[ANN][ENRG]Energycoin will be connected with StakeCoin for value creation!

[EnergyCoinDev]

a finding and feedback for DEV

coincontrol have some issues
custom change address is not used
and selftransactions where u select what coin pile he should use
are not executed with the coin piles u selected
instead he seems to automatioc select them like no coincontroll used

(windows wallet)

Hello cryptonit,

Thanks for your feedback.

This should be an old issue existing since day one. We haven't changed any coinconrol related codes in recent releases.

FYI, we are now working on a new v1.5.1 client, which will be mostly for updating checkpoints after 2.1m block height.

We will see if we should put a priority on that coinconrol fix, although this issue doesn't impair security and most users don't even need to use coinconrol.

Before that happens, at least you could still use "Add Recipient", then enter your custom change address there and "copy change" amount. However, you may still need to do a few more manual transactions if you want to eliminate all unspent inputs from those change addresses automatically created by the qt client.

Peter

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[EnergyCoinDev]

additional the unlock "for minting only" option is missing at unlock
which would at least lock the gui elements for tx
so when someone have access to ur minting PC he cant send coins without know PW even if its unlocked for POS

OK I believe adding that "for minting only" option will help make our qt client more secure.

And thus we decide to take it as a priority and will add it in v.1.5.1.

Stay tuned.

Peter

[EnergyCoinDev]

i see lot POS block created with a coinpile of 25000 or more and not split in two coin pile

is the wallet setting that split coin pile if its above 5000 ENRG disabled?

My best guess is someone did amend that 5000 split threshold in the source code on his own and use his own "private" client for staking.

We can't avoid it, because EnergyCoin is (and has to be) an open-sourced project.

But I bet most users won't do it, not only because of the solid skills needed to correctly amend the source code, but also for the reason that setting a too-high split threshold will eventually reduce their annualized PoS interest rate and thus a lower ROI for them.

Peter

[energycoin.operations]

i see lot POS block created with a coinpile of 25000 or more and not split in two coin pile

is the wallet setting that split coin pile if its above 5000 ENRG disabled?

My best guess is someone did amend that 5000 split threshold in the source code on his own and use his own "private" client for staking.

We can't avoid it, because EnergyCoin is (and has to be) an open-sourced project.

But I bet most users won't do it, not only because of the solid skills needed to correctly amend the source code, but also for the reason that setting a too-high split threshold will eventually reduce their annualized PoS interest rate and thus a lower ROI for them.

Peter

This are the wallets of the investors of EnergyCoin who paid for the development.
This feature is also to prevent that community EnergyCoin Foundation wallet becomes too fragmented and the other reason is  that small wallets can get a fair stake.

[cryptonit]

i see lot POS block created with a coinpile of 25000 or more and not split in two coin pile

is the wallet setting that split coin pile if its above 5000 ENRG disabled?

My best guess is someone did amend that 5000 split threshold in the source code on his own and use his own "private" client for staking.

We can't avoid it, because EnergyCoin is (and has to be) an open-sourced project.

But I bet most users won't do it, not only because of the solid skills needed to correctly amend the source code, but also for the reason that setting a too-high split threshold will eventually reduce their annualized PoS interest rate and thus a lower ROI for them.

Peter

This are the wallets of the investors of EnergyCoin who paid for the development.
This feature is also to prevent that community EnergyCoin Foundation wallet becomes too fragmented and the other reason is  that small wallets can get a fair stake.

u know that most of the blocks found are found with coin pile above 5000
by provide special users wallets with above 5000 splittreshhold u basical cheat
to say everyone could adapt his codebase on his own and compile wallet
exclude like 95% of crypto crown from optimal POS coin pile size
which is at the moment between 7500 and 15000 enrg
a value that the available wallet is not able to maintain without mircomanagement of coin pile

this u really should consider to evaluate and change the setable range higher to at least 1000-15000

u have to understand a value of 15000 still will lead to average blockpile size 11250 (area 7501 to 14999) 
because a 15001 pile will still split

[cryptonit]

150 sec blocktime 120 million coins 1 day min age
if only lets say 50% of coins are in active POS wallet

that means 24 hours divided by 150 sec blocktime = 576 blocks a day

60 million coins divided by 576 blocks = 104166 ENRG


so in fact my posting above was wrong too

u should set the possible spittreshholdseting way higher up to 100000k

what setting people really choose should be their own estimation of POS difficulty

a default setting that make sense would be like 25000

at a system where u get not paid by coin age but by blocks found

people participate in POS must be able optimize their coin pile size

with coinpile below 5000 enrg u have for sure not the optimal size to compete in POS for blocks

just check here how many blocks have a value out of 5000 or below to judge my observation

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/enrg/
 

[energycoin.operations]

Core Team Members & Management

EnergyCoin Management Team
energycoin.operations - OP owner Brian Mulder
sardokan - technical and security advisor, the Community Manager on EnergyCoin Slack
neleonele - Core Team Member

EnergyCoin Dev Team
EnergyCoinDev - Peter, EnergyCoin Developer at EnergyCoin Dev Team

EnergyCoin Advising Team
Joachim de Koning - advisor, founder of InternetofCoins.org

EnergyCoin Foundation in formation
Anne-Marie Pronk
Rob Bakker

Investors EnergyCoin
Crypto4Jan

Want to contribute and join us? You may contact the members of management or dev team for further discussion.

Hi Community,

Crypto4Jan has handed over the leadership of EnergyCoin, see quote the new team.

[cryptonit]

can someone explain the background of that change in leadership
does it have impact on the roadmap and vision

i guess it would be great if the new project leader give a statement about
vision and roadmap from his perspective

some info about the foundation that is in formation would be also nice
additional info if and how people can join it

[EnergyCoinDev]

150 sec blocktime 120 million coins 1 day min age
if only lets say 50% of coins are in active POS wallet

that means 24 hours divided by 150 sec blocktime = 576 blocks a day

60 million coins divided by 576 blocks = 104166 ENRG


so in fact my posting above was wrong too

u should set the possible spittreshholdseting way higher up to 100000k

what setting people really choose should be their own estimation of POS difficulty

a default setting that make sense would be like 25000

at a system where u get not paid by coin age but by blocks found

people participate in POS must be able optimize their coin pile size

with coinpile below 5000 enrg u have for sure not the optimal size to compete in POS for blocks

just check here how many blocks have a value out of 5000 or below to judge my observation

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/enrg/
 

Hello cryptonit,

Thanks for your suggestion.

FYI, I really didn't know about that "investors wallets". I stepped in at a later stage after the last client release. You can check my first post date. While I am still getting to figure out the past history, I will discuss with Brian how we should deal with that "investors wallets" and we will get back to the community later.

Back to your suggestion, as you seem to have a good understanding on our current system, you should clearly know that setting a lower default split threshold is the only way encouraging smaller holders to participate in PoS.

If we changed it to something like 25000, most new blocks would be found by larger holders and all smaller holders will likely leave.

This is the problem of most other coins adopting similar fixed PoS design. They have difficulties in getting more new investors who normally are all smaller holders at start.

We need a better balance, and we also need some understandings from current large holders the importance of a network encouraging smaller holders participations.

Nevertheless, we did take care of the needs of micromanagement for some larger holders. In v.1.5.0, we have a new function "sendsplit", which should help large holders managing and splitting into multiple outputs easily.

Still, I am open to any discussion about changing the default split threshold. If the community understands the risk and still wants to change it, just let me know. We can set up a poll for different threshold values and then let the community vote for it.

Peter

[cryptonit]

If we changed it to something like 25000, most new blocks would be found by larger holders and all smaller holders will likely leave.

thats wrong in fact the situation u describe is what we face now

because people who can adapt wallet code and compile wallets
and people who dont mind adjust optimal coin pile size manual will then rule the playfield
and the small user who just use abilities the wallet offer is who suffers disadvantage
and that "special" investor wallets have the freedom that everyone deserve
create a bad look that doesnt fit to the clean coin image u created until yet



25000 ENRG is not big

and as a small investor i better have a single 25000 coin pile who mint every 1-2 days 5 ENRG for me
and i know i get a faire share of POS income


than have a lot small 5000 or even smaller ENRG coin pile that hard able find a block

u might say but even 5000 enrg can find a block just need a weeks and luck

thats true

but what u forget is

in the same timeframe a optimal sized block did mint a few times already

all i request is a fair playground and dont limit for every user configureable setting

u dont have to fear a nothing to stake issue as i explained only 576 coin pile need to take part in POS that this will never happen

i think we agree that crypto should give people freedom and not limit their choices

please follow that path


a fair area of setting would be

splittreshhold default 15000 or or the value user defined in conf
without any min max range at all

who set it to low create dust and wont mint blocks
who set it to high is sacrificing possible income (which if big owner do for support small guys is nice)
who dont set it at all have with 15000 at least a 3x more effective value than now

[EnergyCoinDev]

please follow that path

Not that I don't want to. At code level, I can't. In fact, crypto codes are full of rules and over 99% of them are not (and should not be) configurable. Those keep promoting crypto should represent freedom is probably a marketing myth.

Please don't get me wrong. I fully respect your freedom expressing your views and if your suggestion is good for most users and worth the efforts, I will make that happen. Just like you requested for an "unlock for minting only" option on GUI, I accepted it even without a second thought.

who dont set it at all have with 15000 at least a 3x more effective value than now

Your suggestion is based on your assumption that if we changed the default split threshold to 15000, your wallet would be 3x more effective and would likely give you 3x better PoS income. It's not going to happen. Don't forget you won't be the only one setting to 15000 and difficulty will readjust. So if it takes you 5 days to stake a new block with 5000 ENRG now, it will take you almost the same time to stake a new block with 15000 ENRG after the change. Do you get it now? That's why I said all smaller holders will likely leave. And I didn't say it won't affect anyone else. Those who still decide to stay will need to suffer a lower ROI than before, because everyone will need 3x more coins each pile to stay competitive and keep their previous PoS income.

Please note that 5 ENRG PoS reward is already not very attractive now. After the ROI change some "middle-class" may also leave, and it will be more difficult to get new users. These are the side effects the whole community needs to think about.

P.S.: I agree that "special" investor wallets do not look good for us. Thanks for pointing it out and we will deal with it. But from the block explorer, those wallets seem to have set an unreasonably high split threshold that doesn't make them profitable at all. If they wanted to abuse, they should had set it at a much lower level.

Peter

[cryptonit]

as u said u not that familar with POS coins

i am

and that code part about split and merge coins is full adjustable
even on a private compiled wallet that will stay full compatible with main network

when u mint a block other wallets just verify if u beat the POS difficulty = valid found a block
and  all the coin pile u submit are above min age and all the rewards u claim fit to coin ruleset

the coin pile size and how many coin piles u submit at once is just decided by local wallet
even the target address where the POS rewards are send too

i dont like to use empty phrases like 99% of cryptocoin code is not adjustable
if in fact i already explained the part we talking about belong to the other 1%

we NOT talk here about a hardfork change

[EnergyCoinDev]

as u said u not that familar with POS coins

i am

and that code part about split and merge coins is full adjustable
even on a private compiled wallet that will stay full compatible with main network

when u mint a block other wallets just verify if u beat the POS difficulty = valid found a block
and  all the coin pile u submit are above min age and all the rewards u claim fit to coin ruleset

the coin pile size and how many coin piles u submit at once is just decided by local wallet
even the target address where the POS rewards are send too

i dont like to use empty phrases like 99% of cryptocoin code is not adjustable
if in fact i already explained the part we talking about belong to the other 1%

we NOT talk here about a hardfork change

Hello cryptonit,

Clarification: What I mean is that only a very few settings are coded as configurable in console or GUI. Even for those configurable settings, we don't get complete freedom entering any random value we like. That was my main point, generally speaking, crypto is not something that can represent freedom.

Please, let's not argue who is more familiar with PoS, and whether the split and merge parts are adjustable or not. It is too obvious these parts must be adjustable, or else why we need to raise a discussion here?

Calm down please. And let's focus on discussing the pros and cons of changing the threshold we are talking about. Thank you.

Peter

[energycoin.operations]

EnergyCoin Foundation community fund is now splited into blocks of 9888 coins to a new address.
The split size is set to 5000 what means that they split when they reach 10k.
So we can end the discussion and continue in positive direction.

Brian

[cryptonit]

EnergyCoin Foundation community fund is now splited into blocks of 9888 coins to a new address.
The split size is set to 5000 what means that they split when they reach 10k.
So we can end the discussion and continue in positive direction.

Brian

well done

this way 10 million active coins play by same rules as everyone else

thx

if and how to adapt rules later on
is then not so important if no one is excluded from it

[jalmari]

EnergyCoin Foundation community fund is now splited into blocks of 9888 coins to a new address.
The split size is set to 5000 what means that they split when they reach 10k.
So we can end the discussion and continue in positive direction.

Brian

well done

this way 10 million active coins play by same rules as everyone else

thx

if and how to adapt rules later on
is then not so important if no one is excluded from it

I dont know if it is related to this discussion as I cannot follow the details, but since the new client (1.5) it has been very difficult for me to mint new coins.

Unfortunately I cannot keep my wallet open all the time, but I open it every day for a couple of hours. Before the update I always managed to mint something and now it can several days in between.

So, for me the update is not encouraging to stake but vice versa.

[cryptonit]

if it is related to this discussion as I cannot follow the details, but since the new client (1.5) it has been very difficult for me to mint new coins.

Unfortunately I cannot keep my wallet open all the time, but I open it every day for a couple of hours. Before the update I always managed to mint something and now it can several days in between.

So, for me the update is not encouraging to stake but vice versa.

u need to structure coins pile in a good size via the sendsplit console command

and u need in conf the setting that make sure coins dont split to low

a easy step by step guide for this two steps should be provided by ENRG team

or and that would be even better make better default settings

and provide a simple split button in gui

the less power user knowledge is needed to use something effectiv

the more normal users will be able take part without disadvantage

[cryptonit]

at home im testing

a 88€ windows 10 tablet with 2 GB ram
    versus
a raspi2 with rokos with 1 GB ram

i have to say bang for the buck
the cheap tablet beat a raspi solution always

and because of the 2gb ram u can run more wallets
and once u stop ur crypto hobby staking coins with low power devices

u can give it ur kids or grandkids as youtube or playing games device....

to make a rokos raspi a winner here i think it need to provide added value
to counter the tablet have
full windows 10
7" touchscreen
2GB ram
wlan bluetooth OTG USB

[jalmari]

EnergyCoin Foundation community fund is now splited into blocks of 9888 coins to a new address.
The split size is set to 5000 what means that they split when they reach 10k.
So we can end the discussion and continue in positive direction.

Brian

well done

this way 10 million active coins play by same rules as everyone else

thx

if and how to adapt rules later on
is then not so important if no one is excluded from it

I dont know if it is related to this discussion as I cannot follow the details, but since the new client (1.5) it has been very difficult for me to mint new coins.

Unfortunately I cannot keep my wallet open all the time, but I open it every day for a couple of hours. Before the update I always managed to mint something and now it can several days in between.

So, for me the update is not encouraging to stake but vice versa.

I understand this. But technically. Before update you where getting you stake coins but not really securing the network. A POS coin needs that a good ratio of holders have their wallets staking 24/7.

So nothing against you. But before you where getting coins, and not securing the network.

Now. You can consider it's the same for you. As the coin have much lowered inflation. I think it's economically quite the same.

Hope you will be abble to stake 24/7 one day.

You should consider a raspberry pi with rokos to have your wallet staking all time for low energy usage and low hardware investment.

I understand your point, but I dont fully agree. I think that I am securing network even if I am not staking 24/7, I am still staking everyday.

Also, I am not sure this current system attracts us with less coins when there is no ageing, or have I understood something wrong here?

[jalmari]

Btw, if I would circulate all my coins thru another wallet e.g. an exchange, would it increase the probability to mint?