Akhand Bharat - United India : Should it happen ?

[legendster]

I am an avid supporter of this, though this is a pipe dream at the time being but if I ever achieve a public following and if I ever got into politics because of it; then it would be for this and only this topic / goal in mind.

I am NOT a RSS member or supporter. I believe in a free India, a secular India, a united India; rich with cultural and religious diversity.

So go ahead, and give your views regarding if this unison should happen, should not happen should have happened 60 years ago etc

Whatever is your opinion just jot in down below.


Biggest hurdles : Pakistan, Burma, Tibet (currently part of Imperial People's republic of China) and surprisingly the newly anti-india Thailand.

-Update Dec 2k15-

Please watch this video of Ex Cricketer and current Pakistani politician; Imran khan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwyCuDqv58

Mr Imran Khan talks about pesky issues that prevent any positive discussion to move forward and he briefly describes what is lacking in the leadership of both of our countries. To quote him 'A man does not become great with just his talents or qualifications, he becomes great when he has a great vision'.

I completely agree with Mr Khan's viewpoint here, he clearly says that if India and Pakistan are to move forward and have sustained peace then there needs to be a leader that has a great vision for both these countries. Obviously there will be a vested interest in keeping the things as they are currently and there will be opposition and challenges to overcome if one is to go up against the status-quo.
But to overcome these small pesky hurdles and look beyond what our countries can achieve in the future if they work together is beyond anything that anyone of us can comprehend.

He talks about open borders and letting India access Central Asia through Pakistan and that is a HUGE statement coming from a pakistani politician.

In my opinion, free trade and open borders and joint policing and administration of Kashmir would be a huge leap forward. Keep in mind Mr Khan did NOT talk about this joint administration thing its just my thought.

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[Okurkabinladin]

From outsiders perspective, it seems as India in the past 50 years expended most of its energy on staying intact and not collapsing under its own population growth, aswell as religious fundamentalism. I have hard time imagining how India would want to integrate sunni, nuclear capable Pakistan.

On the other hand, should such (unlikely) union ever happen and some sort of "area of influence) agreement is reached with China, I see no reason, why India couldnt be the superpower of tommorrow.

[legendster]

From outsiders perspective, it seems as India in the past 50 years expended most of its energy on staying intact and not collapsing under its own population growth, aswell as religious fundamentalism. I have hard time imagining how India would want to integrate sunni, nuclear capable Pakistan.

On the other hand, should such (unlikely) union ever happen and some sort of "area of influence) agreement is reached with China, I see no reason, why India couldnt be the superpower of tommorrow.

Spoken like a true outsider.

I mean why wont you 'outsiders' ever stop complaining about our population ? Trust me we might be heavily populated but not densely populated.

Second, Pakistan and most of the map you see here was once a part of India under the Britts, India has faced no problem in staying intact but it has lagged behind in the political sector as there has been no proper political unity.

Sure we had few wars with Pakistan and 1 skrimish with China but that is local territorial aggression almost inevitable in any new country's genesis.

[Gronthaing]

@legendster hard to see that happen anytime soon. Too many other problems to solve first.

@no-ice-please the us doesn't invade nuclear armed countries. They aren't that stupid. And I don't think legendster is talking about military conquest. Just hindu muslim unity.

[legendster]

From outsiders perspective, it seems as India in the past 50 years expended most of its energy on staying intact and not collapsing under its own population growth, aswell as religious fundamentalism. I have hard time imagining how India would want to integrate sunni, nuclear capable Pakistan.

On the other hand, should such (unlikely) union ever happen and some sort of "area of influence) agreement is reached with China, I see no reason, why India couldnt be the superpower of tommorrow.

Spoken like a true outsider.

I mean why wont you 'outsiders' ever stop complaining about our population ? Trust me we might be heavily populated but not densely populated.

Second, Pakistan and most of the map you see here was once a part of India under the Britts, India has faced no problem in staying intact but it has lagged behind in the political sector as there has been no proper political unity.

Sure we had few wars with Pakistan and 1 skrimish with China but that is local territorial aggression almost inevitable in any new country's genesis.

Okurka was on the money with his comment. India has some trouble enough keeping various groups in line.

But maybe you are right. The only question is then would 'greater India' still be called India? Why not call it China or Tibet or Pakistan?

In fact the U.S. has not invaded a country now in quite some time, a few years at least. We could sweep through India and all those other countries easily. Then greater India would have a lot more territory, but it would be called the United States.

The US could learn a thing or two about invading a country and winning that war from India. We did that successfully when we liberated Bangladesh from Pakistan.

As far as why it would be called India ? Because of the obvious fact that it is the Indian cultural and historical influence on these nations not the other way around. Remember all of what you see in the map was united as India under the britts. Its certainly possible to merge these.

Lastly, US 'sweeping' over India is as long shot as Guatemala having a manned space program for Pluto in the next 20 years. Not only does US lack the 'firepower' to take India down, it'd also starve to death because it is India that created the thousands of jobs in US which eventually helped you guys pull through your 08 crisis.

[legendster]

@legendster hard to see that happen anytime soon. Too many other problems to solve first.

@no-ice-please the us doesn't invade nuclear armed countries. They aren't that stupid. And I don't think legendster is talking about military conquest. Just hindu muslim unity.

Yes I am not talking about a military campaign but a peaceful political integration. However those are never peaceful.
No I am not talking about religion equality, India has never been the home to a single religion, we have been muslim / Hindu / Buddhists / jains / Sikhs etc etc through out time; it'd be naive to identify India with a single religion - a mistake which 'outsiders' make.

[legendster]

As another outsider, I see too many problems facing India to make this a reality. Many countries face common problems like India but the most pressing issues that plague India are corruption, lack of infrastructure, poverty and income inequality.

Around 80% of Indian cities flows into water systems:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/pollution/Around-80-of-sewage-in-Indian-cities-flows-into-water-systems/articleshow/18804660.cms

53% Indian households defecate in open:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/53-Indian-households-defecate-in-open-World-Bank-says-on-World-Toilet-Day/articleshow/26032829.cms

There are many improvements that are coming, albeit slowly.
Technology is greatly improving and the new rocket program are some of the recent advancements.

Sometimes I just laugh at how naive these typical western thought could be, make no mistake there are 'elements' within our country which are responsible for such misconception.

It is true that many Indians defecate in the open, but those Indians dont even have cemented homes forget about a proper toilet; but the last time I checked the nature of a person's defecation process doesnt influence his right to live in a country that is a 'world power'. There are homeless people in the US so should we say the americans who live in high rise apartments deserve anything less for the value of their money ?

The progress of a country can never be determined by measuring the earning potential of the poor, but rather gauged by the spending capital of the rich. You'd be a fool to think that there arent any rich Indians.

[erikalui]

As another outsider, I see too many problems facing India to make this a reality. Many countries face common problems like India but the most pressing issues that plague India are corruption, lack of infrastructure, poverty and income inequality.

Around 80% of Indian cities flows into water systems:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/environment/pollution/Around-80-of-sewage-in-Indian-cities-flows-into-water-systems/articleshow/18804660.cms

53% Indian households defecate in open:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/53-Indian-households-defecate-in-open-World-Bank-says-on-World-Toilet-Day/articleshow/26032829.cms

There are many improvements that are coming, albeit slowly.
Technology is greatly improving and the new rocket program are some of the recent advancements.

LOL! I dint know that only India was facing these problems. When I ask outsiders about their country, why do they keep cribbing about their country too facing poverty, crime, corruption and so on. If we check, every country does have certain minus points as compared to plus points. No country is perfect in that respect.


Regarding Akhand Bharat: I don't support this unison as each country is happy being an independent country. There would be many problems if we think about their unity and calling them just Bharat.

[panju1]

I am an avid supporter of this, though this is a pipe dream at the time being but if I ever achieve a public following and if I ever got into politics because of it; then it would be for this and only this topic / goal in mind.
So go ahead, and give your views regarding if this unison should happen, should not happen should have happened 60 years ago etc
Whatever is your opinion just jot in down below.
Biggest hurdles : Pakistan, Burma, Tibet (currently part of Imperial People's republic of China) and surprisingly the newly anti-india Thailand.

The map doesn't even show the whole of Kashmir in India.  
This is really wishful thinking. There are nationalistic sentiments in all nations. Why on earth would any nation want to be part of "Akhand Bharat". At best, some sort of Free Trade Agreement is what could be hoped for.

[legendster]

I am an avid supporter of this, though this is a pipe dream at the time being but if I ever achieve a public following and if I ever got into politics because of it; then it would be for this and only this topic / goal in mind.
So go ahead, and give your views regarding if this unison should happen, should not happen should have happened 60 years ago etc
Whatever is your opinion just jot in down below.
Biggest hurdles : Pakistan, Burma, Tibet (currently part of Imperial People's republic of China) and surprisingly the newly anti-india Thailand.

The map doesn't even show the whole of Kashmir in India.  
This is really wishful thinking. There are nationalistic sentiments in all nations. Why on earth would any nation want to be part of "Akhand Bharat". At best, some sort of Free Trade Agreement is what could be hoped for.

The whole of Kashmir is not included in the map because the map is sourced from wikipedia which respects 'international boundary disputes'.

The question is not whether Kashmir belongs to India but rather should any land ocean sea or island which was administered or influenced significantly by India in any cultural or political form in the past, consider joining forces to become what could be a global power in no time.

India could have taken Kashmir a long time ago if US didnt help Pakistan fuel the terrorism there, and if only they didnt help them become a nuclear power, a country which still has 6 hours power cut in it's capital, a large area of it unmonitored or un-administered due to Taliban rule - yes I am talking of Pakistan.

Back when India gained freedom it made Russia it's closest ally, they chose to have strong ties with Russia than the americans because India already faced Japanese aggression in WW2.
Somehow US saw this move as Anti-US which was bullshit. Too bad it took them so long to realize their mistake.

I do agree however, even before dreaming about Akhand Bharat one must conspire to reclaim the lost territory to China and Pakistan and settle that matter once & for all.

[irfan_pak10]

@legendster hard to see that happen anytime soon. Too many other problems to solve first.

@no-ice-please the us doesn't invade nuclear armed countries. They aren't that stupid. And I don't think legendster is talking about military conquest. Just hindu muslim unity.

Hindu and Muslim can never Unite, If that possible they would have join before 1947 partition, Its called Two nation theory.

Muslim Rule over the subcontinent more than 800 year, And then British came and Muslim rule was over, And British rule was started. FIRST THE Indian were Under the MUSLIM and then Under the BRITISH rule. They have no problem. Muslim has the problem because they are the ruler, and rulers are now treated as slaves.

Beginning in the 12th century, several Islamic states were established in the Indian subcontinent in the course of a gradual Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent. This process culminated in the Mughal Empire, which ruled most of India during the mid-16th to mid-19th centuries. The Islamic rule gradually declined due to dominance of Maratha rule and several other rebellions (case during entire period of mughal rule past Akbar). The eventual end of the period of Islamic rule of India is marked by the two main events Indian Rebellion of 1857 and the beginning of British rule, although Islamic rule persisted in Hyderabad State and other minor princely states until Union of India in 1948. However, most Islamic rule had started to wane in the 17th and 18th century before that.

This is the Map Showing Muslim rule.

[thebitcoinquiz.com]

Spoken like a true outsider.

I mean why wont you 'outsiders' ever stop complaining about our population ? Trust me we might be heavily populated but not densely populated.

Really? "Not densely populated"? I just Googled it out and found out that Kolkata(assuming that's where you live) has a density of 24,000people/sq.km . If that's not called densely populated then what shall it be called? All the liveable parts in India are densely populated. Delhi itself has 11,320 people/sq.km density.

Lastly, US 'sweeping' over India is as long shot as Guatemala having a manned space program for Pluto in the next 20 years. Not only does US lack the 'firepower' to take India down, it'd also starve to death because it is India that created the thousands of jobs in US which eventually helped you guys pull through your 08 crisis.

LoL. Bezti.

[legendster]

Hindu and Muslim can never Unite, If that possible they would have join before 1947 partition, Its called Two nation theory.

Muslim Rule over the subcontinent more than 800 year, And then British came and Muslim rule was over, And British rule was started. FIRST THE Indian were Under the MUSLIM and then Under the BRITISH rule. They have no problem. Muslim has the problem because they are the ruler, and rulers are now treated as slaves.

Irfan, I am going to make an insult/Joke about you and your country please dont take it seriously & be a sport.

Seriously which school did your parents sent you that your brain is so thoroughly washed - with some form of detergent - that you are actually calling a British India Map the Muslim India map ?? Please get your facts right. Please read on..


Get your hands & feet together folks I see an Indo Pak war coming.

 There is no Hindu there is no Muslim its plain and simple INDIAN.

In the ancient times people lived near the now dried up vedic Saraswati they werent Hindu, they didnt have rules, they didnt follow any other civiliztions but were expert traders.

Then we were part of the Haryanks and in a broader picture the Mahajanapads, the greatest empire of these 'Janapads' = Realm of the People ? It was the Magadh empire.

Then came the persians and the greeks, who returned back to their abodes when they were faced with the sheer logistical challenges of a military conquest in this peninsula.

Then throughout the classical age India was the land of the people whose majority were Hindu, and by majority I would say above 90%

It was during this classical time when the Mauryas rose & fell and with them spread the wings of India all across the south of Asia.
It was during this time when the age old tradition of cultivating wheat and the expanding wheat - farm lands spreading to the East and the west at an exponential rate; that the name 'Sone Ki Chirya' (The Golden Bird) was coined to India.

It wasnt until the early half 5th century, when the White Huns lead by Toramana invaded the North of Pakistan through the Afghan mountains, that Islam or any form of islam was introduced here. It was a short lived reign but converted enough Hindus to other religions like Tengri & Manichaeism, it basically opened up the possibility of conversion of Hindus to other religion which wasnt possible until now..

Much later in the 7th Century when Sindh (today's pakistan) was conquered by an invading Umayyadi Meccan army followed by the death of Muhammad. But even then this was isolated to the Northern part of the peninsula. While the rest of India was entering the late classical era, during which India and it's cultural influence spread further south east down through Sumatra and Indonesia.

The small muslim kingdoms formed during the Umayyadi crusades in the north were part of the Meccan caliphate but it's rulers were too unequipped to invade the rest of India.

Lets face it, Islam is the best religion for barbarian central asian tribes, who were among the early adopters of the religion. They could eat almost anything, they could have many wives, they got rid of the need of idols, anyone anywhere could just curl up and claim to be in a 'holy place' - which is good if you are a nomad and have no fixed place to live. Multiple wives just increases the reproduction efficiency and most importantly they could take anything from anyone because according their 'trollbook' the whole world is theirs to pillage.

AND they've been so successful at this craft of pillaging that they eventually dared to get into the heart of Delhi (Old Delhi) by the beginning of the 13th century and eventually set up the muslim rule in India by converting the general population into their own religion of Islam. But this was for 300 years not 800 The french, the Spanish the Portuguese and the Dutch started arriving by the 16th century and by the 17th Century the Britts.

In a way the britts were the first political unity this peninsula had seen in a long time.

But we shouldnt forget one fact. Religion is stupid. It is fake, it is a form of mind control, a form of herding the sheep. That sheep is the common man, every religion had one agenda and no it was not 'peace', it was the illusion of peace through fear and subjugation.

Hindu, muslim, sikh, Buddhists, Jains, Tengris (lol) all are and were ALWAYS Indians.
They just started believing in different imaginary concepts at different points in time thats all.


I get it how pathetic the common man in Pakistan today must feel that the founder of their country was nothing more than a delusional hateful old man, yes I m talking about Jinnah. Its high time my ancestral brothers stopped living in another man's delusion.

[legendster]

(assuming that's where you live)

Tell me do you still assume that I am a figment of imagination ? Or do you actually believe I am who I say I am ? I m fine with whatever the hell you believe I am but at least be straight forward about it. Where the hell do you think I am from ? The Fitzroy Crater on mars ?

And its high time that your generation started living outside the text based world of google.

I am IN Kolkata and I live in an apartment thats close to 2000 sqft big. 90% of all the people in this town have a big enough room close to this dimension.
You wanna know what population density really looks like then go visit Taiwan or Japan or Thailand. I said VISIT. That doesnt imply a google street view visit.

Thats Bezti though none intended.

[irfan_pak10]

Hindu and Muslim can never Unite, If that possible they would have join before 1947 partition, Its called Two nation theory.

Muslim Rule over the subcontinent more than 800 year, And then British came and Muslim rule was over, And British rule was started. FIRST THE Indian were Under the MUSLIM and then Under the BRITISH rule. They have no problem. Muslim has the problem because they are the ruler, and rulers are now treated as slaves.

Irfan, I am going to make an insult/Joke about you and your country please dont take it seriously & be a sport.

Seriously which school did your parents sent you that your brain is so thoroughly washed - with some form of detergent - that you are actually calling a British India Map the Muslim India map ?? Please get your facts right. Please read on..


Get your hands & feet together folks I see an Indo Pak war coming.

 There is no Hindu there is no Muslim its plain and simple INDIAN.

In the ancient times people lived near the now dried up vedic Saraswati they werent Hindu, they didnt have rules, they didnt follow any other civiliztions but were expert traders.

Then we were part of the Haryanks and in a broader picture the Mahajanapads, the greatest empire of these 'Janapads' = Realm of the People ? It was the Magadh empire.

Then came the persians and the greeks, who returned back to their abodes when they were faced with the sheer logistical challenges of a military conquest in this peninsula.

Then throughout the classical age India was the land of the people whose majority were Hindu, and by majority I would say above 90%

It was during this classical time when the Mauryas rose & fell and with them spread the wings of India all across the south of Asia.
It was during this time when the age old tradition of cultivating wheat and the expanding wheat - farm lands spreading to the East and the west at an exponential rate; that the name 'Sone Ki Chirya' (The Golden Bird) was coined to India.

It wasnt until the early half 5th century, when the White Huns lead by Toramana invaded the North of Pakistan through the Afghan mountains, that Islam or any form of islam was introduced here. It was a short lived reign but converted enough Hindus to other religions like Tengri & Manichaeism, it basically opened up the possibility of conversion of Hindus to other religion which wasnt possible until now..

Much later in the 7th Century when Sindh (today's pakistan) was conquered by an invading Umayyadi Meccan army followed by the death of Muhammad. But even then this was isolated to the Northern part of the peninsula. While the rest of India was entering the late classical era, during which India and it's cultural influence spread further south east down through Sumatra and Indonesia.

The small muslim kingdoms formed during the Umayyadi crusades in the north were part of the Meccan caliphate but it's rulers were too unequipped to invade the rest of India.

Lets face it, Islam is the best religion for barbarian central asian tribes, who were among the early adopters of the religion. They could eat almost anything, they could have many wives, they got rid of the need of idols, anyone anywhere could just curl up and claim to be in a 'holy place' - which is good if you are a nomad and have no fixed place to live. Multiple wives just increases the reproduction efficiency and most importantly they could take anything from anyone because according their 'trollbook' the whole world is theirs to pillage.

AND they've been so successful at this craft of pillaging that they eventually dared to get into the heart of Delhi (Old Delhi) by the beginning of the 13th century and eventually set up the muslim rule in India by converting the general population into their own religion of Islam. But this was for 300 years not 800 The french, the Spanish the Portuguese and the Dutch started arriving by the 16th century and by the 17th Century the Britts.

In a way the britts were the first political unity this peninsula had seen in a long time.

But we shouldnt forget one fact. Religion is stupid. It is fake, it is a form of mind control, a form of herding the sheep. That sheep is the common man, every religion had one agenda and no it was not 'peace', it was the illusion of peace through fear and subjugation.

Hindu, muslim, sikh, Buddhists, Jains, Tengris (lol) all are and were ALWAYS Indians.
They just started believing in different imaginary concepts at different points in time thats all.


I get it how pathetic the common man in Pakistan today must feel that the founder of their country was nothing more than a delusional hateful old man, yes I m talking about Jinnah. Its high time my ancestral brothers stopped living in another man's delusion.

What about Gandhi? Who is He? What you say about him?
 

[Chef Ramsay]

As most of us are here for bitcoin and the ideas of decentralization, I'd presume that that would be the same sentiment when it comes to nation-states. Regional government will be less responsive to the people than a sole national govt and world govt even worst.

[Spendulus]

...several Islamic states were established in the Indian subcontinent in the course of a gradual Muslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent. This process culminated in the Mughal Empire, which ruled most of India during the mid-16th to mid-19th centuries.....
This is the Map Showing Muslim rule....


Hey, Religion of Peace, how you doing?

[panju1]

Akhand Bharat is wishful thinking by RSS proponents in North India.
It has absolutely no support South of the Vindhyas. The RSS should first get a reality check done.

[legendster]

What about Gandhi? Who is He? What you say about him?
 

He was what he was and the world respects him. Its ok you can be proud of him too, he was after all an Indian just like you & me. But hey no human being is without flaws so why dont you go ahead and list a few for us to be entertained ?

[legendster]

As most of us are here for bitcoin and the ideas of decentralization, I'd presume that that would be the same sentiment when it comes to nation-states. Regional government will be less responsive to the people than a sole national govt and world govt even worst.

Hey there fake Ramsey,
The idea of decentralization originated from the Indus valley civ, if you do your research you would find out some tantalizing aspects of it.
The way I see it, every country on earth needs to be unified into one country, in other words there should be either no country or just one. That government wouldnt rule but it'd administrate.

The more fragmented we become in territorial terms the more tension it exerts in the world economy. Just imagine if only people in US paid taxes for development in Somalia and if the oil revenues from the Middle east was used in the development of the South American countries, then what a different world we would be living in.

I am not talking about world domination, but world collaboration.