Palestine & israel? What do you think about that situation?

[SebastianJu]

Hi,

today in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1010473.0) we have raised again the discussion that iran wants to destroy israel and we have started to talk about the israelian & palestinian people.

Now I have opened this thread for ask you :

- what do you think of that situation? If your country would be invaded like Palestinan what would be your thought?

Thanks for the attention, and please don't turn this thread in a blame thread.

Have a great day.

I think the biggest problem is that palestine is not a real state now. Change this and it would not be allowed anymore what israel is doing.

Unfortunately im not sure that it would end well because the hate in palestine is too big. But stopping the ongoing feelings of injustice, coming from such deeds, is crucial to not create more and more fighters.

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[Muhammed Zakir]

I have a hunch US is involved in this especially because of UN's "mum"?

[bryant.coleman]

I think the biggest problem is that palestine is not a real state now. Change this and it would not be allowed anymore what israel is doing.

Unfortunately im not sure that it would end well because the hate in palestine is too big. But stopping the ongoing feelings of injustice, coming from such deeds, is crucial to not create more and more fighters.

Even if Palestine is declared as a separate state, comprising of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the conflict will not end. There are a lot of other issues, such as the return of Arab refugees of 1948, and the status of Jewish settlements inside West Bank.

[RodeoX]

I was in Palestine and Israel a couple of months ago. It did not look so complicated. Two things people don't like:
1. Having their land stolen out from under them.
2. Having rockets fall on their kids.

[redsn0w]

I was in Palestine and Israel a couple of months ago. It did not look so complicated. Two things people don't like:
1. Having their land stolen out from under them.
2. Having rockets fall on their kids.

At the end there are some people that want the "peace" and other that want the "war and the continue of the conflict". I think if they want to resolve all this situation the can do it in less than 1 week. The problem here is that no one has respected this division:

[Snail2]

In the current situation the only chance for palestinians if they can manage to integrate into Israel and give birth to children on a much faster rate than the jewish population. (What is actually happening as far as I know.)

[EvilPanda]

In the current situation the only chance for palestinians if they can manage to integrate into Israel and give birth to children on a much faster rate than the jewish population. (What is actually happening as far as I know.)

They are doing it already.


Muslims are also integrating into other societies.

[bryant.coleman]

^^^^ For the past 10-15 years, the Muslim birth rate has been declining sharply in Israel, and the Jewish birth rate have been surging upward. Right now, the difference between the two is insignificant.

[SebastianJu]

I think the biggest problem is that palestine is not a real state now. Change this and it would not be allowed anymore what israel is doing.

Unfortunately im not sure that it would end well because the hate in palestine is too big. But stopping the ongoing feelings of injustice, coming from such deeds, is crucial to not create more and more fighters.

Even if Palestine is declared as a separate state, comprising of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the conflict will not end. There are a lot of other issues, such as the return of Arab refugees of 1948, and the status of Jewish settlements inside West Bank.

I agree. I only think living on land that is in a rightless status because its not a state and many international rulings dont apply then. I mean if you have a house with a garden, you life there all along and your neighbour takes his fence again and again a bit more in your garden then its a really displeasing feeling. Only because he has a regular status and you dont because you arent accepted by others. Unjustice. I can understand that one stands up against this, even though i have no understanding for violence.

I think Palestinians who go the violence route are really stupid. They will never win that way. Thats a fact. But they will lose. They lose the support of the world with it. But they win support when they show they are the poor victims, if true in that case. Without violence. Because people with empathy can feel unjustice too.

Unfortunately Hamas is more of a organized crime organization. They earn money with what they are doing. Similar to ISIS. There are enough stupid persons who donate to those guys because they think its the right thing to do.

Thinking about that brings no good result. Some problems in the world maybe dont have a solution that can be seen yet.

Regarding dissolve Palestine to make it a whole israel... i wonder if palestines feel like native americans felt when they hear such suggestion.

[bryant.coleman]

Unfortunately Hamas is more of a organized crime organization. They earn money with what they are doing. Similar to ISIS. There are enough stupid persons who donate to those guys because they think its the right thing to do.

Hamas receives funding from rich Arab businessman and sympathizers in the larger Muslim world. But they misuse these funds by firing rockets to Israeli villages, rather than using it to feed the starving Palestinian children.

[J. J. Phillips]

Hi,

today in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1010473.0) we have raised again the discussion that iran wants to destroy israel and we have started to talk about the israelian & palestinian people.

Now I have opened this thread for ask you :

- what do you think of that situation? If your country would be invaded like Palestinan what would be your thought?

Thanks for the attention, and please don't turn this thread in a blame thread.

Have a great day.

I think the biggest problem is that palestine is not a real state now. Change this and it would not be allowed anymore what israel is doing.

Unfortunately im not sure that it would end well because the hate in palestine is too big. But stopping the ongoing feelings of injustice, coming from such deeds, is crucial to not create more and more fighters.

There is no historical evidence that the arabs there respond to concessions with anything but hatred and violence. If palestine becomes a recognized state, they'll do the same thing they're doing now. Fire rockets into Israel and have plays in which preschoolers pretend to behead Jews while chanting Islamic slogans.

[J. J. Phillips]

I was in Palestine and Israel a couple of months ago. It did not look so complicated. Two things people don't like:
1. Having their land stolen out from under them.
2. Having rockets fall on their kids.

Well, reasonable people don't like having rockets fall on their kids. That's why Israel keeps needing to respond to people firing rockets at them.

Palestinians seem to love it when rockets fall on their kids. Maybe that's why they always keep their rockets and their kids in the same places. School and hospitals ftw.

[J. J. Phillips]

I think Palestinians who go the violence route are really stupid. They will never win that way. Thats a fact. But they will lose. They lose the support of the world with it. But they win support when they show they are the poor victims, if true in that case. Without violence. Because people with empathy can feel unjustice too.

Palestinians have been using violence for decades, and support for them has only grown. They've made mistakes at times by killing an occasional non-Jew, but the more Jews the kill, the more the rest of the world loves them and sends them money.

People love dead Jews.

[J. J. Phillips]

When was Palestine a country?

none of the former european colonial possessions could be considered countries in the sense you're thinking of. this usually isn't used to justify denying people self determination in 2015.

Who controlled the terroritory before WWI?

Who controlled the terroritory after WWI? How did this change come about? What agreements were made and between what parties?

we took it from the turks and promised the jews a homeland there on the condition that nothing would be done to violate the rights of palestine's non jewish population. this commitment wasn't held to.

Why did the UN recognize Israel as an independent nation, but not Palestine? [This is a trick question.]

the palestinians rejected partition which they knew would result in the expulsion and/or disenfranchisement of a large part of their population. same reason they rioted a decade earlier when the peel commission decided some 200k of them would need to be deported for a zionist state to work

what zionist apologists never tell us is how a jewish state was supposed to be viable in 1947 with a 40% arab population when such a thing was understood to be impossible in 1937 and also in the present day where the large arab population on the west bank is cited as the reason there can't be a one state solution

Many Palestinians evacuated Israel after Israel declared its nationhood. How many were forced out and how many followed the advice of neighboring Arab countries who clearly said they were going to invade Israel? Did those countries declare war on Israel? How many wars have Israel's neighbors waged on her?

the question of how many refugees were directly driven out by zionist bullets and mortars and how many left to escape fighting after the arab armies invaded has no bearing on their right to return to their homes once the fighting is done.

if israel agrees to live within its proper borders and still gets attacked maybe someone somewhere outside right wing evangelical christian non passport owning america will feel sorry for it

Did Jews have equal rights living in Arab countries at the time? Were Jews pushed out of those countries after the establishment of Israel? If so, do they have a right to return to those countries?

pushed out after a wave of antisemitism swept the middle east which is just what the zionist leadership wanted. antisemitism has always been an essential component of zionism.

a right morally, possibly yes, but not happening just as the palestinian right of return isnt happening.

People refer to the "occupied territories" -- but this presupposes a certain view. Hamas believes all the land is occupied not just the "West Bank" and "Gaza." Regarding settlements being the problem, that argument would hold more weight if we didn't have the clear example of what happens when all the settlements are removed by Israel. This happened in Gaza. The reaction of the Palestinians was to elect Hamas, have an incredibly bloody civil war and then engage in years of rocket attacks into Israel. All while receiving sympathy and aid from around the world.

had barak dismantled the settlements when he was supposed to hamas wouldn't exist. polls consistently show a majority of palestinians would grudgingly live alongside israel within its internationally recognised borders despite the undeniable truth that all of palestine *is* occupied territory

Is Breslau occupied by the Poles?

Is Constantinople occupied by the Turks?

the wrong side won ww2 and i'm half greek so not gonna bother with this one

Why does a map showing a population shifting towards having more Jews indicate something nefarious, but maps showing other population growths do not? Has there been a growth in Muslim population in Europe in the past 40 years? Is there a problem with that?

the ratio of jews to arabs in historic palestine west of the river hasn't shifted which is why there's this weird semi apartheid system where palestinians inside israel itself enjoy some rights but the ones in israeli owned gaza and the west bank don't, and are at the same time denied the right to form their own state because more of their land might be needed for european and north american settlers. israel wants the land but not the people.

the muslim minority population in europe has become a problem now that it threatens to stop being a minority and actually overtake the host countries

There's a reason why there's a standard to which Jews and only Jews are held. It's something deep down. Something that survives centuries as a mental virus.

any normal person after being persecuted and expelled from 50 or whatever countries over centuries would eventually ask himself what he had done to be so disliked. for the jews and their supporters the answer is that the rest of the world must be mentally ill.

you're right about jews being held to a different standard to everyone else. they are allowed to talk openly about the need to preserve a jewish majority in their country, but when europeans talk about keeping britain british or france french we are evil racists who want to holocaust millions of brown people in poison gas showers

saddampbuh is probably the most informed person on this thread, and grudgingly I must say I respect his honesty.

The rest of you who think Israel is the primary cause of the conflict should look into the Golden Dawn Neo-Nazis. You might find out you have more in common with them than you expect!

[J. J. Phillips]

Hey, I just noticed the OP capitalized "Palestine" but not "israel." Bitcoiners are such fucking nazis.

[bryant.coleman]

Hey, I just noticed the OP capitalized "Palestine" but not "israel." Bitcoiners are such fucking nazis.

If you misspell Israel, then you automatically become a Nazi? Are you from the Mossad?

Israel is nothing special. Israel is just a normal country like all others. Don't be too arrogant. Arrogance will ultimately lead to the destruction of Israel and very few people in the world would even mourn them.

[J. J. Phillips]

Hey, I just noticed the OP capitalized "Palestine" but not "israel." Bitcoiners are such fucking nazis.

If you misspell Israel, then you automatically become a Nazi? Are you from the Mossad?

Israel is nothing special. Israel is just a normal country like all others. Don't be too arrogant. Arrogance will ultimately lead to the destruction of Israel and very few people in the world would even mourn them.

Oh, I wasn't being too serious about the "Palestine" vs. "israel" thing. Don't worry. I'm not Mossad. If the OP just randomly capitalized one and not the other, then it's no big deal. If he purposefully did it, then -- yes -- he's a Nazi and should die in a fire.

I say "die in a fire" with a purpose. Near the end of WW2 the Allies fire bombed Dresden. Many modern Neo-Nazis use this as evidence that the Allies were just as bad as the Nazis. My only problem with the fire bombing of Dresden is not enough fucking Nazis died in a fire, but hey, maybe I'm in a minority on that here. I'm sure the Nazis on this thread can give a different perspective.

I'm not sure "arrogance" is what will lead to the destruction of Israel. I think it's more likely to be Jihadis with nuclear weapons funded by Westerners who have a problem with Jews. Maybe it's a language issue and that's how you define "arrogance."

About whether or not the Jews in Israel would be mourned by very few people in the world if that happened, I expect you're right about that. The culture has been priming them to celebrate this possibility for decades. Even that piece of shit Obama said something like that some time ago...like it'll be Israel's own fault if they get nuked because they would just never give those poor Palestinians what they wanted (all the Jews dead) and so everyone turned on them and as a result...all the Jews are dead.

We are living in a time when Jews are being slaughtered in Europe -- on a small scale for now, but the signs are clear. Swastikas are showing up in descrated Jewish graveyards. After the Jews were ("randomly" to quote that goddamn Nazi Obama) in Paris, a Jewish woman living in Paris wrote that her neighbors had asked her to please remove any sign she was Jewish, to avoid trouble in the building.

If .., when all this is going on ... when we are living in a time very similar to the 1930s ... if now you are someone who is spending more time focusing on Israel's actions than the the violence and hatred directed at Jews, if you are one of these people, then yes: you are a Nazi. And I hope you die in a fire. Clutching your children while crying to your g*d for mercy. And none is shown.

[bryant.coleman]

Oh, I wasn't being too serious about the "Palestine" vs. "israel" thing. Don't worry. I'm not Mossad. If the OP just randomly capitalized one and not the other, then it's no big deal. If he purposefully did it, then -- yes -- he's a Nazi and should die in a fire.

Wow!

I say "die in a fire" with a purpose. Near the end of WW2 the Allies fire bombed Dresden. Many modern Neo-Nazis use this as evidence that the Allies were just as bad as the Nazis. My only problem with the fire bombing of Dresden is not enough fucking Nazis died in a fire, but hey, maybe I'm in a minority on that here. I'm sure the Nazis on this thread can give a different perspective.

Justifying one of the most heinous war crimes ever recorded in history. Excellent!

I'm not sure "arrogance" is what will lead to the destruction of Israel. I think it's more likely to be Jihadis with nuclear weapons funded by Westerners who have a problem with Jews. Maybe it's a language issue and that's how you define "arrogance."

Are you referring to ISIS? I don't think they are having nukes. BTW... Israel carried out air strikes in Syria to help ISIS against Assad's forces.

About whether or not the Jews in Israel would be mourned by very few people in the world if that happened, I expect you're right about that. The culture has been priming them to celebrate this possibility for decades. Even that piece of shit Obama said something like that some time ago...like it'll be Israel's own fault if they get nuked because they would just never give those poor Palestinians what they wanted (all the Jews dead) and so everyone turned on them and as a result...all the Jews are dead.

Just accept the fact. Israel is having dozens of nuclear weapons. None of their enemies are having nukes. Even if they had, Israel is much likely to use the nukes first.

We are living in a time when Jews are being slaughtered in Europe -- on a small scale for now, but the signs are clear. Swastikas are showing up in descrated Jewish graveyards. After the Jews were ("randomly" to quote that goddamn Nazi Obama) in Paris, a Jewish woman living in Paris wrote that her neighbors had asked her to please remove any sign she was Jewish, to avoid trouble in the building.

European Jews were one of the strongest supporters of uncontrolled immigration from the third world countries. Now when these same immigrants show their true color, you are crying foul? 

If .., when all this is going on ... when we are living in a time very similar to the 1930s ... if now you are someone who is spending more time focusing on Israel's actions than the the violence and hatred directed at Jews, if you are one of these people, then yes: you are a Nazi. And I hope you die in a fire. Clutching your children while crying to your g*d for mercy. And none is shown.

If opposing the arrogance of Israel makes me a Nazi, then let it be. I'll take that as a compliment.

[RodeoX]

...
Israel is nothing special. Israel is just a normal country like all others. Don't be too arrogant. ...

That is a message I am down with also. The days of thinking of Israel as a victim are over for me. They are stealing land and refuse to recognize that as a blatant criminal act. Not that I'm a Hamas supporter, but Israel has created an apartheid state and can blame itself as much as anyone for it's problems. 

[saddampbuh]

I'm not sure "arrogance" is what will lead to the destruction of Israel. I think it's more likely to be Jihadis with nuclear weapons funded by Westerners who have a problem with Jews. Maybe it's a language issue and that's how you define "arrogance."

the arrogance of ignoring the world's demand that it return to its legitimate borders and of assuming this state of affairs will continue forever. israel can dismantle its settlements and ensure its long term survival as a jewish majority country or hang on for a bit longer until a single state solution is imposed upon it from outside when global public opinion finally turns against it and there's nobody left to buy its goods, no more american weapons, no more reparations from germany. think south africa. tens of thousands of whites murdered and raped by blacks since the end of apartheid and countless more forced to emigrate.