[POLL] Does EVAN DUFFIELD regret instamining DRK/DASH at 100x emission?

[Prosperityforall]

Do you regret releasing a scam miner for the monero launch? Do you regret not taking more time to actually evaluate the code of the coin you took over or did you profit greatly from the scam as well? I wonder if you regret those actions.

Your upset because you dev a coin that is not doing well compared to its competitors. Instead of actually competing, you decide to sling mud.

Smooth, why didn't you re-release Monero once you found out about the scam miner? Also, do you regret the scam miner? I'ts just a simple question, as simple as the one asked in this OP.

He can say that he doesn't regret it, because officially it was TFT who started Monero. By having his confederate (or alter ego?) do the deed, Smooth has removed himself from overt blame.

But he still took over the coin. Does he regret not starting with a fresh blockchain after "discovering" the embedded scam?

Your trolling is illogical. Why would someone restart the blockchain when it's already been used by countless people since it's release? Restarting it at that point would be scam-like.

Unlike Dash, where it had more than enough time to restart the blockchain during it's 2 day instamine scam.

[Brilliantrocket]

Your trolling is illogical. Why would someone restart the blockchain when it's already been used by countless people since it's release? Restarting it at that point would be scam-like.

Unlike Dash, where it had more than enough time to restart the blockchain during it's 2 day instamine scam.

Countless people? In what, 2 weeks? Please 

[Prosperityforall]

Your trolling is illogical. Why would someone restart the blockchain when it's already been used by countless people since it's release? Restarting it at that point would be scam-like.

Unlike Dash, where it had more than enough time to restart the blockchain during it's 2 day instamine scam.

Countless people? In what, 2 weeks? Please  

You're joking right? Within 2 weeks a OTC-thread came out where users bought/sold plus the new flux of users mining with cpu's. Mining was available on Windows unlike Dash, so it was accessible to a large amount of people fortunately.

[smooth]

Do you regret releasing a scam miner for the monero launch? Do you regret not taking more time to actually evaluate the code of the coin you took over or did you profit greatly from the scam as well? I wonder if you regret those actions.

Your upset because you dev a coin that is not doing well compared to its competitors. Instead of actually competing, you decide to sling mud.

Smooth, why didn't you re-release Monero once you found out about the scam miner? Also, do you regret the scam miner? I'ts just a simple question, as simple as the one asked in this OP.

He can say that he doesn't regret it, because officially it was TFT who started Monero. By having his confederate (or alter ego?) do the deed, Smooth has removed himself from overt blame. Relaunch it? No, because then all of his scammed coins would disappear.

There was no significant number of scammed coins at all. The mining proceeded at the usual slow pace, with a large number of people mining and posting on the thread. Even if I were TFT (of course I'm not, and had nothing to do with him, and no one credibly believes that I am), I wouldn't have gotten much.

As for the claim that somehow people getting 1-2 blocks per day was an indication of malfeasance, think about the numbers. There are 1440 blocks per day. If a computer gets 1-2 blocks per day that is something like 1000 desktops mining it, which isn't many at all, considering the dozens of people posting about mining on the thread and miners using server farms and cloud nodes (one large cloud nodes was equal to roughly 4 desktops). That's the normal amount you would expect. So again, this is evidence against any (significant) scam mining actually going on, not in favor.

[smooth]

Your trolling is illogical. Why would someone restart the blockchain when it's already been used by countless people since it's release? Restarting it at that point would be scam-like.

Unlike Dash, where it had more than enough time to restart the blockchain during it's 2 day instamine scam.

Countless people? In what, 2 weeks? Please 

Yeah the flocking of people to the coin was really very fast. For one thing there was a built in interest base of people who were already following/mining/trading BCN and wanted a new non-premined fork, so they came over right away (most or all of the core team came from that). For another, the big pump of DRK was starting. Anon was hot. Monero was the hot new anon.

The OTC thread started Apr 21, and there was a lot of trading on it right away. Check the ticker: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=578192.0

Please stop the thread derailing though Brilliantrocket. You're not one of these rabid attack-the-attacker Dash fanboy types, so you know better. If you doubt the early history of Monero, create a thread for that.

Also, btw, as I pointed out earlier, the Dash instamine scam was mostly 1-day not 2-days, and most of even the first day was within a few hours. It shouldn't have been launched at all, by Evans own promises, but it could easily have been relaunched/halted after just a few hours to get rid of what was already an enormous instamine mess (million coins or so after a few hours), which is totally different from proposing relaunching something after 2 weeks with an active community and a lot of BTC already traded for it because of some code in the miner that we don't know even did anything at all (and if it did, it wasn't much, as I explained).

[coins101]

*****PLOT TWIST ALERT****

We, well. So now the Proven Monero Scam Launch (tm), was a scam launch, but it just wasn't that bad of a scam.

Oh, my. This Proven Monero Scam Launch (tm) is the gift that just keeps giving, still.

...
There was no significant number of scammed coins......

'It was a scam launch, but we don't mind that much. We want to focus on smearing the lead dev of the project we consider the main competitor.' (see still on topic)



No, I'm sure you don't mind benefiting from a Proven Scam Launch.

[generalizethis]

*****PLOT TWIST ALERT****

We, well. So now the Proven Monero Scam Launch (tm), was a scam launch, but it just wasn't that bad of a scam.

Oh, my. This Proven Monero Scam Launch (tm) is the gift that just keeps giving, still.

Do you have numbers to back your claim or is supposition enough for you?

[coins101]

.....but it could easily have been relaunched/halted after just a few hours...... which is totally different from proposing relaunching something after 2 weeks with an active community and a lot of BTC already traded for it....

It is very convenient to say one dev should have relaunched, and in the same sentence say Monero couldn't relaunch because of the passage of two weeks.

You should have stopped, fixed and relaunched the Proven Monero Scam Launch, but it was you who decided not to:

I say we wait and see what happens over the next week or two. I'm pretty sure you are right about shitcoin central, no matter what we do here.

[generalizethis]

.....but it could easily have been relaunched/halted after just a few hours...... which is totally different from proposing relaunching something after 2 weeks with an active community and a lot of BTC already traded for it....

It is very convenient to say one dev should have relaunched, when you should have done the same thing with the Proven Monero Scam Launch, but you decided not to:

I say we wait and see what happens over the next week or two. I'm pretty sure you are right about shitcoin central, no matter what we do here.

Maybe you missed my question.  Do you have numbers to back your claim or is supposition enough for you?

[coins101]

Oh, I like this guy who commented about the Proven Monero Scam Launch:

ninja launch with new algo

meh...

Let's have a new *** for Monero: ninja

No. No. No Ninja launch at all:

ninja launch with new algo

meh...

What are you even talking about?
...
2. Not a ninja launch (was preannounced, was delayed to get Windows binaries ready, etc.)

Oh, yes. Windows was ready.

...

The Windows build seems kinda buggy...

It gets, better. It's not just buggy, it didn't work:

....Actually coming from Unix/Linux I don't mind command line applications, but at least the documentation should be correct and the script posted in the Windows tutorial does NOT work.
..

And indeed wasn't fair, on a number of fronts:

......This looks unfair to noobs

But maybe the windows build was also crippled to prevent people from mining? Who knows. Questions beyond crippled miners are emerging now.

The plot thickens, dear reader.

[generalizethis]

.....but it could easily have been relaunched/halted after just a few hours...... which is totally different from proposing relaunching something after 2 weeks with an active community and a lot of BTC already traded for it....

It is very convenient to say one dev should have relaunched, when you should have done the same thing with the Proven Monero Scam Launch, but you decided not to:

I say we wait and see what happens over the next week or two. I'm pretty sure you are right about shitcoin central, no matter what we do here.

Maybe you missed my question.  Do you have numbers to back your claim or is supposition enough for you?

Coins101, I'm still waiting ^

[smooth]

Oh, I like this guy who commented about the Proven Monero Scam Launch:

ninja launch with new algo

meh...

Let's have a new *** for Monero: ninja

No. No. No Ninja launch at all:

ninja launch with new algo

meh...

What are you even talking about?
...
2. Not a ninja launch (was preannounced, was delayed to get Windows binaries ready, etc.)

I'm wondering coins101, did Dash have Windows binaries at launch? Did Evan delay the launch 12 hours to have Windows binaries ready, the way TFT did (one of the few things he ever did right), or did he instead launch an instamine of a million or so coins in a few hours with no Windows binaries released? Which is it?

I say we wait and see what happens over the next week or two. I'm pretty sure you are right about shitcoin central, no matter what we do here.

Do you have any idea what was being discussed there? (I'm betting you don't.) I was concerned about the stability of the network with the fast 1 minute blocks. It turned out my concerns were somewhat overblown and it wasn't an especially serious problem in practice.

[smooth]

Oh, yes. Windows was ready.

...

The Windows build seems kinda buggy...

It gets, better. It's not just buggy, it didn't work:

....Actually coming from Unix/Linux I don't mind command line applications, but at least the documentation should be correct and the script posted in the Windows tutorial does NOT work.
..

Incorrect. There was nothing wrong with the Windows build, the user was just being impatient. The Linux version gives the same error if you try to start mining before syncing to the network, as explained by a helpful user right away:

It is important to wait until bitmonerod sync before start mining.  You will see message like:

You are now synchronized with the network. You may now start simplewallet.

Please note, that the blockchain will be saved only after you quit the daemon wi
th "exit" command or if you use "save" command.
Otherwise, you will possibly need to synchronize the blockchain again.

Then ready to mine.  Let know if this fixes issue. 

Followed by:

so thanks for your help.

So you have working?  If so thats good.  I am glad to help.  Good luck mining!

I understand there were some bugs having to do with mining during the Dash launch, and weren't so easy to fix by syncing before mining. Is that correct?

[smooth]

And indeed wasn't fair, on a number of fronts:

......This looks unfair to noobs

Interesting quote. Let's look at what inconvenient truth is hiding behind that odd looking ellipsis you put there:

I dont know how to compile anything. There should be something like ticking a box to start mining on a gui wallet. This looks unfair to noobs

Would that user have been able to mine Dash during the instamine?

[coins101]

Once upon a time Darkcoin was fair, but now probably because it is way ahead, its not fair:

...To be fair there is an advantage to DarkCoin not using any new crypto, and I would mention that to maintain a bit of balance. Ring signatures are not new, but they haven't been used in exactly this way before, and the implementation is also immature, so there are risks here.
...

Are you, dear reader, beginning to smell the bullshit now?

[smooth]

Once upon a time Darkcoin was fair, but now probably because it is way ahead, its not fair:

...To be fair there is an advantage to DarkCoin not using any new crypto, and I would mention that to maintain a bit of balance. Ring signatures are not new, but they haven't been used in exactly this way before, and the implementation is also immature, so there are risks here.
...

Are you, dear reader, beginning to smell the bullshit now?

No, unless you mean the bullshit of you taking quotes out of context and interpreting them deceptively (2nd time at least).

I never said Darkcoin was fair, I said that using Bitcoins cryptography was, by itself, an advantage in risk reduction over something new. Of course masternodes are new code too, so there's risk introduced relative to Bitcoin in both coins.

At that point I didn't know anything about how unfair and shady darkcoin was. I wasn't following it at all really, didn't know about the instamine, and never did until Evan took his instamined wealth and used it to piss over the (real) Dashcoin community.

[coins101]

Seems to me like there are several people here taking things out of context. I'm just presenting facts.

But, let's keep going with the Proven Monero Scam Launch.

The Proven Monero Scam Launch, has its first bug introduced to skew the mining even more (was there any real need, the de-optimized code wasn't enough?)

so, should we stop mining or what?   i just found a block few hours back

The current situation is that someone disabled mempool and forked the chain so that the invalid tx doesn't get in the way. But the difficulty hasn't changed much so blocks are being found much more rarely than 1 minute. So you can mine, it's just very slow. A few people are on the freenode channel trying to solve the cause of the problem.

What was the bug?

Before this thread is too big, I would like to state that a bug has been identified in the emission curve.....Currently coins are emitted at double the rate that was intended.

So it wasn't just one isolated scam code, there was all sorts going on. It seems to be a combination of factors.

* De-optimazed code for the masses distributed from the OP (that's where those not in on the scam would go for a miner)
* Rigged code to prevent people from mining or submitting work
* Windows binaries purposefully not working
* A secret change to the emissions while most people were locked out, to aid the profiteering of those in the know who had the optimized codes

This is a real doozy in the Proven Monero Scam Launch.

The Proven Monero Scam Launch was in fact an instamine.

..I also feel that there is a great opportunity here that has been missed. You and thankful could have collaborated and brought bytecoin 2.0. A coin that builds onThe previous version. A gui, mac bineries. And accessible windows bineries. The link at the begging does not work.
...

... we can provide that as well on our totally not non-existent website.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah, this coin release feels a bit rushed, like others have mentioned. Seems some botnet has moved in too, given how high the difficulty is :/

Thank you Mr. Botnet for helping us secure the block chain.

Thanks Mr. Botnet? Possibly, you mean thanks Santa Claus for bringing some early gifts to those few who knew what was really going on.

So, dear reader. The pot is calling the kettle black. Lead devs using bully boy tactics and smears can work great if you have an agenda.  But make sure when you throw stones, that your house is not made of glass.

[AdamWhite]

Poor coins101, he's trying so hard.

His underlying message: stop talking about Evan's massive instamine fraud and criminal deception because...... Monero. The 4 choices in the OP seem fairly unbiased. Vote and stop trying to derail the thread.

[smooth]

@coins101

I suggest you look at a block explorer, or better yet the blockchain itself. The rate is exactly what was intended and published (unlike the coin that is the topic if this thread).  Tacotime misunderstood, but you are making a fool of yourself.

[coins101]

@coins101

I suggest you look at a block explorer, or better yet the blockc....hain itself. The rate is exactly what was intended and published (unlike the coin that is the topic if this thread).  Tacotime misunderstood, but you are making a fool of yourself.

No. Let's look at what the younger Smooth said at the time:

You make good points but unfortunately conflicting statements were made and it isn't possible to stick to them all. It was said that this coin had a mining reward schedule similar to bitcoin. In fact it is twice as fast as intended, even even a bit more than twice as fast as bitcoin.

If you acquired your coins on the basis of the advertised reward schedule, you would be disappointed, and rightfully so, as more coins come to into existence more quickly than you were led to believe.

To simply ignore that aspect of the bug is highly problematic. Every solution may be highly problematic, but the one being proposed was agreed as being the least bad by most of the major stakeholders. Maybe it will still not work, this coin will collapse, and there will need to be a relaunch, in which case all your coins will likely be worthless. I hope that doesn't happen.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.msg6364242#msg6364242

And here:

....here will likely be a "reverse stock split" turning these into 75k "new" coins at some point, because the mining reward is currently twice what is intended.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.msg6364320#msg6364320

And here:

It's not debasement. Debasement is issuing more coins, making existing coins worth less. The proposed bug fix is essentially a reverse stock split where every two old coins are exchanged for one new coin.

The extra coins being combined into one coin are coins you should not have received under the "close to Bitcoin's original curve" schedule that was advertised. To argue that bugs can't be fixed is absurd.

If there were a bug that gave some people a million extra coins for no reason in bitcoin or any other coin, you can bet there would be a fix to remove those coins.

As you say, this is all an experiment. If people abandon the coin in droves because of the reverse split, then that will be a useful experiment and we can all get on with our lives with some other coin. Most of us believe that the value of a coin with the cryptonote feature set, no-premine, no-instamine, no-tax, and a bitcoin-like reward schedule is compelling. We'll see if that turns out to be correct.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.msg6364494#msg6364494

You decided not to stop, fix, fork and relaunch. You have to own the Proven Monero Scam Launch.