[ANN] BitShares 2.0

[Chew Kok]

i don't know the full story of bitshares. can someone elaborate? i just know it was rebranded from protoshares right? also a question to why?

honestly they seem to have unique properties in a coin. but it seems they are targeting mainly financial applications that has to do with trading.

everyone keeps saying they are comminist type coin. can some one explain that or why it is not?

The only idiot that says its a communist coin is that NXT shill idiot DecentralisedEconomics. Apparently he does the same thing in the NXT thread.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114359/the-inevitable-failure-of-proof-of-stake-blockchains-and-why-a-new-algorithm-is-needed

Once again the Coin Herald Bugle posts an article that would be a decent parody... if these retards weren't "serious".

This is actually a perfect example of the web's "collective expertise"...
Where lowest common denominator opinion can be presented as "expert analysis"... and consumed as such.

The dude who wrote this is plays a mathematician, software engineer, cryptographer, journalist, etc on the web...
When, in reality, he is probably someone who flunked out of college, but has read a lot of BitcoinTalk...
And probably got paid maybe $10 to grind out this nonsense.

Now "collective expertise" is harmless and even useful in areas like pop culture and gossip...
But this concept also explains why, today, pretty much all anon coin projects are dismissed out-of-hand by PhD cryptographers...
Because there is no such thing as an "amateur" doctor or lawyer or physicist or cryptographer... just pretenders...
And most of the anon projects are the equivalent of a coder finding brilliant "solutions" that eluded Albert Einstein.

Shadow Coin could not even gather $1,000 together to attempt an "audit" by Isidor Zeuner (until talk of an "audit" conveniently went way)...
Notwithstanding the obvious reality that an actual cryptographer and internet security expert would not get out of bed for $1,000.

It was written by a former Nxt Organization member, Colin Lacina, whom I'm sure some people know here.  Anyway, the title and contents are pretty misleading.

Everyone knows the "NXT Organization" is a renegade group of International Communist subversives bent on the destruction of free crypto everywhere and doesn't represent the true ideology behind NXT or the Free Crypto Movement.

Thank you for your excellent opinion, because of people like you Nxt will never shine.

His own community thinks he's a joke, why would we take him serious?

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[altcoinUK]

Why not join forces with NXT and create a even better platform together instead of competing head on? Clearly nxt is leading on the 2.0 front. Why waste resources when you can work together.

Better not join NXT, all right? Bitshares' Dan Larimer seems a really decent and honest guy so better not mix him with the NXT scammers like the vaporware asset wizard jl777 (James).

[vaporware asset wizard]

Why not join forces with NXT and create a even better platform together instead of competing head on? Clearly nxt is leading on the 2.0 front. Why waste resources when you can work together.

Better not join NXT, all right? Bitshares' Dan Larimer seems a really decent and honest guy so better not mix him with the NXT scammers like the vaporware asset wizard jl777 (James).

 I categorically deny any connection with NXT or jl777

[jwinterm]

lol graphene toolkit

Couldn't have come up with a better name for something that is all hype and no substance (or I guess one atomic layer of substance that has no real world applications).

[sidhujag]

lol graphene toolkit

Couldn't have come up with a better name for something that is all hype and no substance (or I guess one atomic layer of substance that has no real world applications).

It does have real world application now

[DecentralizeEconomics]

everyone keeps saying they are comminist type coin. can some one explain that or why it is not?

By 'everyone' I guess you mean DecentralizedEconomics.  He has some irrational hatred of Bitshares for some reason, maybe because its a competitor to NXT.  Personally I find it smarter to buy both NXT and Bitshares and hedge my bets.

Bitshares is like a corporate governance system, things are controlled by shareholder vote.  Who gets to produce blocks is decided by shareholder vote, parameters of the system are decided by shareholder vote, etc.  I don't see how a corporation could be considered 'communist'.  If corporation and communism mean the same thing to you, which they apparently do to DecentralizedEconomics, then you are using different word definitions than the rest of us.

Hatred? Yes ... Irrational? No ...

Like I've said before, Corporations are fine things and acceptable in a free market economy.  Corporatism though is bad and exactly the same as Communism.  Corporatism is one or more corporations effectively controlling the economy/state through monopolistic practices.  Communism is the state controlling the economy/corporations through monopolistic practices.  There is no difference between the two.  As Chairman Stanlin's dear friend Vladimir Lenin so accurately described communism as "nothing but state capitalist monopoly made to benefit the whole people."

Now the reason this applies to Bitshares is because of the way shareholders elect delegates.  Bitshares uses the notoriously flawed approval voting system which is known to be unsuitable for contested elections.  Approval voting is unsuitable because it is susceptible to strategic voting where a very small amount of the voters can collude together to drastically affect the outcome of the election in their favor.  Effectively, this means a very small amount of shareholders control the entire Bitshares economy/blockchain through monopolistic practices.  Sound familiar?

[DecentralizeEconomics]

i don't know the full story of bitshares. can someone elaborate? i just know it was rebranded from protoshares right? also a question to why?

honestly they seem to have unique properties in a coin. but it seems they are targeting mainly financial applications that has to do with trading.

everyone keeps saying they are comminist type coin. can some one explain that or why it is not?

The only idiot that says its a communist coin is that NXT shill idiot DecentralisedEconomics. Apparently he does the same thing in the NXT thread.

His own community thinks he's a joke, why would we take him serious?

Says the NEMwit Communist.

[Chew Kok]

i don't know the full story of bitshares. can someone elaborate? i just know it was rebranded from protoshares right? also a question to why?

honestly they seem to have unique properties in a coin. but it seems they are targeting mainly financial applications that has to do with trading.

everyone keeps saying they are comminist type coin. can some one explain that or why it is not?

The only idiot that says its a communist coin is that NXT shill idiot DecentralisedEconomics. Apparently he does the same thing in the NXT thread.

His own community thinks he's a joke, why would we take him serious?

Says the NEMwit Communist.

NEM? NEM is shit! Oh... you still think I am TaunSewer? Yeah, I can see how you would get confused, especially when I called him a fucking cretin. Let me guess, I had the conversation with myself? Wow! You see conspiracies everywhere! like I said... everybody thinks you are a fuckin idiot, including your own community.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

i don't know the full story of bitshares. can someone elaborate? i just know it was rebranded from protoshares right? also a question to why?

honestly they seem to have unique properties in a coin. but it seems they are targeting mainly financial applications that has to do with trading.

everyone keeps saying they are comminist type coin. can some one explain that or why it is not?

The only idiot that says its a communist coin is that NXT shill idiot DecentralisedEconomics. Apparently he does the same thing in the NXT thread.

His own community thinks he's a joke, why would we take him serious?

Says the NEMwit Communist.

NEM? NEM is shit! Oh... you still think I am TaunSewer? Yeah, I can see how you would get confused, especially when I called him a fucking cretin. Let me guess, I had the conversation with myself? Wow! You see conspiracies everywhere! like I said... everybody thinks you are a fuckin idiot, including your own community.

Yeah UtopianFuture/TaunSew, I know you always viewed NEM as a worthless crypto that you only used to scam innocent victims.  I don't care if everybody "thinks" I'm an "idiot".  I have the official tests that prove otherwise.

[Chew Kok]

i don't know the full story of bitshares. can someone elaborate? i just know it was rebranded from protoshares right? also a question to why?

honestly they seem to have unique properties in a coin. but it seems they are targeting mainly financial applications that has to do with trading.

everyone keeps saying they are comminist type coin. can some one explain that or why it is not?

The only idiot that says its a communist coin is that NXT shill idiot DecentralisedEconomics. Apparently he does the same thing in the NXT thread.

His own community thinks he's a joke, why would we take him serious?

Says the NEMwit Communist.

NEM? NEM is shit! Oh... you still think I am TaunSewer? Yeah, I can see how you would get confused, especially when I called him a fucking cretin. Let me guess, I had the conversation with myself? Wow! You see conspiracies everywhere! like I said... everybody thinks you are a fuckin idiot, including your own community.

Yeah UtopianFuture/TaunSew, I know you always viewed NEM as a worthless crypto that you only used to scam innocent victims.  I don't care if everybody "thinks" I'm an "idiot".  I have the official tests that prove otherwise.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Official tests!

I am scratching my head a little at this.  Why would they wan tto use ripple, a fairly obscure crypto instead of one with a higher market cap such as litecoin or bitcoin?  Maybe Taun is correct and it is just a pump and dump.  If so not a bad time to put a few pennies in I guess, but its easy to get burned if you are not careful.

Ripple has been around since 2004 and if something couldn't take off after 10 years, it probably never will.  It's another MaidSafe, one of those vaporware scams which promises the moon and earth to their investors and then proceeds to live off said investors' money - very lucrative game.

In Ripple's case, if you look back years, you'ld know that they're nothing but serial liars.  Like they made the claim for the longest time of exclusive relationship with 'big banks' but it turns out they were referring to Fidor (which isn't really big big) and Fidor was actually pro-BTC, not pro-Ripple, and today Fidor does nothing with Ripple anymore and instead partnered with Kraken.

For this Australian bank thing, as much Coindesk likes to construe reality, it was probably some 2 hour tech demo to some bored middle manager who has since forgotten about the tech demo.    That doesn't matter though, as the intent is just pump and dump with articles promising the moon and earth and Ripple has been master at this since 2012.

TaunSewer/UtopianFuture calling Ripple a bunch of serial liars? This place never ceases to amaze me! Once again, one of the biggest Cretins in the madhouse throwing rocks from his glass cell. Whats more pathetic... Ripple, or you guys hoping your shitcoins will attract some institutional investor?  

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Idiot! Conspiracies... Conspiracies everywhere! Seriously DE, what kind of test was it? We are dying to know. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[altcoinUK]

Why not join forces with NXT and create a even better platform together instead of competing head on? Clearly nxt is leading on the 2.0 front. Why waste resources when you can work together.

Better not join NXT, all right? Bitshares' Dan Larimer seems a really decent and honest guy so better not mix him with the NXT scammers like the vaporware asset wizard jl777 (James).

 I categorically deny any connection with NXT or jl777

Your welcome, you got that epic nickname for free of charge. You can make crypto-history with such nick name :-)) So why not updated it to crypto history maker vaporware asset wizard?

[vaporware asset wizard]

Why not join forces with NXT and create a even better platform together instead of competing head on? Clearly nxt is leading on the 2.0 front. Why waste resources when you can work together.

Better not join NXT, all right? Bitshares' Dan Larimer seems a really decent and honest guy so better not mix him with the NXT scammers like the vaporware asset wizard jl777 (James).

 I categorically deny any connection with NXT or jl777

Your welcome, you got that epic nickname for free of charge. You can make crypto-history with such nick name :-)) So why not updated it to crypto history maker vaporware asset wizard?

Yes, I'm monetizing my nick, "vaporware asset wizard",  I'll be issuing an asset later today. Dividends will follow asap

[sidhujag]

Better to self moderate threads these days.. Trolls really have no life.

[delulo]

This stuff is starting to sound interesting enough that it might even be time to go digging around in old archives looking for those Protoshares wallets that we were all mining into long long ago that purportedly were going to give us all shares of all these new developments.

Is there some kind of import functionality in one of these new wallets whereby once we manage to find our Protoshares wallets we can tell these new wallets the filepaths to our Protoshares wallets and have them import or whatever it is that they do to get our appropriate shares?

I seem to recall though some flurry of noise/rumour some time back claiming that the developers had done some kind of ripoff or dilution or breach of agreement or something so that maybe our Protoshares are not actually worth much if anything anymore? The percentage they were supposed to be of the new chain(s) was changed or something maybe?

It was all kind of hard to follow, let alone to figure out which was trolls and which was genuine bad faith by the developers, or even whether in fact any dilution did actually occur.

Which is why it seemed best to just archive all the wallets until some future time when things became clearer and some clear path to moving forward to the newest systems emerged...

Has that time come yet?

Have Protoshares (or more correctly, the value they give in all the later chains derived from them / following them) finally become worth enough that it might be worth someone's while to look into moving forward with them into the new systems?

-MarkM-

It's pretty simple: Protoshares were meant to give you a stake in "all developements". At some point the decision was made that features that were supposed to be implemented with separate chains (Voting and colored coins and DNS mostly) are integrated into the chain of the decentralized exchange (Bitshares X for Exchange at that time). -> Renaming from Bitshares X to Bitshares. In this process AGS and Protoshares holders and the https://followmyvote.com/ team in total got an extra 20% in the new "super chain" (Bitshares). Follow my vote got 3% and AGS and PTS holders each 17/2 % (roughly; simplification because 3% went to the colored coins project which mostly anyway in turn went to PTS/AGS holders).
         The initial promise was 10% at least to PTS holders of all chains. It ended up being 50% for PTS and 50% for AGS (fundraiser coin).
          All in all PTS/AGS holders got more BTS than they had with BTSX (BitsharesX) (roughly 17% more) but did not get any stake in separate chains for DNS, colored coins and voting because they were not realized. BTSX holders were diluted 20% for the integration of DNS, colored coins and voting features into the chain that was initially only meant to do the decentralized exchange. The reason for all this was that Dan (Bytemaster) was faced with the challange of dividing his loyalty to these various projects (DNS, Vote, X etc.) which even might have competed. Another reason was increased network effect. This was solved by integration of all these features into one chain.
           This is all well documented and was discussed all in public:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10214.0
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10279.0
It was a trade of decision no ill will. The same trolls that spam this threat made it into a drama.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

What is a protoshare worth now?

If i remember right they were something like $3-$10 back before the first change. Have they increased or decreased? I honestly have no idea from all the shuffling that happen(s)ed

[StanLarimer]

What is a protoshare worth now?

If i remember right they were something like $3-$10 back before the first change. Have they increased or decreased? I honestly have no idea from all the shuffling that happen(s)ed

The value of protoshares (BitShares PTS) is always tied to the number of new chains that have promised to honor PTS holders when they launch.  It tends to rise in value as the appointed "snapshot" date approaches and drops immediately afterward when much of its value transfers from PTS to shares in the new DAC.  This sawtooth price shape is characteristic of PTS's role as a surrogate for speculating on the value of chains that have not yet been launched.

Most of PTS's past value has transferred to the chains that have already honored it: BitShares, BitShares Music and BitShares Play, etc.  Going forward, BTS holders are probably the most desirable demographic that new chains will want to "sharedrop" on.  So, while PTS is still out there as a sharedrop target with its own demographic, its value will depend on what other new chains announce an attention to honor PTS instead of or in addition to honoring BTS as its more active and desirable demographic heir.   

But past PTS holders have already received tremendous value from holding it when it matters, regardless of what happens now.

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

let me rephrase.

lets ignore that protoshares might be out there with a life of their own.

If I bought 1 single protoshare back when it was just protoshares what is that protoshare worth now? How do I calculate this.

Lets take a random time, say when the snapshop from protoshares to bitshares the first (or whatever it was called) happened, as the price.


Something like this , (these are made up numbers)
1 protoshare was worth $10 at the snap shot. Now due to merging it is worth .10

Ya following me?

[JohnnyBTCSeed]

1 protoshare should equal x bitshares, and x this chain,  and x that chain. So what value is the protoshare now?


edit (in this example after the bitshares conversion the protoshares were sold, cause if they're still out there it will fuck my example)

[StanLarimer]

Ah!  Sure.

Easiest way to figure that out is to get a BitShares wallet and import your old PTS wallet and see how many BitShares and PeerTracks NOTEs show up.  You'll need to do the same thing with the PLAY wallet.

The value of PTS is mostly in the the re-use of its wallet's keys in the wallets of coins that honored PTS with some of their tokens.  Holding PTS at those points in time gives you rights to some of those assets.

It sounds like you held your ProtoShares (PTS) through all the 2014 snapshots, so it should be good for stake in everything that honored PTS.

Then you need to sum up the value of all those various tokens at current market prices.

(I've asked the folks at bitsharestalk.org to work through your example with real numbers.)

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16873.msg216076.html#msg216076

[StanLarimer]

Snapshot Allocation Worksheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M65Gt1mFstAgTkECJfUX18f187tGzqJeXT7877qLv-M/edit?usp=sharing

Currently I think it's the following:

1 PTS =    $3.55
BTS        421.2685327
NOTE    252.9808069
PLAY        203.6097517