Obama or Romney ?

[Snapman]

Both puppets...

[myrkul]

thats a natural phenomenom in pretty much all forms of government. when people struggle for power those that will do anything for power will eventually prevail over those that only seek power to achieve something different. but anarchy, with or without a touch of capitalism, is not the solution. imho its far better to find a form of government that distributes power more evenly, making both corruption and power for its own sake less attractive.

What form of power distribution is more even than anarchy?

AnCap is not anarchy. Bitcoin is not anarchy. If there is a power distribution, it isn't true anarchy. Only true anarchy avoids the problem with unfairness. Any other system is inherently unfair, but the degree it is such varies.

I think you may need to review your textbook. Anarchy means no rulers. That's all. No kings, no Presidents, no Prime Ministers or Parliament. Just people.

Anarchy has many different meanings. I define it as a society without states, which neither AnCap (voluntary association with a state) nor Bitcoin (miners) meet.

That's an interesting view of AnCap, and it goes to the very definition of the word "State." On Dictionary.com, the pertinent definition is "a politically unified people occupying a definite territory; nation. " Which, of course, AnCap decidedly does not meet. Even if you allow that the customers of each individual defense agency are "politically unified", they don't occupy a definite territory.

[JoelKatz]

Anarchy has many different meanings. I define it as a society without states, which neither AnCap (voluntary association with a state) nor Bitcoin (miners) meet.

AnCap is not "voluntary association with a state" because no single entity or hierarchical chain of entities has a socially-accepted, regional monopoly on drawing and enforcing the rules regulating the acceptable uses of force. If your association with the entity is voluntary, it has no regional monopoly on the acceptable use of force, so it's not a state.

The key difference between AnCap and other systems is that entities don't have socially-accepted regional monopolies on the accepted use of force. One of the ways people commonly try to refute AnCap systems is to show that they would inevitably soon result in such monopolies and thus AnCap is unstable. If such an argument were accepted, that would refute AnCap as a political system.

[fornit]

So... you're comparing governments that almost always have epic fail policies with companies that rarely do?  Great argument.

sorry, but i live in a country with pretty good roads & public transport, rockstable electricity, water quality above that of most bottled water brands, close to 100% dsl avaibility, health insurrance, low crime rate and mostly free education.
there is still lots of problems and fuckups i can blame the government for. but all in all i cant call our government an epic fail and i am sure companies wouldnt have done better. in fact, i can see it in the usa that they dont.

Google's motto was "don't be evil" until they went public.  Then they did just that.

Companies can be good.  It's corporations that tend to be like governments.  Again, you're comparing something with has the possibility, perhaps even a tendency to be good (a company) with something that is almost always bad (a government).

you just claim its like that. i disagree.

Governments that distribute ANYTHING are inherently bad.  The ideal government is one that protects the rights of the people, nothing more.  Anything else leads to self serving career politicians.

i dont think i understand what you talk about. so the country is law, judge, police and thats it? zero infrastructure?
if thats what you mean, id rather pass on it. i dont really want to live in the wilderness.

I was referring to organized religion.  Most as corrupt and inept as most governments and corporations are.

I'm talking about godliness, not religious zeal.  The various wars fought over religion have nothing to do with religion, it's the intolerance of other people's beliefs that causes it.

while i have no problem with people being spiritual, every religion that claims some absolute truths is intolerant by design.

There is no right answer outside of inherently good individuals.  

Corporations aren't inherently evil, it's the people that run them, and the greedy "give me something for nothing" shareholders.  
Governments aren't inherently evil, it's the career politicians that lie through their teeth and sell themselves to the highest bidders.
Unions were created to protect employees from "evil" employers.  Now we have self serving unions that cause more problems than the solution they are supposed to provide.  It's not the union itself, however, it's the greedy self serving individuals in it.
Guns aren't bad, it's the individual that pulls the trigger.
Organized religion isn't inherently bad, it's the individuals who seek to put themselves between people and god.

Only animalistic "carnal" man is evil.  Only once man (generalistic term, not sexist) realizes his true nature will things change.  

i dont do "good" and "evil". everybody acts and judges from his own perspective and thinks he is the good guy. ethics are made by man and contain no inherit truth. which one we choose is not a decision between good and evil but a choice about the society we would like to live in. take abortion for example. most people argue about when life "officially begins" and stuff like that. to me that doesnt matter at all. i prefer pro-choice, because women are living, conscient and acting people and their rights have an immediate effect on the society i live in, while the existence or nonexistence of rights for a fetus has no consequence at all. there is no right and wrong in that decision. just actions and consequences that i deem desirable or undesirable.

and yes i know that a worldview like that is pure evil to any (likely religious) person with eternally codified moral rules.

[RodeoX]

I'm either voting third party (probably green) or for obama again (even though it kills me a little inside).

Romney can eat a Dick.

I'm also looking at the greens. The dems are way to conservative for my likes.

[mdude77]

Governments that distribute ANYTHING are inherently bad.  The ideal government is one that protects the rights of the people, nothing more.  Anything else leads to self serving career politicians.

i dont think i understand what you talk about. so the country is law, judge, police and thats it? zero infrastructure?
if thats what you mean, id rather pass on it. i dont really want to live in the wilderness.

Why did the US government make the highway system?  I'll give you a clue, it wasn't for the citizens.

while i have no problem with people being spiritual, every religion that claims some absolute truths is intolerant by design.

There are absolute truths.

i dont do "good" and "evil". everybody acts and judges from his own perspective and thinks he is the good guy. ethics are made by man and contain no inherit truth. which one we choose is not a decision between good and evil but a choice about the society we would like to live in. take abortion for example. most people argue about when life "officially begins" and stuff like that. to me that doesnt matter at all. i prefer pro-choice, because women are living, conscient and acting people and their rights have an immediate effect on the society i live in, while the existence or nonexistence of rights for a fetus has no consequence at all. there is no right and wrong in that decision. just actions and consequences that i deem desirable or undesirable.

and yes i know that a worldview like that is pure evil to any (likely religious) person with eternally codified moral rules.

There is right, and there is wrong.  In betweens lead to the gray society we are in today.

M

[myrkul]

Perhaps this will help you find Good and Evil without asking God:

http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx#upb

[Bjork]

I don't like either of them but Obama is lightyears better.  That said, Jill Stein or Ron Paul would be much better than either.

[BoardGameCoin]

I looked into Gary Johnson, and a lot of his stances are interesting to me, but being proud of privatizing prisons and the 0% capital gains part of the fair tax policy are a no-go for me. I'm tempted to vote for him in protest, but I'll probably just write in 'unowned candidate'.

[kwoody]

In 2008, Obama ran on a campaign largely centered around the idea of "hope and change" and that these things were possible with current political structuring. Today most of us realize this is an utter and blatant contrived farse; the smile of a politician, wrapped in succulent lie tainted bacon. And I like my bacon, don't go tainting it!
Ahem, I digress. More recently in September 2012 during the Democratic National Convention, Obama states to the public that "The change is you!"... and as mind-blowing as this is, it's only a half truth. For hope to be viable and plausible, you must first believe in it, and fewer people are, as the days of bitter monetary oppression continue to pass. I was taught long ago that change, no matters its form, comes from within. The vast majority of people are not "from within", quite the contrary, for the most part we are unenlightened sheep who remain docile just as our oppressors would wish us to be. We have no ability to change the system from within because there is no political will to do so. People are much happier just living their lives and not rocking the proverbial boat.
If change is to occur, it must happen on the level of social-elitists who think themselves better than their fellow man just because of some relatively worthless fancy green ink printed on equally fancy paper. Problem is, the rich have 1 priority above all else, and that is to remain rich. Not easy to "rock the boat" with that crowd, but if we are to free ourselves from financial tyranny, I feel this is an absolutely necessary step along the way. Convince the rich that they will no longer be rich if they put so much faith in a dying currency. Not all voices are equal in this country, far from it. The more money you have, the more power you have, the more power you have, the more influence you have, etc etc etc... Do not believe a word that any politician would choose to have seeded in your ear, for behind that word is some unknown clandestine agenda which will likely come back and haunt you from your early grave for having listened. Voting one way or the other is another way of saying "I'm okay with being told half-truths and empty promises by corrupt entities over whom I have zero control." Politics are a rigged game, the house wins either way, be they Republicrat or Democans. There is but one way and one way only to beat a rigged game; don't play it. Don't vote. Watch as the powers that be realize how utterly fucked they are when only 1% of the population goes out to vote.

Don't fuck with my bacon.

[girlsgonebitcoin]

Romney is going to win as he should. Obama is a joke and a commie and Grandpa Paul is an idiot.

[mdude77]

Romney is going to win as he should. Obama is a joke and a commie and Ron Paul is an idiot.

lol

Romney is a war monger and another big government guy.  Things won't change much with him.

M

[girlsgonebitcoin]

Romney is going to win as he should. Obama is a joke and a commie and Ron Paul is an idiot.

lol

Romney is a war monger and another big government guy.  Things won't change much with him.

M

War monger? LOL that is cute ....  It can't get any worst then Obama so I suspect Romney just has to show up to do better.

[bitcoinbear]

Romney is going to win as he should. Obama is a joke and a commie and Ron Paul is an idiot.

lol

Romney is a war monger and another big government guy.  Things won't change much with him.

M

War monger LOL that is cute ....  It can't get any worst then Obama so I suspect Romney just has to show up to do better.

Romney has repeatedly stated that the US needs to spend more money on the military, never mind that the US spends more on its military than the next ten countries combined.

Obama is not much better on this topic, but at least he admits that when the country is ending wars the military budget should go down, not up.

Personally, I prefer Johnson on this issue (and on many other issues): Cut military spending by ending foreign entanglements.

[tiberiandusk]

Anyone who votes for the compulsive liar that is Mitt Romney and isn't extremely wealthy is an idiot. Since we are only given two choices with a chance of winning in this great country of ours it would be the obvious decision to vote for Obama because he isn't a crazy person. I don't agree with some things Obama has done or hasn't done but I also agree with some things he has or hasn't done. Mitt Romney is just a dishonest person. Whether this is related to the Mormon teachings of lying to people for the greater good or just his greed and desire for the power? Only Mitt knows that. That's why their budget math DOES NOT WORK and they want to tear down church state separations. They are just telling their base what they want then telling the moderates an entirely different story every day. They stuck Ryan on the ticket to suck in some young voters. Everything they do is a plan to mislead and dazzle enough ignorant people into letting their buddies get back to the Bush days of stuffing their pockets and shitting on the country. Jesus fuck people, it's only been 4 years since Bush and Co. decimated this country and it's constitution. Things are starting to get better in reality and not the GOP bubble. Don't go back to that clusterfuck.

[bitcoinbear]

... this is related to the Mormon teachings of lying to people for the greater good ...

You need to brush up on you Mormon teachings.  From the Mormon "Articles of Faith": "We believe in being honest".

[tiberiandusk]

... this is related to the Mormon teachings of lying to people for the greater good ...

You need to brush up on you Mormon teachings.  From the Mormon "Articles of Faith": "We believe in being honest".

To other Mormons.

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

[yjacket]

Anyone who votes for the compulsive liar that is Mitt Romney and isn't extremely wealthy is an idiot. Since we are only given two choices with a chance of winning in this great country of ours it would be the obvious decision to vote for Obama because he isn't a crazy person. I don't agree with some things Obama has done or hasn't done but I also agree with some things he has or hasn't done. Mitt Romney is just a dishonest person. Whether this is related to the Mormon teachings of lying to people for the greater good or just his greed and desire for the power? Only Mitt knows that. That's why their budget math DOES NOT WORK and they want to tear down church state separations. They are just telling their base what they want then telling the moderates an entirely different story every day. They stuck Ryan on the ticket to suck in some young voters. Everything they do is a plan to mislead and dazzle enough ignorant people into letting their buddies get back to the Bush days of stuffing their pockets and shitting on the country. Jesus fuck people, it's only been 4 years since Bush and Co. decimated this country and it's constitution. Things are starting to get better in reality and not the GOP bubble. Don't go back to that clusterfuck.

Amen brother. I don't see how anyone could vote for someone who is blatantly lying and deceiving for his own personal gain. Both his tax plan and his military spending plan are complete bullshit. I've never seen a politician lie like this man just because he knows low information voters won't sort it out.

Then, look at Ryan in the debate: "our plan doesn't spend more on the military, it just doesn't cut like Obama". That is a bold faced lie! Romney wants military spending at 4% of GDP, which is certainly higher than it is now. These blatant lies piss me off soooooo fucking much.

[dirtycat]

just sent in my early ballot.. Romney all the way!  just wouldn't feel right voting for a commie.

[Jimmy Chang(y)]

just sent in my early ballot.. Romney all the way!  just wouldn't feel right voting for a commie.

Facepalm