MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet

[CryForMeSky]

This is really the worst thing i have ever seen

please explain those numbers

I'm not quite sure I understand your complaint, but investors certainly never taking an unprofitable bet. I tried to clean up the explanation on the FAQ, could you give it a reread and see if it's a bit more clear?

"Now if the gambler wins (20% chance), the investor loses. If the gambler loses (80% chance), the investor wins. But the investor is only going to win 1.23x which is 0.92 BTC profit, not the 1 BTC that the gambler lost. Vault itself takes the spread (1 - 0.92 BTC), to use to fund the service and pay the app for giving us the bet."

In this scenario:

20% of the time the investors lose 4BTC.
80% of the time the investors win .92BTC.

This means that the bet has -.064BTC equity for the investors.  

[1715024824]

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[1715024824]

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[Landplop]

So it is a bitcoin wallet, play money and invest money in one?


That is really nicd man.

[leen93]

This is really the worst thing i have ever seen

please explain those numbers

I'm not quite sure I understand your complaint, but investors certainly never taking an unprofitable bet. I tried to clean up the explanation on the FAQ, could you give it a reread and see if it's a bit more clear?

"Now if the gambler wins (20% chance), the investor loses. If the gambler loses (80% chance), the investor wins. But the investor is only going to win 1.23x which is 0.92 BTC profit, not the 1 BTC that the gambler lost. Vault itself takes the spread (1 - 0.92 BTC), to use to fund the service and pay the app for giving us the bet."

In this scenario:

20% of the time the investors lose 4BTC.
80% of the time the investors win .92BTC.

This means that the bet has -.064BTC equity for the investors.  

still doesnt make sense

[RHavar]

This means that the bet has -.064BTC equity for the investors.  

Opps. Let me redo the worked example. The code itself for this works fine, it's just the example I screwed up. I was just trying to eyeball some round numbers for the example, and never actually realized it was -EV

[CryForMeSky]

still doesnt make sense

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge).  MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it.  In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

[Landplop]

still doesnt make sense

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge).  MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it.  In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

Every script is made to win, because of house edge.

[RHavar]

I believe the idea is that a developer creates a game (that has a house edge).  MP basically licenses that game and uses it's house bankroll to bankroll it.  In exchange, MP, the investors in MP, and the creator of the game all split the profit that is generated from the house edge.

In the example given, RHavar forgot to make the bet have a house edge, so the math works out negative for the investor.

That's right, I reworked the example where the numbers this time should add up. The issue was only affecting the example, not the code (which does these calculations properly). Thanks for pointing out the mistake, btw )

[MadeinCoin]

but you have not opened a deposit with Dogecoin,
whether you intend to open ?

[Superhitech]

I saw this:

"The Vault API lets anyone build an app. However, since we just launched, DustDice is our only app so far. Within the coming weeks, we will be helping developers launch more apps, so stay tuned."

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

[RHavar]

but you have not opened a deposit with Dogecoin,
whether you intend to open ?

It's not something we have much desire to support, however we've found shapeshift makes it pretty effortless to convert back and forth from bitcoin.

[RHavar]

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

Well, you could fork dust dice and rebrand it as your own app. We could make this process much smoother if there was some demand. So far DustDice has made 0.11 BTC in risk-free commissions over the last couple of days, so promoted right there could be a business opportunity. =)

[cruisinthrutime]

I think from understanding Googlus's comment, this is a web wallet that allows you to have a gambling balance to split between a play balance and investment balance. You can invest in the moneypot bankroll for the apps that you choose, and easily put a play balance in a gambling app to play without having to wait. This also protects you from unscrupulous website owners that run with your bankroll because the app owners have no access to your investment or play balance.

This is an enticing idea as it adds more security to investments and play balances from loss. Also the audits that ryan spoke of in the FAQ's would be nice for every app. My only concern is can all apps be verified as fair. Can this website not run away with our investment? I loved moneypot and thought eric, then ryan ran/run it with straightforward candor, I hope that it can build a level of trust that can rival just-dice and primedice.

Also Ryan...you need a referral system. Simple suggestion.

[CryForMeSky]

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

Well, you could fork dust dice and rebrand it as your own app. We could make this process much smoother if there was some demand. So far DustDice has made 0.11 BTC in risk-free commissions over the last couple of days, so promoted right there could be a business opportunity. =)

Vault is an interesting concept, I'm sure people with the tools to make their own game will find it massively useful as it provides the hardest part of the puzzle for someone starting out in e-gaming (the bankroll).  It's interesting to me personally, as I have plenty of profitable ideas and years of experience in e-gaming promo work...but I don't know a lick of code.  So I'd have to find a coder that I trust, have them build it, and then split all profits four ways (me, the person doing the code work, investors, and RH).  Doesn't seem that profitable.  Then of course there are questions like if I run a leaderboard promo, where does that money come out of?  House BR?  My pocket?  Split two ways?  There are a bunch of questions, but I'm sure that people much smarter than I can use this service to jump start their projects.

[Superhitech]

Does this mean that there will be a pre-made script to let anyone run their own gambling site?

Well, you could fork dust dice and rebrand it as your own app. We could make this process much smoother if there was some demand. So far DustDice has made 0.11 BTC in risk-free commissions over the last couple of days, so promoted right there could be a business opportunity. =)

Vault is an interesting concept, I'm sure people with the tools to make their own game will find it massively useful as it provides the hardest part of the puzzle for someone starting out in e-gaming (the bankroll).  It's interesting to me personally, as I have plenty of profitable ideas and years of experience in e-gaming promo work...but I don't know a lick of code.  So I'd have to find a coder that I trust, have them build it, and then split all profits four ways (me, the person doing the code work, investors, and RH).  Doesn't seem that profitable.  Then of course there are questions like if I run a leaderboard promo, where does that money come out of?  House BR?  My pocket?  Split two ways?  There are a bunch of questions, but I'm sure that people much smarter than I can use this service to jump start their projects.

Well I guess that you could use vault as a start-up, when you start, you don't have a bankroll, so you use vault to fund your site's bankroll. Then, if your site manages to make profit, you can migrate your site away from vault and fund it yourself, so you don't have to split the profits. But staying with vault gives your free advertising, in a way.

Approximately when will the API come out?

[RHavar]

Approximately when will the API come out?

The API is already out, we're just in the process of documenting it. If you check out toydice and view source, you'll find a very minimal and simple walkthrough of how to create a casino with just a handful of jquery

[RHavar]

Well I guess that you could use vault as a start-up, when you start, you don't have a bankroll, so you use vault to fund your site's bankroll. Then, if your site manages to make profit, you can migrate your site away from vault and fund it yourself, so you don't have to split the profits. But staying with vault gives your free advertising, in a way.

We hope to provide a lot more utility to a casino than just a bankroll: a unified login system, 0-conf deposits, chat servers, security and what not. If a 50-50 profit share ever seems burdensome, we'd be happy to negotiate that down =)

Vault is an interesting concept, I'm sure people with the tools to make their own game will find it massively useful as it provides the hardest part of the puzzle for someone starting out in e-gaming (the bankroll).

Thanks, I really hope so.

 It's interesting to me personally, as I have plenty of profitable ideas and years of experience in e-gaming promo work...but I don't know a lick of code.  So I'd have to find a coder that I trust, have them build it and then split all profits four ways (me, the person doing the code work, investors, and RH).

It's not as bad as it seems. All coders I've dealt with, want a fixed amount. The investors don't ask for much, and provide you an extremely useful service (they eat the variance in exchange for a fee). So really, it's mainly just a 50-50 profit share between Vault and yourself, which isn't terrible considering just the security stuff, maths and bitcoin stuff easily took us and established team 3 months to properly build.

Then of course there are questions like if I run a leaderboard promo, where does that money come out of?  House BR?  My pocket?  Split two ways?  There are a bunch of questions, but I'm sure that people much smarter than I can use this service to jump start their projects.

It really needs to come out of your pocket, although we're pretty reasonable and depending how attractive it looked would be willing to split the costs of promotion 50-50 with you, or at the very least apply a credit to our commissions so that you get 100% of your earnings until you're at least profitable

[RHavar]

I think from understanding Googlus's comment, this is a web wallet that allows you to have a gambling balance to split between a play balance and investment balance. You can invest in the moneypot bankroll for the apps that you choose, and easily put a play balance in a gambling app to play without having to wait. This also protects you from unscrupulous website owners that run with your bankroll because the app owners have no access to your investment or play balance.

That's right! Even malicious apps have no access to your invested money, or balance. They can only spend what you give them.

This is an enticing idea as it adds more security to investments and play balances from loss. Also the audits that ryan spoke of in the FAQ's would be nice for every app. My only concern is can all apps be verified as fair.

We guarantee every bet is fair (as in, the outcome is not tampered with), but have no way of knowing if it's the bet you wanted to make. You can protect yourself by limiting the amount of money you put in each app, and making sure there's no strange bets

Can this website not run away with our investment? I loved moneypot and thought eric, then ryan ran/run it with straightforward candor, I hope that it can build a level of trust that can rival just-dice and primedice.

There's no technical measures that stop me from running away with your investments/balances, but I can (and do) prove that I'm solvent, and I'm happy escrowing and verifying personal details so that no one thinks it's a simple exit-scam. But if I was trying to scam you, these are the exact things I'd be saying (including this very disclaimer) so I highly recommend you keep the bulk of your money yourself, in something like a hardware wallet. We'll both sleep better that way. =)

[CryForMeSky]

All coders I've dealt with, want a fixed amount. The investors don't ask for much, and provide you an extremely useful service (they eat the variance in exchange for a fee). So really, it's mainly just a 50-50 profit share between Vault and yourself, which isn't terrible considering just the security stuff, maths and bitcoin stuff easily took us and established team 3 months to properly build.

Interesting.  Maybe I'll take some time this week and get my thoughts together and price out some work.  The only place I've ever heard of to hire coders is rentacoder...would you say that would be a good place to look or are there better options that I'm in the dark about?

[dooglus]

As I understand it, one of the selling points of MoneyPot is that the gambling sites you deposit to using it never get access to the coins you deposit unless you lose them, and so players don't need to trust new gambling sites which use MoneyPot, they only need to trust you.

That is one of the design goals of MoneyPot.

An app can only access its app balance (which can instantly be refilled, and maintains a complete audit history), but there are no restrictions of what the app can do with that balance. This is something with time we were thinking about re-adding. Your app balance always lives on MoneyPot.com, so you can at anytime revoke permissions to the app or pull money from the app balance.

As the player loses coins on a MoneyPot-linked gambling site the player's balance (at MoneyPot) is debited and the site's balance (at MoneyPot) is credited. To get their coins the gambling site requests a withdrawal from their MoneyPot account.

Did I get that right?

That is correct

So I'm still a little confused.

Suppose one of your app owners goes rogue. I have authorised them to take 1000 bits of my moneypot balance, but I never place a bet on the rogue site. Can the rogue app just take my 1000 bits? Or would they have to make API calls to the moneypot provably fair betting system until 'I' lost those 1000 bits?

I initially thought you were ensuring fair play by only allowing them to take from my balance when I lost some bets. But now it sounds as if they can take and keep whatever I authorise them access to which kind of removes one of the key advantages of moneypot (protection from rogue new app just stealing player balances).

Your "we were thinking about re-adding" confused me. What did you un-add and why?

[elm]

@RHavar

We guarantee every bet is fair (as in, the outcome is not tampered with), but have no way of knowing if it's the bet you wanted to make. You can protect yourself by limiting the amount of money you put in each app, and making sure there's no strange bets

what are strange bets?  I understood that MP is taking care that the app owner =OP will not cheat the investors