[POLL] Does EVAN DUFFIELD regret instamining DRK/DASH at 100x emission?

[generalizethis]

In live, like minded people will always find there peers.
Evan with his Darkcoin shit attracts lowlifes, scums, and fraudsters like fly's to shit.
It tells a lot about the personalities involved.

Just an example of Monero supporters' double standards:

Who cares if a botnet mines Monero? 99% of all coins have for sure been mined by botnets. Even bitcoin.
I'd say the botnet operators are smart and knows how to make money, that's why they mine it.

I don't care who mines my Monero any more than I care who mines my gold and silver.

Screaming their lungs out because coins were mined fast in the beginning, yet have no problems happily receiving stolen property for their own gain.

Another scam apologist. Apparently this one is too stupid to understand the difference between botnet mining, and a dev yelling "NO PREMINE" then instamining 575,500 coins in the first hour (1.5 million in the first 8 hours)

I understand the difference quite well. Apparently it is you who is too stupid.
http://bit.ly/1JtjJAn

Make a bigger deal out of it when anyone (including Evan) solves botnet mining. Also can he go back in time and relaunch his coin fairly so as you and the other apologists don't have to deflect so much? It must be tiring, but good, no rest for the devil and all.

I believe a fast GPU or ASIC miner that makes CPU mining obsolete pretty much solves the botnet mining problem.

Time travel however is not yet possible AFAIK, which makes me think your crusade against instamine is running out of arguments. It must be tiring.

You believe wrong because LTC and BTC have known botnets (I'm sure dash has a botnet or fifty--thus destroying your point) and have this centralizing feature. I'm using centralizing as a feature very loosely. And it's not that I'm running out of arguments, it's that until dash is gone, you're going to keep seeing this one over and over and over again. It's like they say in the NFL, "If you don't like it, stop us."

[illodin]

In live, like minded people will always find there peers.
Evan with his Darkcoin shit attracts lowlifes, scums, and fraudsters like fly's to shit.
It tells a lot about the personalities involved.

Just an example of Monero supporters' double standards:

Who cares if a botnet mines Monero? 99% of all coins have for sure been mined by botnets. Even bitcoin.
I'd say the botnet operators are smart and knows how to make money, that's why they mine it.

I don't care who mines my Monero any more than I care who mines my gold and silver.

Screaming their lungs out because coins were mined fast in the beginning, yet have no problems happily receiving stolen property for their own gain.

Another scam apologist. Apparently this one is too stupid to understand the difference between botnet mining, and a dev yelling "NO PREMINE" then instamining 575,500 coins in the first hour (1.5 million in the first 8 hours)

I understand the difference quite well. Apparently it is you who is too stupid.
http://bit.ly/1JtjJAn

Make a bigger deal out of it when anyone (including Evan) solves botnet mining. Also can he go back in time and relaunch his coin fairly so as you and the other apologists don't have to deflect so much? It must be tiring, but good, no rest for the devil and all.

I believe a fast GPU or ASIC miner that makes CPU mining obsolete pretty much solves the botnet mining problem.

Time travel however is not yet possible AFAIK, which makes me think your crusade against instamine is running out of arguments. It must be tiring.

You believe wrong because LTC and BTC have known botnets (I'm sure dash has a botnet or fifty--thus destroying your point) and have this centralizing feature. I'm using centralizing as a feature very loosely. And it's not that I'm running out of arguments, it's that until dash is gone, you're going to keep seeing this one over and over and over again. It's like they say in the NFL, "If you don't like it, stop us."

Do you agree having a fast GPU or ASIC miner makes botnet problem negligible? If you're claiming it doesn't because it still exists as some fractions of percentage are being mined by them, you're also agreeing that XMR is no better than DASH's fast mining because XMR was also mined faster in the beginning than it's being mined now.

[Prosperityforall]

When comparing the two. The only thing about Monero that's odd is that it's original dev released it with bad miners, but there was no tampering with it's core features. Dash was released with bad miners plus had all it's core features extremely tampered with to make the instamined coins more valuable which can be compared to the selling and distributing of securities as Duffield has been the sole, core developer of Dash since it's beginnings. In either outcomes it's bad, if Mr. Duffield sold any of the coins he instamined that's like selling personal stocks or securities in a company. If he didn't sell any of the coins he instamined, then Dash is extremely suspectible to future dumps by him.

In that sense, Dash is the only coin that has an actual, illegal scam comitted by it's core developer. If crypto takes off I'll feel bad for anyone affiliated with Dash when the FTC and others come investigating.

Bump, Dash's emission rate was changed by it's developer multiple times in his favor, Monero's was not. The two cannot be compared, Dash had a illegitimate scam, Monero did not.

[smooth]

In live, like minded people will always find there peers.
Evan with his Darkcoin shit attracts lowlifes, scums, and fraudsters like fly's to shit.
It tells a lot about the personalities involved.

Just an example of Monero supporters' double standards:

Who cares if a botnet mines Monero? 99% of all coins have for sure been mined by botnets. Even bitcoin.
I'd say the botnet operators are smart and knows how to make money, that's why they mine it.

I don't care who mines my Monero any more than I care who mines my gold and silver.

Screaming their lungs out because coins were mined fast in the beginning, yet have no problems happily receiving stolen property for their own gain.

Another scam apologist. Apparently this one is too stupid to understand the difference between botnet mining, and a dev yelling "NO PREMINE" then instamining 575,500 coins in the first hour (1.5 million in the first 8 hours)

I understand the difference quite well. Apparently it is you who is too stupid.
http://bit.ly/1JtjJAn

Make a bigger deal out of it when anyone (including Evan) solves botnet mining. Also can he go back in time and relaunch his coin fairly so as you and the other apologists don't have to deflect so much? It must be tiring, but good, no rest for the devil and all.

I believe a fast GPU or ASIC miner that makes CPU mining obsolete pretty much solves the botnet mining problem.

Time travel however is not yet possible AFAIK, which makes me think your crusade against instamine is running out of arguments. It must be tiring.

You believe wrong because LTC and BTC have known botnets (I'm sure dash has a botnet or fifty--thus destroying your point) and have this centralizing feature. I'm using centralizing as a feature very loosely. And it's not that I'm running out of arguments, it's that until dash is gone, you're going to keep seeing this one over and over and over again. It's like they say in the NFL, "If you don't like it, stop us."

Do you agree having a fast GPU or ASIC miner makes botnet problem negligible? If you're claiming it doesn't because it still exists as some fractions of percentage are being mined by them, you're also agreeing that XMR is no better than DASH's fast mining because XMR was also mined faster in the beginning than it's being mined now.

First of all, as a factual matter, I do disagree to a point. Bitcoin botnets are irrelevant because of the extreme efficiency advantage of Bitcoin ASICs. But if you consider the case of Scrypt on GPUs, there were extremely large botnets mining LTC and DOGE during their GPU era. The modest operational costs of botnets mean that they don't so much care about efficiency and will CPU mine even a GPU-mineable coin if the efficiency within reason (and I'm pretty sure X11 falls i that category, SHA256 ASICs do not), as long as the price of the coin is high enough. (This happened mostly during the pump period of those coins, I believe.)

There have also been reported botnets that GPU mine, though it is somewhat rare. I think it would happen more if we saw another big pump of GPU-mineable coins though.

Finally a lot of the so-called botnets are actually cloud mining scammers, and they definitely use GPUs. I'm told the rage is (or at least at some point was) to GPU mine Dash or some other X11 coin and CPU mine Monero on their scammed GPU cloud nodes.

More generally, it depends on what argument you are trying to make. If you think that botnets mining a coin are inherently immoral or a reputational risk to crypto coins, the the amount matters, somewhat (more botnets -> more immoral and more reputation risk, probably, though these are both somewhat open the question).

If you are arguing that people can't or won't buy coins because they are or might be buying "stolen property" then the amount doesn't matter that much once the coins get mixed together. If you buy 100 coins and 3 of them is "stolen property" then you are still buying stolen property. If that prospect bothers you in terms of risk or morality, probably you don't buy at all regardless of the size of botnets.

I'm still wondering what this has to do with whether Evan regrets instamining Dash though.

[Prosperityforall]

I guarantee you that Evan does not regret having invented the number 1 decentralized Bitcoin2.O coin on the planet with innovations over bitcoin like 20 second anonymous transactions and a completely self funding platform (so he does not have to waste his own well deserved premine to develop the coin further).  I love to see entrepreneurs get paid for inventing innovations that give me more financial options than I had last year.  Bitcoin1.O is great, but it does not give me many options.

I hope that Evan makes more money than BitcoinJesus1.O and Satoshi combined.  He deservs it for taking a great tech invented by Satoshi and making it more useful and versatile and FUN (self FUNding)!

How is the development of your favorite coin funded?  Donations?  Generous devs?  Leftover IPO funds?  Or did your coin's dev leave?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/dogecoin-creator-jackson-palmer-leave-dogecoin-community-calls-cult-like/

DASH - at least we have a dev

Where is Satoshi, and what has he done for bitcoin lately?

The Bitcoin Foundation won't even fund any further development?

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-foundation-director-no-plans-to-fund-core-development/

A coin that funds itself can only grow.  Who cares if it is slow.  It's still growing.

Money is made through growth.

If the price of all crypto became frozen forever, then how many of you would never post here again?

So many things wrong with this...

[mrcashking]

NO - he knowingly engaged in premeditated fraud and profited immensely from it as well as his little fans. That is far to much of the supply for so few to have control over. This is not going to end well i feel sorry for who is left holding!. Also will be a bad day for bitcoin with that amount of coin being stolen.

[Hypnotique]

Thank you for > 100 votes

Voting will be locked at 1000 votes

[Prosperityforall]

NO - he knowingly engaged in premeditated fraud and profited immensely from it as well as his little fans. That is far to much of the supply for so few to have control over. This is not going to end well i feel sorry for who is left holding!. Also will be a bad day for bitcoin with that amount of coin being stolen.

This^, evidence suggests that it was indeed premeditated, if it wasn't then he wouldn't have sliced the block reward, max coin supply, and more. If/when crypto was/becomes regulated, currencies like Dash/Darkcoin would not exist/would be illegal.

[Jeff8247]

I see its only the Trollero fans in here circle jerking each other.

Well done guys, keep up the good fight!

[generalizethis]

I see its only the Trollero fans in here circle jerking each other.

Well done guys, keep up the good fight!

Fact: Over 500k coins were mined in the first hour.

Fact: Over 1.5 million coins were mined in the first day.

This poll is highlighting facts, so what can you do but make it an us versus them  scenario to fit the, "They're out to get us!" narrative that has nothing to do with facts? If you don't want to defend an instamine, then don't defend an instamine.

[Brilliantrocket]

I see its only the Trollero fans in here circle jerking each other.

Well done guys, keep up the good fight!

Fact: Over 500k coins were mined in the first hour.

Fact: Over 1.5 million coins were mined in the first day.

This poll is highlighting facts, so what can you do but make it an us versus them  scenario to fit the, "They're out to get us!" narrative that has nothing to do with facts? If you don't want to defend an instamine, then don't defend an instamine.

You guys keep repeating these things as if you expect something to happen. People know that 2 million coins were instamined over 48 hours. Personally, I'm happy that the instamine occurred. In fact, the lack of an instamine in Monero is one of the reasons that I favor Dash and don't buy more Monero. If I don't feel like I got an unfair advantage over others, I just can't get behind a project.

[generalizethis]

I see its only the Trollero fans in here circle jerking each other.

Well done guys, keep up the good fight!

Fact: Over 500k coins were mined in the first hour.

Fact: Over 1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours.

This poll is highlighting facts, so what can you do but make it an us versus them  scenario to fit the, "They're out to get us!" narrative that has nothing to do with facts? If you don't want to defend an instamine, then don't defend an instamine.

You guys keep repeating these things as if you expect something to happen. People know that 2 million coins were instamined over 48 hours. Personally, I'm happy that the instamine occurred. In fact, the lack of an instamine in Monero is one of the reasons that I favor Dash and don't buy more Monero. If I don't feel like I got an unfair advantage over others, I just can't get behind a project.

I'm not going to even get into the amorality or short-sighted strategy of your conclusion--no intention of repeating my opinion. Where I flaw your argument is in the bolded part. There's no possible way you can account for every last person knowing that dash was instamined, hence why dash fans were quick to rally and have the premine asterisks removed from coinmarketcap. As long as people are entering the market and discovering the altcoin thread, the more it makes sense to keep bumping it and restating the facts.

[smooth]

Please stop repeating the "48 hours" story about the instamine.

That timeline is part of the ongoing Dash whitewashing, or at least lightening, effort. After all, 48 hours sounds like a period of time when quite a few people could reasonably expect to get in there and mine with everyone else, regardless of time zone, etc.

In fact, 78% of the instamine occurred within 8 hours and 92% of it occurred within 24 hours. Anyone showing up after the first three hours was already shut out of most of it.

Specifically:

Wtihin 1 hour of the ambush launch, 575.5k coins were mined.

Within 8 hours, 1.57 million coins.

Within 24 hours 1.84 million coins.

By that time, the hourly mining had dropped to the relatively insignificant 10k coins/hour, 1/20th of the average rate over the first 8 hours.

As you can see from this graph, after 9 hours, it was basically all over. If you went to bed when Evan told you go to go bed (because he "definitely" wasn't going to launch), by the time you woke up, you missed it.

[xxxgoodgirls]

Well I do not really care nor does anybody who has not  conflict of interest cause I could've bought all of them for cents back in the days. Plus the guy and his team have been constantly delivering for more than a year, so, I move on the instamine.

[coins101]

I had to give up counting how many Monero people are here.

Seems like a continuation of some sort of smear campaign. The 'cut off the head' approach.

I might now have take a good look at the deceptive launch of Monero and compare the two launches.

The purpose would be to consider what might constitute a scam launch and what might be considered legitimately a mistake. So on topic.

From memory about Monero,

The Monero launch included a launch pack that included some deceptive code aimed at rigging the mining for the material benefit of one or a few at the expense of the many. Also known as fraud.

Before we can set up pools..
We need a miner.

Currently the mining is done In the wallet AFAIK

There is also a miner in the standard build, just no pool to connect it to.

Not long after launch, around one to two weeks, people started to smell a rat and at some point the Monero dev somehow did a runner, or possibly just changed account profile and carried (carries) on being involved.

Some of the early community members decided that, despite being only one or two weeks in, they would continue with the project rather than stop, fix, relaunch.

That smells a bit. Had we seen two or three months of effort, then maybe a continuation would have been more believable. People were smelling a rigged launch at the time:

i would like to propose a conspiracy theory here. could it be that TFT and friends created a problem where there was non, as they see the coin going up in popularity and thus limit ability for people to mine or participate.
1. yes mining continued: is this true can a non techy very this
2. increased frustration: people may hold of mining while a better wallet is in place. thus decreasing difficulty and increasing coin accumulation of those in the know.
3. a day later and still unable to access wallet from first page. people are pointed to github but I do not see a link there that says updated wallet. click here and your parse problems will be solved.
4. i recall i could not participate early because link was botched. there was no note underneath to clarify this for those new to cryptocurrencies. for 5 days I could not mine while tft and friends went about it merrily.

would tft go to such an extreme.... just speculating.

There is no dispute that Monero was launched with deceptive code intended to steal.  It has been admitted by the lead devs:

We've admitted to the crippled miner. We were the first ones to discover it, disclose it, and fix it. The reason I don't dwell on Monero's faults is not to hide them......

And the other lead dev:

....
The "dev" who launched Monero is thankful_for_today: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=233561

Thankfully when we (the current Monero core team) found the purposefully obfuscated code we immediately fixed it and made the fix freely available to all. This is what smooth means when he describes the Monero launch as fair. As dga says, at most thankful_for_today would've had a week of advantageous mining, but as our difficulty retargetting worked just fine and we didn't have crazy high initial block rewards there was very little that the scammer thankful_for_today could've made off with.

Note that these are all facts, directly observable by comparing increases in difficulty (ie. network hash rate) with the improved hashing code submitted to github. It does not require trust, it does not require anyone to take our word that coins have been sold or distributed, it is not based on hope. It is absolute, truthful, factual, verifiable by all.
...

A fact cannot be considered subjective.  Subjective is a view not based on fact.

Subjective views, such as the current Monero devs saying that they don't view a week or so of Monero fraud as meaningful because it wasn't that bad of a fraud in the great scheme of things.

Well that depends on your point of view. The police might choose to prosecute someone who steals a candy bar, because theft is in fact illegal.

So a week of fraud being acceptable is subjective when proposed as such.

Objective views are based on fact.

The facts are Monero had a scam launch and people made decisions not to stop, fix and relaunch. So you have to now own the scam launch code provided with the launch pack.

So far Monero has more of a provable launch issue than Darkcoin.

You see, we can all play these games all day long. If that is what you really want to waste your time on.

[smooth]

coins101:

1. Nobody knows whether the crippled miner in Monero did anything at all, or was just left over from Bytecoin (where it was used to fake the age of the blockchain and hide the premine). There is frankly no real evidence of it; for the first week after the original developer launched Monero, the difficulty was low and plenty of people were mining. If he or anyone was scam mining with an optimized miner, it couldn't have been much. It was only later, when the coin became more popular that the difficulty started to go up. Now if TFT deliberately kept that cripled miner code in there to scam, don't you think he would have mined hard at the beginning, the way Evan did? (Note: I'm not claiming to know that he didn't mine with an advantage from it, just that I don't know either way, and neither do you.)

2. At the time TFT was kicked out, the crippled miner was not even known by anyone, nor were there any other significant issues (there was a minor glitch with one stuck transaction for example, which didn't really break anything; I think that was the topic of the quote you posted, but I'm not sure) that would have indicated a reason for a relaunch. He was kicked out mostly because: 1) he disappeared a lot, and the community wanted more involved, transparent, and trustworthy developers, and 2) he was pushing (broken) merged mining code into the repo even though the community had decided against merged mining.

3. On the topic of provable launch issues, you do realize that the Dash launch was at the very least a provable ambush launch with deceptive and misleading statements made by Evan about the launch time right? And also that it is provable that there was a bug or a "bug" in the Dash code at launch which created a massive number of extra coins (and unlike when this happened with Bitcoin, those coins were never destroyed, they were kept). Or shall I post his quotes again?

And BTW, this has nothing to do with whether Evan regrets instamining Dash. What do you think, coins101, does he regret it?

I get that you would prefer a culture in the coin world where developers left each other alone to scam (if that's what they choose to do) in peace, and I have no doubt that many coin developers have such "gentlemen's agreement" (implicitly if nothing else). We don't. Get used to it.

[AzzAz]

Smooth ( and others ) : I don't remember your real life names? As you all know Evan and team are all known. So stop barking from the dark and come to the light. THEN I will listen what you have to say.

[AdamWhite]

I see its only the Trollero fans in here circle jerking each other.

Well done guys, keep up the good fight!

Fact: Over 500k coins were mined in the first hour.

Fact: Over 1.5 million coins were mined in the first day.

This poll is highlighting facts, so what can you do but make it an us versus them  scenario to fit the, "They're out to get us!" narrative that has nothing to do with facts? If you don't want to defend an instamine, then don't defend an instamine.

You guys keep repeating these things as if you expect something to happen. People know that 2 million coins were instamined over 48 hours. Personally, I'm happy that the instamine occurred. In fact, the lack of an instamine in Monero is one of the reasons that I favor Dash and don't buy more Monero. If I don't feel like I got an unfair advantage over others, I just can't get behind a project.

The criminal Dashtards were actually denying the instamine until someone made a graph image of the first 24 hours. Here's one victim of the scam:

Worst advice ever was to buy Dash. I bought some of it before I knew it had a 2million coin instamine scam, so im fucked.

[PoS]

Please stop repeating the "48 hours" story about the instamine.

That timeline is part of the ongoing Dash whitewashing, or at least lightening, effort. After all, 48 hours sounds like a period of time when quite a few people could reasonably expect to get in there and mine with everyone else, regardless of time zone, etc.

In fact, 78% of the instamine occurred within 8 hours and 92% of it occurred within 24 hours. Anyone showing up after the first three hours was already shut out of most of it.

Specifically:

Wtihin 1 hour of the ambush launch, 575.5k coins were mined.

Within 8 hours, 1.57 million coins.

Within 24 hours 1.84 million coins.

By that time, the hourly mining had dropped to the relatively insignificant 10k coins/hour, 1/20th of the average rate over the first 8 hours.

As you can see from this graph, after 9 hours, it was basically all over. If you went to bed when Evan told you go to go bed (because he "definitely" wasn't going to launch), by the time you woke up, you missed it.

The failed launch, classic.
Dont worry it will be weeks before relaunch, have a few drink's, have a good sleep i only have a hundred notes. Noone mined the first hours except the once in the know.
10k insignificant? how much you get now, 4 or something of which you stash 50%  on top of the 2 million shit pile.

THEN I will listen what you have to say.

who cares known fraud supporter, what was your name again?

[AdamWhite]

The famous quotes. Evan Scamfield in bold

Ok now it insta crashes when I type "setgenerate true".

Time to go to bed and try again next week?

Yeah, let's do that. I obviously need to do some more testing. Thanks everyone!

Best thing to do I guess. Please, confirm you won't be launching after some minutes/hours even if you fix it, and the sooner would be tomorrow, thanks.

Definitely not. I'll also follow up with this post when I do set a time.

Launch is being moved to 11PM EST!

... seriously?

What a lying piece of shit.