the way we did are pretty irrelevant, as with how large our universe is there are so many places that it could have happened. If you believe in the big bang/big crunch theory then there could have been a bunch of times that no life was formed and the universe was empty, but we weren't there to comment on it those times, only the ones something did happen. As for the no order from chaos, I urge you to watch This video, as it does a much better and more in-depth job of explaining it than I ever could. I don't understand what you mean by 'no matter what the evidence shows', as all the evidence we've found so far supports evolution.
Morality should not be based solely on societal norms. Throughout history there have been things that society says is "OK" that changes based on whatever the culture decides is good or bad (for instance, right now our culture is fine with abortion and under God's law that is murder for example) God has given us His laws and these laws are the standards in which we should judge ourselves by. If we have even broken one of His commandments then we are held guilty under those laws and will need to pay the price for breaking those laws. The penalty is eternal punishment. However, God out of His great love and mercy has given us the option of repenting and He even paid the price for our sins (Jesus' death on a cross then resurrection) if we are willing to accept that free gift. However, many do not even think that they need a savior.
Well I personally am fine with abortion, and there really is no way to judge whose idea is right or wrong unless we're going by the bible. The eternal hell isn't a valid argument, just trying to scare people into believing. I don't need a savior, doing just fine, thanks I guess the thing that I would mention, in regards to your point that the Bible is not true or it is just our "truth" is the question of why are so many people hostile to it? If it wasn't so revolutionary why is it still banned in so many places? Why has the Bible changed people's lives so much? Why have people been willing to give up their lives for the "truth" in it, especially if it was not important? Sure there are other religions that people give their lives for willingly, however, the one thing that separates Christianity from all other religions is that Christianity is the only religion that is not about earning our way to God. In fact, it is all about realizing that there is no possible way to earn salvation at all. It is about realizing that we are in need of help. It takes humility and an open heart that prays and ask God to forgive us and "open our eyes" if you will to see things from God's perspective. Then God, out of His great love, comes in and helps us to see not only ourselves, but others in a different way. He helps us to love ourselves and others. He helps us to forgive, have joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control. He give us the gift of His Spirit in our hearts and then we are able to do good things because of His love, not because we are trying to "earn" our salvation but because we are so thankful for what He has done for us.
People are hostile to any religion other than their's in a lot of cases, or a specific religion because of the one they believe in, culture, etc. In some places any religion except for the one of the state is banned, so does that mean every religion is valid? The bible has changed people because they read it and thought they could be changed, coming back to the placebo effect. |
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So much BS in this I couldn't help but make a giant response
Having 100% faith is different. So is knowing something for a 100% fact. One hundred percent faith is blind faith. One hundred percent fact is no faith at all.
The reason that God gave us the Bible is that most people can't live on 100% faith. Life is based on cause and effect, at least the way we perceive it. Simply living throws us out of faith some, and into looking for facts to back things up. If we were required to have blind faith in God, we would all fail.
You still have blind faith in the bible, there is absolutely no way to know the accuracy of what was written. Every religion has a holy book, what makes yours valid and theirs not?
Nobody knows anything as 100% fact. Sometimes we think we do. But we take even the most factual things in life on faith at least a tiny bit. In many of my previous posts in this thread, I have pointed out why evidence for God is way stronger than evidence for there not being any God. So, what's the big deal about 100% true (fact)? Our knowledge of such doesn't exist.
Actually, there are many things we know as 100% fact. We know we're not going to go floating away because of gravity, we know that cause has effect, we know that mass x velocity = force, etc... If we didn't know anything for sure the computer you're typing on right now wouldn't exist
One of the primary reasons that anyone spreads his truth is as you say. We'd have a lot of lonely evolution scientists out there if they couldn't spread their "truth" to other lonely evolution scientists.
Actually they spread it because we're trying to evolve as a species and understand our universe better, unlike religious people trying to stay in the dark ages. Everything we have found so far points to evolution, and nothing towards the christian idea of intelligent design. While I am interested in reactions, I am also interested in people knowing the truth. Part of the way to get people to know truth is getting them to react and respond on something.
Consider kids in school. School isn't very interesting when all the professor does is profess. There needs to be interaction, often so that the professor can learn exactly which area of his expertise people need to know about more so that they get a better picture of the truth.
That's probably a very big truth. God doesn't want people preaching a bunch of nonsense around the world. That's why I and a few others sit tight and study... just so that there are a few of us that know the bottom-line truth.
No, there's so few of you that are stupid enough to believe in a book of fairy tales that contradicts everything we have observed And you have a really hard time understanding that the real reason people pick on my responses and myself is, that they don't really have any logical responses for my arguments.
It hurts to be wrong, and to know that someone has showed you up. And it hurts even more to know you are wrong, but to NOT know WHY you are wrong... to feel like you have had your very base ripped out from under you. And that's the exact thing I have done to the atheists in this forum who have thoroughly read my comments here.
Oh man, this is rich. You have /no/ logic whatsoever, every post you make is full of fallacies, false information, and straight up ignoring facts. I've read through all of your comments, and they're moronic. There is nothing convincing in them, nothing that hasn't already been debunked, and the majority of it was just preaching about your sky-daddy.
What else can they do than to fight back any way they know how? After all, they don't have any God who teaches them any morals (they think). So they are allowed to make their own morals, or to have none, if they so desire. So, they act like the beasts, and fight back, rather than to simply lick their wounds, and try to remain friendly.
I love how you're pretty much admitting here that without your holy book you would probably act like a beast. We have morals because we're decent human beings, because of societal rules, and because jail sucks. A few of them like S.Boxx remain cordial, maybe even friendly. It's kind of sad to see how many people accept the alternative ideas of things like evolution, big bang, and atheism... ideas which are alternative to the truth. These ideas are not alternative to the truth, yours are. There is no evidence whatsoever for your beliefs and a ton for ours. |
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Can we do in-person pickup? Where in NYC is this stuff (generally)?
Most items can have pickup arranged in the Brooklyn/Queens area, preferably somewhere like Starbucks |
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Yay, shipping to Canada! Are the shipping costs included?  No, it is worked out at-cost to make it easier for combined shipping I'll start with .5@a pair of S3 Cool if we send you UPS labels? We can do prepaid labels as well as grouping them together in larger boxes, but signature confirmation will be required |
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Goat Simulator, strange but way too entertaining
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Yay, shipping to Canada! Are the shipping costs included? No, it is worked out at-cost to make it easier for combined shipping I'll start with .5@a pair of S3 |
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Correction, the warranty on the projector is until May of 2015. Also I'm allowed to bid on this too since it's not mine.
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*Bids in the last 10 minutes extend it
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