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Author Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx  (Read 315719 times)
evoorhees
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August 21, 2012, 12:34:24 AM
 #141


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.
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August 21, 2012, 12:40:21 AM
 #142

Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

Bitcoin benefits when all of the buyers and sellers can participate in the SAME MARKET. Unfortunately current technology means that we need a centralized place to buy and sell securities.

The real solution to decentralizing the equities market is not to have several isolated and competing exchanges but developing technical solutions to federate equities and create a single market with competing service providers.
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August 21, 2012, 12:41:02 AM
 #143


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.

Why use MPEx, which has the 20btc entry fee?
evoorhees
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August 21, 2012, 12:51:51 AM
 #144

Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

Bitcoin benefits when all of the buyers and sellers can participate in the SAME MARKET. Unfortunately current technology means that we need a centralized place to buy and sell securities.

The real solution to decentralizing the equities market is not to have several isolated and competing exchanges but developing technical solutions to federate equities and create a single market with competing service providers.


Hey, I hear ya and largely agree on these points. Let's hope we can get there and work toward it.
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August 21, 2012, 01:10:37 AM
 #145

Why can't shares simply be sold as GPG signed contracts that allow you to prove you are the owner of a share sold, regardless of whom you bought it from? Kinda like a centralized Bitcoin, with the issuing company controlling the "block chain"? Like we used to have with paper stock certificates? Then if you wish to sell the stock to someone else, you sign the transfer, and the issuing company records the new owner, and... oh... that'll be way too slow in today's day trading world. Guess I just answered my own question.

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August 21, 2012, 01:18:51 AM
 #146


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.

Why use MPEx, which has the 20btc entry fee?
*listens to the crickets*
*smiles*

Ahh, I do love camping. Did you know that you can tell temperature by number of chirps per minute?

In other news, supply and demand is why I use GLBSE instead of MPEX: the cheaper exchange is winning the race. Competition is quite a good thing.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 21, 2012, 01:19:37 AM
 #147

Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

Bitcoin benefits when all of the buyers and sellers can participate in the SAME MARKET. Unfortunately current technology means that we need a centralized place to buy and sell securities.

The real solution to decentralizing the equities market is not to have several isolated and competing exchanges but developing technical solutions to federate equities and create a single market with competing service providers.

I am currently of the opinion that the 20 btc entry fee on mpex actually further's this cause (so long as there are valuable listings on mpex).

The exchange has a high barrier to entry allowing for the proliferation of many brokerages (which themselves should offer services for all the exchanges out there ] I know of mpex, glbse, and icbit at least [)

that way, we have a central market by all exchanges being combined, loose this conflict of the exchange also being the broker, and gain lots more competition (which i think is good for the community).

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August 21, 2012, 01:20:46 AM
 #148

I could not find any brokerage servies.. am I missing something?


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smickles
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August 21, 2012, 01:23:33 AM
 #149

I could not find any brokerage servies.. am I missing something?
did brendio stop offering his? I continue to offer my services, and i am developing a nice web interface so that I can lower fees and raise ease of use.

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August 21, 2012, 01:28:40 AM
 #150

All Casinos purchase specialty Casino Insurance, which is usually underwritten with cooperation from a bank using a letter of credit / credit line for the casino.

Who backstops SatoshiDICE's cash reserve? What happens if a series of lucky (or unlucky if you're a shareholder) rolls wipes out the cash reserve? With no backstop the betting limit would have to be lowered, and SatoshiDICE would enter a period of very slow growth. And it would be quite vulnerable to a well financed competitor with a larger cash reserve. Customers would leave SatoshiDICE if the limits stayed low for too long. Nowhere is this mentioned in the prospectus...


As mentioned, cash reserve can fall to zero, but can't go negative. In the extremely unlikely even that the statistical variance resulted in this (it's something less than 0.01% chance) ...

Your 0.0122% bet address has been won before.

Who's to say it couldn't happen again
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August 21, 2012, 01:29:33 AM
 #151


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.

Why use MPEx, which has the 20btc entry fee?
*listens to the crickets*
*smiles*

Ahh, I do love camping. Did you know that you can tell temperature by number of chirps per minute?

In other news, supply and demand is why I use GLBSE instead of MPEX: the cheaper exchange is winning the race. Competition is quite a good thing.
Cheaper? I suppose that really depends on personal usage. For me, I have been charged a significantly larger amount of fees from GLBSE.

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August 21, 2012, 01:39:30 AM
 #152


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.

My  concern is how the media will view one of bitcoins largest "companies" listing on a website that also runs gore and possibly prostitution as part of its other business activities. If you think the media gives a bad rap to silk road I can only imagine what sort of hit job they can do on this.

How much investigation did you do about MPEX as listing there implies you support the rest of their activities. Even cryptostocks would have been a better choice if you just wanted to support a different exchange. You just gave the media a free kick at bitcoins expense.


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August 21, 2012, 01:42:53 AM
 #153


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.

Why use MPEx, which has the 20btc entry fee?
*listens to the crickets*
*smiles*

Ahh, I do love camping. Did you know that you can tell temperature by number of chirps per minute?

In other news, supply and demand is why I use GLBSE instead of MPEX: the cheaper exchange is winning the race. Competition is quite a good thing.
Cheaper? I suppose that really depends on personal usage. For me, I have been charged a significantly larger amount of fees from GLBSE.

I've paid under 3 BTC in fees on GLBSE.
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August 21, 2012, 01:43:12 AM
 #154

Internal Risks

- Running low on cash reserves
- Taking a long time to rebuild cash reserves (small dividends during this period)
- secret.keys leaked (those are precomputed until 2022.01.14)
- secret.keys non-random (e.g. Debian'08-like flaw)

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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August 21, 2012, 01:48:21 AM
 #155

that way, we have a central market by all exchanges being combined, loose this conflict of the exchange also being the broker, and gain lots more competition (which i think is good for the community).

What do you mean we have a central market by all exchanges being combined? Last I checked, exchanges didn't share order books. There is no protocol for unifying buyers and sellers across different exchanges (i.e. federated brokerage model).

Splitting up equities markets into small isolated pockets of buyers and sellers is definitely not helpful.

- secret.keys leaked (those are precomputed until 2022.01.14)
- secret.keys non-random (e.g. Debian'08-like flaw)

I updated my post. Should I start a new thread with the subject "S.DICE: Risk Analysis" ?
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August 21, 2012, 01:49:07 AM
 #156


What I don't understand is why S.DICE is going to IPO on this penny-ante exchange instead of GLBSE. I think that Mr. E.V.'s ideological fetishes might be putting the business sensibilities in the back seat. Which is dangerous for investors.


I do have many ideological fetishes, that is true Smiley Business is one of them.

I would like to comment on the GLBSE vs. MPEx issue, however. First of all, I love GLBSE, and have good relationships with the people involved there. SD listing on MPEx is in no way a condemnation of the other platform. Second of all, it seems that many Bitcoiners complain when aspects of Bitcoinland become "centralized"... and yet here we have MPEx as a competing platform to GLBSE and people come out and complain that I haven't listed on the "main" platform.

I have many goals in Bitcoinland, and one of them is to enrich and nurture the various services. I do not want GLBSE to be the only equity platform. Launching SD elsewhere furthers this goal, but of course I cannot please all parties. In any case, let it be on the record that I'm a big advocate and supporter of GLBSE, as well. A richer, more diversified equity market is good for all of us, I think.

Why use MPEx, which has the 20btc entry fee?
*listens to the crickets*
*smiles*

Ahh, I do love camping. Did you know that you can tell temperature by number of chirps per minute?

In other news, supply and demand is why I use GLBSE instead of MPEX: the cheaper exchange is winning the race. Competition is quite a good thing.
Cheaper? I suppose that really depends on personal usage. For me, I have been charged a significantly larger amount of fees from GLBSE.
I provide bid and ask depth on GLBSE and don't often pay any fees at all. Hmm... 20 BTC is 0.5% of 4000. So over the course of your GLBSE investments, you've bought into bids or sold into asks for a total volume of over $40,000? I would recommend, good sir, that you place more non-matching limit orders.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 21, 2012, 01:56:37 AM
 #157

All Casinos purchase specialty Casino Insurance, which is usually underwritten with cooperation from a bank using a letter of credit / credit line for the casino.

Who backstops SatoshiDICE's cash reserve? What happens if a series of lucky (or unlucky if you're a shareholder) rolls wipes out the cash reserve? With no backstop the betting limit would have to be lowered, and SatoshiDICE would enter a period of very slow growth. And it would be quite vulnerable to a well financed competitor with a larger cash reserve. Customers would leave SatoshiDICE if the limits stayed low for too long. Nowhere is this mentioned in the prospectus...


As mentioned, cash reserve can fall to zero, but can't go negative. In the extremely unlikely even that the statistical variance resulted in this (it's something less than 0.01% chance) ...

Your 0.0122% bet address has been won before.

Who's to say it couldn't happen again

Again, the max is based on the wallet size, so if players win that bet, the max adjusts, and the site continues. It hurts, of course, but the system is resilient and will recover... a player will not be able to make the same size bet until the wallet fills back with funds.
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August 21, 2012, 01:56:57 AM
 #158


LOL.... well... one of us is using our real world identity to conduct business, at least Wink  Who are you, again?

And LOL is a highly professional term, expressing humor across the web of space that divides us.

Someone that makes many times more than you without having to beg for monies on the forums. Do you really think exposing your real name makes you more respectable? In the real world all that matters is CASH MONEY. Same reason Matthew N. Wright Is a laughing stock with an orange ignore button and Pirate has 50 people defending him. Most profitable bitcoin business is a joke. Have you ever compared your profit to SR, exchanges, or similar? Good luck on your shitty IPO on that shitty exchange, though.
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August 21, 2012, 01:58:48 AM
 #159

Good luck on your shitty IPO on that shitty exchange, though.

You can't call someone else out for being unprofessional then use insulting language yourself, and be taken seriously.
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August 21, 2012, 01:59:17 AM
 #160

I updated my post. Should I start a new thread with the subject "S.DICE: Risk Analysis" ?
But you updated it to imply server hack. I was thinking more along the lines of hacking off fingers of evoorhees or fireduck.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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