Obama or Romney ?

[Littleshop]

The level of Illegals we have are good for the economy (we may not have enough right now) and contrary to media reports commit fewer crimes then average.
 

I live on a border state and yes they do commit the majority of crimes.

There is no state in the US where illegals commit the majority of crimes. 

[jasinlee]

The illegals I have met, usually abide by the law far more than anyone else since they have more to lose, its like having 2 strikes in a 3 strike state, but without having done anything yet. And how do you know that the person committing the crimes where you live are illegal, did you go ask them, hey are you illegal cause I just noticed that you were speeding heyuk. I lived in a border state, what I saw was there were almost no illegals living there, they get out of dodge hella fast since thats like the only area where they have checkpoints.

[dirtycat]

The level of Illegals we have are good for the economy (we may not have enough right now) and contrary to media reports commit fewer crimes then average.
 

I live on a border state and yes they do commit the majority of crimes.

There is no state in the US where illegals commit the majority of crimes. 

If you live nowhere near a border town you get that type of misinformation.  If you live here you know and thats why its a big deal with people on/near the border.

[dirtycat]

The illegals I have met, usually abide by the law far more than anyone else since they have more to lose, its like having 2 strikes in a 3 strike state, but without having done anything yet. And how do you know that the person committing the crimes where you live are illegal, did you go ask them, hey are you illegal cause I just noticed that you were speeding heyuk. I lived in a border state, what I saw was there were almost no illegals living there, they get out of dodge hella fast since thats like the only area where they have checkpoints.

The majority of the friends I have who are illegal are great people and abide by the laws (other than being here illegally and identity theft) and are just too lazy to apply for citizenship cause of how long it takes.  They are not scared of check points or background checks or all the immigration yadda yadda cause they have a nice care package that was bought when they came over.

[jasinlee]

The illegals I have met, usually abide by the law far more than anyone else since they have more to lose, its like having 2 strikes in a 3 strike state, but without having done anything yet. And how do you know that the person committing the crimes where you live are illegal, did you go ask them, hey are you illegal cause I just noticed that you were speeding heyuk. I lived in a border state, what I saw was there were almost no illegals living there, they get out of dodge hella fast since thats like the only area where they have checkpoints.

The majority of the friends I have who are illegal are great people and abide by the laws (other than being here illegally and identity theft) and are just too lazy to apply for citizenship cause of how long it takes.  They are not scared of check points or background checks or all the immigration yadda yadda cause they have a nice care package that was bought when they came over.

I lived in the "Valley" Mission Tx for a long time. I have never witnessed anything to make me think illegals do anymore of any type of crime than anyone else. Actually, the majority of the entitled people who think they will not be caught are generally white people that I would meet (though there were not many) and I don't think I saw a single black or asian person in the town. My wife is mexican, none of her family is illegal, but the amount of ignorance I see from people in relation to illegals is staggering. The people who believe and repeat the stereotypes of illegals being lazy, lawbreakers are usually like my backasswards family in Georgia. And the type of idiotic things I hear them say are "Hey those mexicans (they were not mexican, probably puerto ricans taller darker) are stealing all our watermelons ( they had just harvested their leased field in GA)."

Ideas like this make me want to punch a baby since the word illegals is a replacement word for mexican usually. And most of these ignorant backwoods people forget that there is no such thing as white. Where does your family come from? Oh they were immigrants? Did they get here legally? What country? Oh your german so you must be "pure blood nazi" right? My wife is Mexican, but is not really, shes whiter than me and has more spaniard blood than anything, shoot her grandmother was white as a ghost with red hair. I am cherokee indian, german, scottish, welsh, which means I am closer to mexican than she is since I have cherokee which were at least on the same continent as mexico before her family moved there.

Generalizations do not reinforce a point, you should say according to this source: http://wikipedia.org illegal aliens from xxxx country tend to perpatrate crime in border cities at an alarmingly higher rate. I disagree with the whole concept. Lazy has nothing to do with it, go look up the laws to apply for citizenship, they are nuts and they require the immigrant to learn things people born here with college degrees never learned in school.

[jasinlee]

BTW, I would not vote for any of them, I think they are all corrupt and should be replaced with idealists, which will never happen so I will never vote.

[dirtycat]

The illegals I have met, usually abide by the law far more than anyone else since they have more to lose, its like having 2 strikes in a 3 strike state, but without having done anything yet. And how do you know that the person committing the crimes where you live are illegal, did you go ask them, hey are you illegal cause I just noticed that you were speeding heyuk. I lived in a border state, what I saw was there were almost no illegals living there, they get out of dodge hella fast since thats like the only area where they have checkpoints.

The majority of the friends I have who are illegal are great people and abide by the laws (other than being here illegally and identity theft) and are just too lazy to apply for citizenship cause of how long it takes.  They are not scared of check points or background checks or all the immigration yadda yadda cause they have a nice care package that was bought when they came over.

I lived in the "Valley" Mission Tx for a long time. I have never witnessed anything to make me think illegals do anymore of any type of crime than anyone else. Actually, the majority of the entitled people who think they will not be caught are generally white people that I would meet (though there were not many) and I don't think I saw a single black or asian person in the town. My wife is mexican, none of her family is illegal, but the amount of ignorance I see from people in relation to illegals is staggering. The people who believe and repeat the stereotypes of illegals being lazy, lawbreakers are usually like my backasswards family in Georgia. And the type of idiotic things I hear them say are "Hey those mexicans (they were not mexican, probably puerto ricans taller darker) are stealing all our watermelons ( they had just harvested their leased field in GA)."

Ideas like this make me want to punch a baby since the word illegals is a replacement word for mexican usually. And most of these ignorant backwoods people forget that there is no such thing as white. Where does your family come from? Oh they were immigrants? Did they get here legally? What country? Oh your german so you must be "pure blood nazi" right? My wife is Mexican, but is not really, shes whiter than me and has more spaniard blood than anything, shoot her grandmother was white as a ghost with red hair. I am cherokee indian, german, scottish, welsh, which means I am closer to mexican than she is since I have cherokee which were at least on the same continent as mexico before her family moved there.

Generalizations do not reinforce a point, you should say according to this source: http://wikipedia.org illegal aliens from xxxx country tend to perpatrate crime in border cities at an alarmingly higher rate. I disagree with the whole concept. Lazy has nothing to do with it, go look up the laws to apply for citizenship, they are nuts and they require the immigrant to learn things people born here with college degrees never learned in school.

Just because you don't go out much to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I don't need any biased news article to tell me what I see everyday.  My wife is Asian it disgusts her just as much as me to see these people leeching off the system and not doing what they can to become citizens because she did the work and learned everything to become a citizen. Yes they are lazy when they aren't willing to learn those "things" and become a legal citizen of this great country.

[dirtycat]

I love this part of the forum you guys have great opinions I love reading them even if they differ from my own.

[jasinlee]

The illegals I have met, usually abide by the law far more than anyone else since they have more to lose, its like having 2 strikes in a 3 strike state, but without having done anything yet. And how do you know that the person committing the crimes where you live are illegal, did you go ask them, hey are you illegal cause I just noticed that you were speeding heyuk. I lived in a border state, what I saw was there were almost no illegals living there, they get out of dodge hella fast since thats like the only area where they have checkpoints.

The majority of the friends I have who are illegal are great people and abide by the laws (other than being here illegally and identity theft) and are just too lazy to apply for citizenship cause of how long it takes.  They are not scared of check points or background checks or all the immigration yadda yadda cause they have a nice care package that was bought when they came over.

I lived in the "Valley" Mission Tx for a long time. I have never witnessed anything to make me think illegals do anymore of any type of crime than anyone else. Actually, the majority of the entitled people who think they will not be caught are generally white people that I would meet (though there were not many) and I don't think I saw a single black or asian person in the town. My wife is mexican, none of her family is illegal, but the amount of ignorance I see from people in relation to illegals is staggering. The people who believe and repeat the stereotypes of illegals being lazy, lawbreakers are usually like my backasswards family in Georgia. And the type of idiotic things I hear them say are "Hey those mexicans (they were not mexican, probably puerto ricans taller darker) are stealing all our watermelons ( they had just harvested their leased field in GA)."

Ideas like this make me want to punch a baby since the word illegals is a replacement word for mexican usually. And most of these ignorant backwoods people forget that there is no such thing as white. Where does your family come from? Oh they were immigrants? Did they get here legally? What country? Oh your german so you must be "pure blood nazi" right? My wife is Mexican, but is not really, shes whiter than me and has more spaniard blood than anything, shoot her grandmother was white as a ghost with red hair. I am cherokee indian, german, scottish, welsh, which means I am closer to mexican than she is since I have cherokee which were at least on the same continent as mexico before her family moved there.

Generalizations do not reinforce a point, you should say according to this source: http://wikipedia.org illegal aliens from xxxx country tend to perpatrate crime in border cities at an alarmingly higher rate. I disagree with the whole concept. Lazy has nothing to do with it, go look up the laws to apply for citizenship, they are nuts and they require the immigrant to learn things people born here with college degrees never learned in school.

Just because you don't go out much to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I don't need any biased news article to tell me what I see everyday.  My wife is Asian it disgusts her just as much as me to see these people leeching off the system and not doing what they can to become citizens because she did the work and learned everything to become a citizen. Yes they are lazy when they aren't willing to learn those "things" and become a legal citizen of this great country.

Well, so is every single mom, dad and person who had to work instead of going to school to get more education to get a better paying job. Which would keep them off food stamps, medicaid, lifeline, and a bunch of other assistance programs. So I guess they are all earning your disgust too since they are not bettering themselves? Like I said generalizations wont prove your point. Give sources. The US Citizenship tests may as well require you to sit down and do 2 semesters of college courses (or equivalent since many illegals never had an opportunity to go to school) and if they dont use that time to get citizenship and instead provided food for their kids, shelter, clothing all of which I think take precedent. Try looking at things from some other point of view than rose colored glasses, there are other shades to each argument and it disgusts me just as much as your wife to see a person leeching off everyone else. You know, like banks, hedge fund managers, people who pay less in taxes per year on millions of dollars than someone who makes under 100,000 a year. Or corporations like GE who usually pays no taxes in the USA. There are lots of leaches out there. Take your pick, but focusing on the guy working 60 hours a week at 5-6 dollars an hour to support his family in a (basically) 3rd world country I think is commendable that they would put out so much effort to support their families and themselves. But hey they are just lazy illegals who are too lazy to do anything.

[VeeMiner]

neither

[dirtycat]

The illegals I have met, usually abide by the law far more than anyone else since they have more to lose, its like having 2 strikes in a 3 strike state, but without having done anything yet. And how do you know that the person committing the crimes where you live are illegal, did you go ask them, hey are you illegal cause I just noticed that you were speeding heyuk. I lived in a border state, what I saw was there were almost no illegals living there, they get out of dodge hella fast since thats like the only area where they have checkpoints.

The majority of the friends I have who are illegal are great people and abide by the laws (other than being here illegally and identity theft) and are just too lazy to apply for citizenship cause of how long it takes.  They are not scared of check points or background checks or all the immigration yadda yadda cause they have a nice care package that was bought when they came over.

I lived in the "Valley" Mission Tx for a long time. I have never witnessed anything to make me think illegals do anymore of any type of crime than anyone else. Actually, the majority of the entitled people who think they will not be caught are generally white people that I would meet (though there were not many) and I don't think I saw a single black or asian person in the town. My wife is mexican, none of her family is illegal, but the amount of ignorance I see from people in relation to illegals is staggering. The people who believe and repeat the stereotypes of illegals being lazy, lawbreakers are usually like my backasswards family in Georgia. And the type of idiotic things I hear them say are "Hey those mexicans (they were not mexican, probably puerto ricans taller darker) are stealing all our watermelons ( they had just harvested their leased field in GA)."

Ideas like this make me want to punch a baby since the word illegals is a replacement word for mexican usually. And most of these ignorant backwoods people forget that there is no such thing as white. Where does your family come from? Oh they were immigrants? Did they get here legally? What country? Oh your german so you must be "pure blood nazi" right? My wife is Mexican, but is not really, shes whiter than me and has more spaniard blood than anything, shoot her grandmother was white as a ghost with red hair. I am cherokee indian, german, scottish, welsh, which means I am closer to mexican than she is since I have cherokee which were at least on the same continent as mexico before her family moved there.

Generalizations do not reinforce a point, you should say according to this source: http://wikipedia.org illegal aliens from xxxx country tend to perpatrate crime in border cities at an alarmingly higher rate. I disagree with the whole concept. Lazy has nothing to do with it, go look up the laws to apply for citizenship, they are nuts and they require the immigrant to learn things people born here with college degrees never learned in school.

Just because you don't go out much to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I don't need any biased news article to tell me what I see everyday.  My wife is Asian it disgusts her just as much as me to see these people leeching off the system and not doing what they can to become citizens because she did the work and learned everything to become a citizen. Yes they are lazy when they aren't willing to learn those "things" and become a legal citizen of this great country.

Well, so is every single mom, dad and person who had to work instead of going to school to get more education to get a better paying job. Which would keep them off food stamps, medicaid, lifeline, and a bunch of other assistance programs. So I guess they are all earning your disgust too since they are not bettering themselves? Like I said generalizations wont prove your point. Give sources. The US Citizenship tests may as well require you to sit down and do 2 semesters of college courses (or equivalent since many illegals never had an opportunity to go to school) and if they dont use that time to get citizenship and instead provided food for their kids, shelter, clothing all of which I think take precedent. Try looking at things from some other point of view than rose colored glasses, there are other shades to each argument and it disgusts me just as much as your wife to see a person leeching off everyone else. You know, like banks, hedge fund managers, people who pay less in taxes per year on millions of dollars than someone who makes under 100,000 a year. Or corporations like GE who usually pays no taxes in the USA. There are lots of leaches out there. Take your pick, but focusing on the guy working 60 hours a week at 5-6 dollars an hour to support his family in a (basically) 3rd world country I think is commendable that they would put out so much effort to support their families and themselves. But hey they are just lazy illegals who are too lazy to do anything.

ya but you are forgetting they are legal citizens.. they have the right to leech

[jasinlee]

So being capable of leeching legally is ok with you, but if you were someone who was born here and does not report income and files for all the state programs would be approved and get them is ok because they are a citizen? Which is far more common than anyone illegal being a drag on the economy.

Give me an example of how an illegal is a leech on society more so than our overly entitled citizens. Something verifiable. (True.)

[dirtycat]

So being capable of leeching legally is ok with you, but if you were someone who was born here and does not report income and files for all the state programs would be approved and get them is ok because they are a citizen? Which is far more common than anyone illegal being a drag on the economy.

Sure why not its their legal right to use government programs to help themselves in hard times.. whether or not they decide to take advantage of it is something they need to live with when the repercussions of doing so eventually catch up to them.

Give me an example of how an illegal is a leech on society more so than our overly entitled citizens. Something verifiable. (True.)

that is not what is being discussed I never stated illegals overly leech.. its the fact that they are leeching and they are not citizens.  Your asking for information that could not exist unless the illegal immigrant population was larger than or as large as the legal population.

take a look here it gives a good insight as to how much illegals leech off our system.

http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
http://cis.org/node/3877

Both reports show illegal immigrants using welfare programs which should only be available to US citizens. (leeching)

Perhaps a little outdated by a year or more but I am sure you can find up to date information by contacting your local DES office

[kokojie]

There are several issues that makes Obama a deal breaker for me, not that I really like Romney, but right now, Romney looks a million times better than Obama:

* Obama supports AA, Romney is against
* Obama supports legalizing tens of millions of illegals, Romney is against
* Obama increased the national debt by 6T in 4 years, I don't think anyone else in the Republican party can top that. I mean even the supposedly bad president GWB only increased the debt by 4.4T in 8 years, and he fought 2 wars.

What the heck is AA?  Alcoholics  Anonymous?  

The level of Illegals we have are good for the economy (we may not have enough right now) and contrary to media reports commit fewer crimes then average.

The debt should be cut.  Neither has a realistic plan for dealing with it.  

AA is Affirmative Action, this issue has a pretty big supreme court case going on right now, I thought everyone would know it. Google "affirmative action supreme court case"

The vast majority of the illegals are low skill/manual labor population, they can only do manual labor. It's unfair that a Ph.D/Master student can not easily obtain green card (which Romney has proposed to allow these people obtain Green card, google 'advanced degree green card romney'), while Obama propose to legalize these manual laborers. The United States did not become great due to manual labor, it became great due to all the advanced science/technology it has. Why are barbers in China paid $1 for haircut, while barbers in the US are paid $10? because the barber in the US serve a population that has created science/technology that China can not match, NOT because some illegal Mexican can mow lawns for cheap (which is still expensive compared to Chinese labor).

As for the debt, Obama squanders money because he has zero business experience nor management experience (all he has ever been was lawyer or senator). Romney on the other hand has almost 30 years of business experience, several successful turnarounds (bain capital, winter olympics) and is known to be good with money. What's important is not what the "plan" is, but experience. When you go to job interviews, does the company care more about your "plan" or do they care more about your experience? As long as you have the necessary experience, you will have the plan and you will make it work. Without the necessary experience, any "plan" you speak of, I would be highly skeptical of it.

[vampire]

As for the debt, Obama squanders money because he has zero business experience nor management experience (all he has ever been was lawyer or senator). Romney on the other hand has almost 30 years of business experience, several successful turnarounds (bain capital, winter olympics) and is known to be good with money. What's important is not what the "plan" is, but experience. When you go to job interviews, does the company care more about your "plan" or do they care more about your experience? As long as you have the necessary experience, you will have the plan and you will make it work. Without the necessary experience, any "plan" you speak of, I would be highly skeptical of it.

Bush increased the national debt by 85%, from 5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion.
Obama increased from 10.63T to 16.1T or 51%..

Also if you adjust for USD inflation, Bush increased the national debt by A LOT more.


But I don't expect a republican to be well versed in economics or mathematics. You just lie.

[CoinDiver]

Bush increased the national debt by 85%, from 5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion.
Obama increased from 10.63T to 16.1T or 51%..

Also if you adjust for USD inflation, Bush increased the national debt by ALOT more.


But I don't expect a republican to be well versed in economics or mathematics. You just lie.

Seriously? You post that shit then call someone else out on lying? Let me know when they start letting us pay off the national debt in bills denominated in percentages...

But I don't expect a liberal to be well versed in logic. You just feel.

BTW, I'm not a republican, but you're an idiot.

[kokojie]

As for the debt, Obama squanders money because he has zero business experience nor management experience (all he has ever been was lawyer or senator). Romney on the other hand has almost 30 years of business experience, several successful turnarounds (bain capital, winter olympics) and is known to be good with money. What's important is not what the "plan" is, but experience. When you go to job interviews, does the company care more about your "plan" or do they care more about your experience? As long as you have the necessary experience, you will have the plan and you will make it work. Without the necessary experience, any "plan" you speak of, I would be highly skeptical of it.

Bush increased the national debt by 85%, from 5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion.
Obama increased from 10.63T to 16.1T or 51%..

Also if you adjust for USD inflation, Bush increased the national debt by A LOT more.


But I don't expect a republican to be well versed in economics or mathematics. You just lie.

I see you share the same business logic with Obama. Hey if Obama gets another 4 years and increase the debt by another 6T, it'll still be "better", since percentage wise, it's just a 37% increase on 16T, wonderful!!!!

[myrkul]

As for the debt, Obama squanders money because he has zero business experience nor management experience (all he has ever been was lawyer or senator). Romney on the other hand has almost 30 years of business experience, several successful turnarounds (bain capital, winter olympics) and is known to be good with money. What's important is not what the "plan" is, but experience. When you go to job interviews, does the company care more about your "plan" or do they care more about your experience? As long as you have the necessary experience, you will have the plan and you will make it work. Without the necessary experience, any "plan" you speak of, I would be highly skeptical of it.

Bush increased the national debt by 85%, from 5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion.
Obama increased from 10.63T to 16.1T or 51%..

Also if you adjust for USD inflation, Bush increased the national debt by A LOT more.


But I don't expect a republican to be well versed in economics or mathematics. You just lie.

I see you share the same business logic with Obama. Hey if Obama gets another 4 years and increase the debt by another 6T, it'll still be "better", since percentage wise, it's just a 37% increase on 16T, wonderful!!!!

Just crazy libertarian talk, here, but maybe the fact that both parties have continually increased the debt is an indicator that neither one has a fucking clue about what to do with the economy?

[vampire]

I see you share the same business logic with Obama. Hey if Obama gets another 4 years and increase the debt by another 6T, it'll still be "better", since percentage wise, it's just a 37% increase on 16T, wonderful!!!!

And you have nothing to contribute except lies. Romney lies, you lie - what a wonderful company. I don't vote at all, because I can't stand liars and retards. 99% of the elected officials belong in that category.

There are several issues that makes Obama a deal breaker for me, not that I really like Romney, but right now, Romney looks a million times better than Obama:

* Obama supports AA, Romney is against
* Obama supports legalizing tens of millions of illegals, Romney is against
* Obama increased the national debt by 6T in 4 years, I don't think anyone else in the Republican party can top that. I mean even the supposedly bad president GWB only increased the debt by 4.4T in 8 years, and he fought 2 wars.

AA: Romney didn't pick the side yet about AA: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/10/09/romney-stays-away-from-affirmative-action-case/
Immigration: He believes that unauthorized immigrants who were brought to the country as minors and have served in the military should be given permanent residency status.
Debt: I proved already that you lied.

So we got 2 lies out of 3 statements.

[kokojie]

As for the debt, Obama squanders money because he has zero business experience nor management experience (all he has ever been was lawyer or senator). Romney on the other hand has almost 30 years of business experience, several successful turnarounds (bain capital, winter olympics) and is known to be good with money. What's important is not what the "plan" is, but experience. When you go to job interviews, does the company care more about your "plan" or do they care more about your experience? As long as you have the necessary experience, you will have the plan and you will make it work. Without the necessary experience, any "plan" you speak of, I would be highly skeptical of it.

Bush increased the national debt by 85%, from 5.73 trillion to $10.63 trillion.
Obama increased from 10.63T to 16.1T or 51%..

Also if you adjust for USD inflation, Bush increased the national debt by A LOT more.


But I don't expect a republican to be well versed in economics or mathematics. You just lie.

I see you share the same business logic with Obama. Hey if Obama gets another 4 years and increase the debt by another 6T, it'll still be "better", since percentage wise, it's just a 37% increase on 16T, wonderful!!!!

Just crazy libertarian talk, here, but maybe the fact that both parties have continually increased the debt is an indicator that neither one has a fucking clue about what to do with the economy?

Well, GWB wasn't exactly the perfect Republican President, but still he spent far less than Obama. Obama is increasing the debt at a rate that is more than double of GWB. I think Romney represents a real chance to get the debt under control, he has shown that he is the turnaround expert, this is exactly what the country needs, someone that has business sense, good with money and demonstrated turnaround success. The fact that he agrees with me on several important issues (AA, green card for advanced degree etc...) are just icing on the cake.