Palestine & israel? What do you think about that situation?

[lophie]

(ISSYR) Israel was a country during the period from 720BCE to 605BCE.

The dates are chosen because 720BCE is when a certain Kingdom of Israel in that region was destroyed by the Assyrian empire, which itself fell in 605BCE. I assume your answer is probably no, because goddamn Jews.

(PCSR) Palestine has never been under independent self rule.

Can we at least agree on that?

Oh really? You want to go that far in the past?? So who exactly was living there and what did the jews coming from egypt do to them according to the old testament? Or you want to hash that out?

[1714618537]

1714618537

[J. J. Phillips]

(ISSYR) Israel was a country during the period from 720BCE to 605BCE.

The dates are chosen because 720BCE is when a certain Kingdom of Israel in that region was destroyed by the Assyrian empire, which itself fell in 605BCE. I assume your answer is probably no, because goddamn Jews.

(PCSR) Palestine has never been under independent self rule.

Can we at least agree on that?

Oh really? You want to go that far in the past?? So who exactly was living there and what did the jews coming from egypt do to them according to the old testament? Or you want to hash that out?

I assume you're referring to (ISSYR), though both statements are about the past. The purpose of (ISSYR) is to help determine how different people are using the word "country". By your response, I think you mean you wouldn't use "country" to refer to any "geopolitical entity" that existed before Year Y, where year Y is sometime after 605BCE. Correct?

[J. J. Phillips]

do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.

Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

[redsn0w]

do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.

Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"  it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me .

[bryant.coleman]

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

I am not joking, your family must be really proud of you.

the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.

I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.

[J. J. Phillips]

do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.

Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"  it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me .

Israelis didn't "invade," but keep fucking that corpse. Maybe someday we can have a "pacific" conversation when you're drowning in the Pacific Ocean.

[redsn0w]

do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.

Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"  it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me .

Israelis didn't "invade," but keep fucking that corpse. Maybe someday we can have a "pacific" conversation when you're drowning in the Pacific Ocean.

Are you really serious? Or just kidding?

[J. J. Phillips]

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

I am not joking, your family must be really proud of you.

Hey, don't bring my family into this!

the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.

I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.

The worshippers of hundreds of preIslamic Arabian gods who were forced to convert to Islam when Mecca was invaded. Their idols were ejected from the Kaaba and destroyed in one of those famously peaceful acts of multicultural tolerance Muslims are famous for. The occupation continues to this day.

[J. J. Phillips]

do you know that israel is still invading the Palestine lands or not? I don't like the israeli politic about this fact.

Just because you say something doesn't make it a "fact".

Like, I could say I'm fucking your mother's corpse. It wouldn't make it a fact.

So are you saying that israelis are not (continuing) invading the Palestine lands? Then 'I am out"  it is really impossible to make a pacific conversation with you. Have a nice day and I don't want to put you in my ignore list (I prefer to read all the comment made by you). An ultimate thing: Here I'm not the nazi, maybe someone else... but not me .

Israelis didn't "invade," but keep fucking that corpse. Maybe someday we can have a "pacific" conversation when you're drowning in the Pacific Ocean.

Are you really serious? Or just kidding?

Do those maps show an invading army or does it show the result of immigration? [Hint: It's immigration.] Why do you hate immigrants? Are you one of those people who thinks the Muslims are invading Western countries today just because they want to move there and live a better life? Not very pacific of you.

[J. J. Phillips]

Here's a map with the Muslim population of England in 2011 I found at Wikipedia. I could easily make similar maps for 1947 and 1967. We know what it will look like. Is it an invasion of England? At what pacific point will it qualify as an "invasion"?

Here's some stats on the cities in Europe with large Muslim populations. Are any of them being invaded based on your criteria?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population

Amsterdam     Netherlands    14%,[8] 24%[7]
Antwerp     Belgium    16.9%[9]
Barcelona     Spain    
Berlin     Germany    6%,[10] 9%,[11]
Birmingham     UK    14.3%,[7] 15%,[4][5][12] 26.9%[13]
Blackburn     UK    28.4%[13]
Bradford     UK    15%,[12] 32.4%[13]
Brussels     Belgium    15%,[4][5][12] 17%,[7][14] 25.5%[15]
Cologne     Germany    12%[16][17][18]
Copenhagen     Denmark    7%[4][5][12]
Frankfurt     Germany    11.8%[19]
Haskovo     Bulgaria    20%
Leicester     UK    18.6%[13]
London     UK    8.3%,[20] 8.5%,[7] 10%,[4][5][12] 13.1%[13]
Luton     UK    24.6%[21]
Malmö     Sweden    20%[4][12]
Manchester     UK    15.8%[13]
Marseille     France    20%,[7][12] 25%,[4][5][22] 35%[23]
Milan     Italy    7% - 10%
Paris     France    10%,[4] 15%[5][12] (10-15% in metro area)[7][22]
Rotterdam     Netherlands    13%[7] 25%[4]
Roubaix     France    20%[24]
Slough     UK    23.3%[13]
Stockholm     Sweden    20%
The Hague     Netherlands    14.2%
Utrecht     Netherlands    13.2%
Vienna     Austria    8%[7] 10%[4]

[abyrnes81]

One photo worth more than thousand words :

[J. J. Phillips]

One photo worth more than thousand words :

Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.



Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

[abyrnes81]

One photo worth more than thousand words :

Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.

[img ]http://s22.postimg.org/rig4y5x35/gaza_hamas_children.jpg[/img]

Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

hamas doesn't represent all the palestinien, like jews does not represent all the israelien. "Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”  Can you give me the link when you copied this two lines?

[J. J. Phillips]

One photo worth more than thousand words :

Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.

[img ]http://s22.postimg.org/rig4y5x35/gaza_hamas_children.jpg[/img]

Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

hamas doesn't represent all the palestinien, like jews does not represent all the israelien. "Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”  Can you give me the link when you copied this two lines?

Hamas won an election. (One man! One vote! One time!) They're certainly not a fringe group.

Here's the link to the Hamas Charter:

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html?chocaid=397

It's at the end of the Introduction. Let me know if you dispute that this is or was the Hamas Charter.

Now, see everyone. When someone asks a question or makes a specific point, I tend to respond to that question or point. Strange isn't it? Maybe you should see if you detect a pattern in the nature of my responses. Like, maybe if someone's just trolling by ignoring everything I write and just repeating the same "isreal invadud Palistinan!" bullshit, I think they're not worth responding to respectfully, like they're gelatinous mass incapable of coherent thought.

[Muhammed Zakir]

the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.

I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.

The worshippers of hundreds of preIslamic Arabian gods who were forced to convert to Islam when Mecca was invaded. Their idols were ejected from the Kaaba and destroyed in one of those famously peaceful acts of multicultural tolerance Muslims are famous for. The occupation continues to this day.

I don't want to intrude this topic, however, just clarifying this part. If you want, it can be discussed further in Wilikon's thread about Islam.

Historically when Ibrahim was ordered by Allah to build the Shrine for worship over a small he uncovered the original foundations of the Kaaba built by Adam. Ibrahim with the help of his son Ismael erected the new shrine on the same foundations.

Ever since, Ismael the son of Ibrahim who helped his father to build this place and his descendants remained the custodians of the Holy Shrine. History tells us that centuries passed and the guardianship of the Kaaba remained in the family of Ismael until the name of Abde Manaf came into the limelight. He inherited this service and made it much more prominent.

His son Hashim took this leadership and extended it to many other towns of Hejaz so much so that many pilgrims flocked annually to this place and enjoyed Hashims’s hospitality. A feast was given in honor of the pilgrims, food and water was served to all guests by the family of Hashim. This prominence created jealousy and his brother Abdu sham’s adopted son Ummayya tried to create trouble.

There was a dispute in which Ummayya failed and left Makka to settle down in the Northern provinces of Syria(Sham) currently known as Syria. After Hashim his brother Muttalib and after him Hashim’s son Shyba who became known as Abdul Muttalib assumed the leadership of the family. He organized feasts and supplies of water to the pilgrims during the annual festival of Pilgrimage to the Holy Shrine.

Prophet Ibrahim built this House for devout worship to one God. But within his lifetime people disobeyed his orders and began to put idols inside the Kaaba. Ibrahim had to clean the House of these idols and of Idle worshippers.

He told the people that this was a symbolic house of God. God does not live there for He is everywhere. People did not understand this logic and no sooner had Ibrahim died the people, out of reverence, filled the place with idols again.

They thronged to this place annually and worshipped their personal gods, It was over Four Thousand years later that the last of the line of prophet (S), Muhammad Ibne Abdullah entered Makka triumphantly, went inside the Ka’aba and, with the help of his cousin and son in law ‘Ali Ibne Abi Talib, (as) destroyed all the idols of Ka’aba with their own hands.

This was done in the 8th year of Hijra, (probably on January) 630 AD after the bloodless victory at Makka by the Prophet of Islam.

[J. J. Phillips]

the clear standard is the right to self determination. all saudi citizens have rights in their country. most palestinians living under israeli rule don't.

I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia. But you can't compare Israel with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis never kicked out anyone and invaded their land.

The worshippers of hundreds of preIslamic Arabian gods who were forced to convert to Islam when Mecca was invaded. Their idols were ejected from the Kaaba and destroyed in one of those famously peaceful acts of multicultural tolerance Muslims are famous for. The occupation continues to this day.

I don't want to intrude this topic, however, just clarifying this part. If you want, it can be discussed further in Wilikon's thread about Islam.

...
They thronged to this place annually and worshipped their personal gods, It was over Four Thousand years later that the last of the line of prophet (S), Muhammad Ibne Abdullah entered Makka triumphantly, went inside the Ka’aba and, with the help of his cousin and son in law ‘Ali Ibne Abi Talib, (as) destroyed all the idols of Ka’aba with their own hands.

Thanks for confirming this is what happened.

[thejaytiesto]

They've been going on for what seems forever now. This subject has reached a point that it only leaves me with an headache and wanting go out for a relaxing walk as I soak some sun.

[saddampbuh]

Well, that is a good point. The Palestinians are well known for relying on video cameras instead of violence. The fact that they're teaching their children to resist peacefully provides hope that peace may yet come if only the Israelis will put down their evil Jew guns and welcome their pacific Palestinian brothers.



Hamas Charter: For our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave, so much so that it will need all the loyal efforts we can wield, to be followed by further steps and reinforced by successive battalions from the multifarious Arab and Islamic world, until the enemies are defeated and Allah’s victory prevails. Thus we shall perceive them approaching in the horizon, and this will be known before long: “Allah has decreed: Lo! I very shall conquer, I and my messenger, lo! Allah is strong, almighty.”

in the interests of balance:

[J. J. Phillips]

Yes. Both the Arabs and the Jews have weapons and are willing to use them. This is a balanced view.

I posted the Hamas picture because the previous picture showed an Jew pointing a gun at a defiant Arab with armed only with a camera. That is an unbalanced view. It's a false narrative that much of the world wants to push, for reasons already made clear.

[redsn0w]

Yes. Both the Arabs and the Jews have weapons and are willing to use them. This is a balanced view.

I posted the Hamas picture because the previous picture showed an Jew pointing a gun at a defiant Arab with armed only with a camera. That is an unbalanced view. It's a false narrative that much of the world wants to push, for reasons already made clear.

So... can I ask you only one thing? Who is in the side of the truth (in your point of view)? The actual (oppressed) Palestinian people or israeli ones? I want to say another time that I don't support the israeli government (aka politics). Thanks for your attention.