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Bourbon44
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July 16, 2016, 01:47:26 PM |
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Lol. Crickets... don't expect a substantive answer from Tulkas anytime soon. The Dhami Law Firm, what a joke. That answer you received is complete horseshit. It's becoming apparent that there is no Dhami Law Firm. (877) 638-8250 as provided by the BBB is not operational. And yes, no web site.
Tulkas, if this is not the case, provide us with a point of contact.
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Kanati
Member
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Activity: 93
Merit: 12
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July 16, 2016, 06:59:20 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2016, 03:02:55 PM by Kanati |
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Lol. Crickets... don't expect a substantive answer from Tulkas anytime soon. The Dhami Law Firm, what a joke. That answer you received is complete horseshit. It's becoming apparent that there is no Dhami Law Firm. (877) 638-8250 as provided by the BBB is not operational. And yes, no web site.
Tulkas, if this is not the case, provide us with a point of contact.
I guess that "substantive" is the key word here  , but Tulkas at least (sort of..) addressed the subject in his comment on this loan: Screen dump -  Not sure exactly what Tulkas means when he says "the award is digitally signed by Dhami Law", since Dhami Law Firm has NOT attached a digital signature to any of the PDF arbitration awards I (supposedly) have from them. Also, Tulkas now says that "when you buy a note the award cannot be transferred to you", but if that's the case then why on earth does Jam still offer notes for sale on defaulted loans!?! Tulkas doesn't say whether this only applies to notes bought on defaults where arbitration awards are ALREADY ISSUED, or if it also applies to notes on loans sold BEFORE arbitration(?). In either case Tulkas is contradicting what I was told earlier by BTCjam support - FEB 13, 2016 | 02:38PM PST Original message Kanati wrote: Hi Support I have a question regarding notes on defaulted loans - I noticed that the amount of funds owed to me is written on my arbitration awards, but how would I be able to document how much is owed to me if I bought a note from someone else on a loan that was already in default? Is there some way to transfer title to the arbitration award? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FEB 17, 2016 | 06:06PM PST John replied: Thank you for contacting us and sorry it took longer to reply due to yesterday’s holiday (President s day). It is to my understanding that the transactions record is a good proof to whom the loan must be paid and that the bought notes give directly that right to the transactions report to the buyer. In any case, i am happy to verify further and get back to you about it. Thank you for ebing a member of the BTCjam community! Best, BTCjam Support Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FEB 17, 2016 | 10:56PM PST Kanati replied: Hi John, thanks for your reply The transaction log only shows is that you paid for a note (the transaction record does not even indicate which one). I need a document that would stand up in court that shows exactly how much of the debt I own. Ideally I should be able to download the arbitration awards for the notes I buy on defaulted loans, and they should show beyond any reasonable doubt that title has transferred to me. Is this or something similar possible? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FEB 19, 2016 | 06:06PM PST John replied: Thanks again for contacting us. Our legal department told me that they are looking into producing some sort of document (it may be that it has also some transaction records), but nothing will be done before the end of next week. Please get back to me about it. Thanks again for being a loyal member of the BTCjam community! Best, BTCjam Support Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FEB 28, 2016 | 11:46PM PST Kanati replied: Hello John Is there any news? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MAR 08, 2016 | 01:29PM PST John replied: I have not heard any news yet. You can always send an email to support@net-arb.com for further information. Thank you so much for your interest in the BTCjam platform! Best, BTCjam Support Team Tulkas also says he has contacted Dhami Law Firm to double check our awards, but gives no explanation about why no one else can contact the the "independent" arbitration provider, or the invisible Mr. Dhami himself? I tried to call and e-mail the firm, and even sent a polite e-mail to Sukhman Dhamis private e-mail, but no response from any of them. I suppose my next attempt will be through AIRBNB ( https://www.airbnb.com/users/show/3052891) if Jam doesn't make any serious headway solving these problems soon  |
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Bourbon44
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July 17, 2016, 12:31:50 PM |
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I don't know how much you have invested in the site or if you are in the US, buy you might want to consider talking to an attorney with this:
"Our legal department told me that they are looking into producing some sort of document (it may be that it has also some transaction records), but nothing will be done before the end of next week. Please get back to me about it."
BTCJam doesnt have a legal department. They employ no in house lawyers. There is no Dhami Law Firm.
This is why they cut off US clients. So they could continue on with this bull shit, because US clients would eventually call them on it. Scammers, the fucking lot of them.
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owlcatz
Legendary
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Activity: 4186
Merit: 2030
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July 17, 2016, 12:36:55 PM |
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I really don't understand why this Tulkas scammer doesn't have more negative trust here |
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Bourbon44
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July 17, 2016, 12:50:00 PM |
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He does now.
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btiAndy
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July 17, 2016, 06:31:05 PM |
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Why do you think I am a scammer, owlcatz?
We are a platform that connects borrowers and lenders, we are not the ones taking the loans. We never stated that we are responsible or endorse any of the loans in the platform. When someone in this forum pulls a scam does it make the forum owner a scammer?
We do everything in our power to prevent and we also try to recover defaulted loans. We offer arbitration awards free of charge (we pay the arbitration firm to issue them), we call the borrowers before the loan goes into the platform and we also contact late ones.
We don't answer questions on the forums because there are many forums out there and they do not offer proper tools to manage all the messages. We do have a support email and answer all the messages we receive in a timely manner.
Are you a scammer when someone pulls a scam...yeah sometimes it does Tulkas. Look at the thread history and give me an an answer to the situation posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112447.msg15100653#msg15100653and give me an answer. |
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btiAndy
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July 17, 2016, 06:35:51 PM |
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Why do you think I am a scammer, owlcatz?
We are a platform that connects borrowers and lenders, we are not the ones taking the loans. We never stated that we are responsible or endorse any of the loans in the platform. When someone in this forum pulls a scam does it make the forum owner a scammer?
We do everything in our power to prevent and we also try to recover defaulted loans. We offer arbitration awards free of charge (we pay the arbitration firm to issue them), we call the borrowers before the loan goes into the platform and we also contact late ones.
We don't answer questions on the forums because there are many forums out there and they do not offer proper tools to manage all the messages. We do have a support email and answer all the messages we receive in a timely manner.
Are you a scammer when someone pulls a scam...yeah sometimes it does Tulkas. Look at the thread history and give me an an answer to the situation posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112447.msg15100653#msg15100653and give me an answer. Specifically Tulkas: BTCJam should have returned the investment of the suspended loan applicant and returned it in-full to the investors. Instead, you have allowed monthly "payments" to be made from the never-distributed principal still on account and allowed the investment to continue to trade on BTCJam as if the user is paying back the loan on a regular basis. You are taking investors money and allowing Notes to be traded on the value of an eventually useless loan... what happens when the principal can no longer cover the payments and all goes silent? This is a what I would call a scam. A lot of other people do as well. |
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PT92
Member
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Activity: 107
Merit: 10
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July 17, 2016, 08:39:58 PM |
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I've got plenty of US-runners as well. I'm wanting to enforce the arbitration on some of them, however this Dhami Law scum decided to remove their website (I believe they had a (crappy) one before the agreement with BTC-jam). Are these arbitration awards valid? If not, is there some way we can force BTC-jam?
Receiving zero response on the support mails..
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cynical_observer
Newbie
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Activity: 6
Merit: 0
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July 18, 2016, 03:39:11 PM |
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Kanati,
Regarding enforcemyarbitration we advise you not to work with them, they are using our user database without authorization (they got it from NET-ARB from when we used their service) and working with net-arb to enforce the loans, this is a violation of arbitration laws (the arbitror cannot work with the lawyer that is enforcing the award).
I'm verifying with Dhami what this authentication means. They are a separate arbitration firm and we are not allowed to interfere with the process since the loans are made inside our platform (arbitration needs come from an uninvolved third party).
Best,
Tulkas is talking out of his a** again. I have researched this. There is no connection between enforcemyarbitration and net-arb. However net-arb "cooperates" with enforcemyarbitration to validate awards while btcjam, tulkas, and the invisible mr. dhami all turn a blind eye to trying to help us get our money back. There is nothing illegal about net-arb's cooperation - in fact, it would be illegal for a legitimate arbitration firm not to cooperate. Face facts - btcjam does not want to help you because it hurts their bottom line. |
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PT92
Member
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Activity: 107
Merit: 10
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July 18, 2016, 06:11:49 PM |
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Is there anything we can do against BTCjam non-responding and not figuring this thing out with Dhami Law firm. Can we undertake legal action for misleading their customers and providing them with useless awards?
"More information about the arbitration process and the enforcement of arbitration awards can be found at: Dhami Law Firm."
Right, thank you BTCjam for providing us with NOTHING, zero support form their side as this probably jeopardizes their business model.
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btiAndy
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July 18, 2016, 06:26:32 PM
Last edit: July 18, 2016, 06:39:49 PM by btiAndy |
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Is there anything we can do against BTCjam non-responding and not figuring this thing out with Dhami Law firm. Can we undertake legal action for misleading their customers and providing them with useless awards?
"More information about the arbitration process and the enforcement of arbitration awards can be found at: Dhami Law Firm."
Right, thank you BTCjam for providing us with NOTHING, zero support form their side as this probably jeopardizes their business model.
We can only take action when specific cases of fraud can be uncovered that BTCJam has committed...if we could get some feedback and discussion started on my last post here for example there might be a way to discover more examples which might then lead to a compelling case to present to appropriate oversight authorities in California. BTCJam customer support you can forget, the Dhami law firm is also a joke...sadly many of us ignored the warning signs a long time back which is why we all sit here stupidly now. Lastly...kill BTCJam off for good...stop investing there. Get your money out and do not put anymore in. Do not re-invest. |
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PT92
Member
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Activity: 107
Merit: 10
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July 18, 2016, 07:57:04 PM |
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Is there anything we can do against BTCjam non-responding and not figuring this thing out with Dhami Law firm. Can we undertake legal action for misleading their customers and providing them with useless awards?
"More information about the arbitration process and the enforcement of arbitration awards can be found at: Dhami Law Firm."
Right, thank you BTCjam for providing us with NOTHING, zero support form their side as this probably jeopardizes their business model.
We can only take action when specific cases of fraud can be uncovered that BTCJam has committed...if we could get some feedback and discussion started on my last post here for example there might be a way to discover more examples which might then lead to a compelling case to present to appropriate oversight authorities in California. BTCJam customer support you can forget, the Dhami law firm is also a joke...sadly many of us ignored the warning signs a long time back which is why we all sit here stupidly now. Lastly...kill BTCJam off for good...stop investing there. Get your money out and do not put anymore in. Do not re-invest. I'm not investing a single penny in that worthless platform since they shut of the US, and making them mass default. I have about 5 BTC payable and over 8 to receive (which I am obviously not receiving). I'm gonna pay my loans, but it sucks monkeyballs being honest and getting raped by all the defaults and standing on the sideline without being able to do anything. :/ |
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PT92
Member
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Activity: 107
Merit: 10
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July 18, 2016, 08:37:04 PM |
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Will wait another week to see if BTCjam replies, otherwise I will. Will also look if there is a decent San Francisco based lawyer that can figure this out as there must be some we can undertake against fraudulent companies that hide behind fake arbitration. |
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btiAndy
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July 18, 2016, 11:00:23 PM |
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Will wait another week to see if BTCjam replies, otherwise I will. Will also look if there is a decent San Francisco based lawyer that can figure this out as there must be some we can undertake against fraudulent companies that hide behind fake arbitration. Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted. |
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PT92
Member
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Activity: 107
Merit: 10
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July 19, 2016, 08:24:59 AM |
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Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted. I'm done with writing my thesis next month and have plenty of time to spent on figuring this class action suit format. Guess we should gather a lot of people that are involved, any suggestions to do it under BTCjam's radar? |
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Kanati
Member
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Activity: 93
Merit: 12
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July 19, 2016, 09:38:45 AM |
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Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted. I'm done with writing my thesis next month and have plenty of time to spent on figuring this class action suit format. Guess we should gather a lot of people that are involved, any suggestions to do it under BTCjam's radar? If you want privacy then I suggest creating a free account doing it here - https://unseen.isIf you decide to create an account there, then I suggest creating it with your bitcointalk username. I already made a screened Unseen chat group earlier called "Bitcoin Peer to Peer Investors Forum" which could be used, or you could create a new group of your own if you prefer. Anyone with an Unseen account who wants to join my group can send me a personal message here and request access. Either way I would also be interested in pursuing this legally. |
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Kanati
Member
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Activity: 93
Merit: 12
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July 19, 2016, 01:35:14 PM |
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Kanati,
Regarding enforcemyarbitration we advise you not to work with them, they are using our user database without authorization (they got it from NET-ARB from when we used their service) and working with net-arb to enforce the loans, this is a violation of arbitration laws (the arbitror cannot work with the lawyer that is enforcing the award).
I'm verifying with Dhami what this authentication means. They are a separate arbitration firm and we are not allowed to interfere with the process since the loans are made inside our platform (arbitration needs come from an uninvolved third party).
Best,
Tulkas, I have no knowledge or opinion about your database dispute, and to be frank I don't see how it addresses any of the points I raised earlier - Whether our coins are 100% lost or not remains to be seen - the only way you lose for sure is to quit trying. In any case our probability of recovery would increase if BTCjam provided us with AUTHENTICATED arbitration awards. This is also the VERY LEAST they could do considering how they've otherwise stacked the rules against us investors - Jam collects their fees up front when investors finance the loan, which means they have no actual alignment with investor interests if the loan is not repaid. Jam does not post statistics about the percentage of borrower defaults on their website, which is a huge risk disclosure omission for any prospective investor ( https://btcjam.com/stats). Jam suddenly changed the rules by announcing they no longer will issue loans to American borrowers. This of course is causing a wave of defaults on existing American loans, since it removes incentive for these borrowers to repay if they no longer have a future on the platform. So far no help or compensation for investors who got screwed when BTCjam decided to pull the carpet out from under them. Jam suddenly dumped* net-arb.com as their independent arbitration provider, ostensibly "to protect members from spam". The new provider, Dhami Law Firm, has no functioning website, telephone, or e-mail, leaving investors no way to independently confirm the validity of Dhami Law Firm or the arbitration awards issued by them. *Net-arb is still listed as Jams arbitration provider under bullet 5 of https://btcjam.com/terms-of-use Jam is still not providing arbitration awards on defaulted loans for investors who bought notes. Jam even threatens investors against getting help with collecting delinquent loans!.. Quote "As a reminder, BTCjam’s Terms of Use prohibit your from posting, uploading, publishing, displaying, transmitting, sharing, storing or otherwise making or attempting to make publicly available any personally identifiable information of a borrower. Accordingly, the content of this arbitration award may not be shared via any blog, forum, medium or other communication of any kind." Basically anyone who sends or shares an arbitration award with other investors, a lawyer, or a collection service is in violation of Jams' terms of service Huh( Potential investors should stay away from BTCjam until they up their game (a lot!). Current investors need to light a fire under BTCjams a** and make them move on these problems. Solutions to the above problems would be appreciated, since my support cases on these topics (Case #: 128701 & 142221) seem to have been sucked into a black hole Investors would not need Mr. Palleys services if BTCjam provided other means for recovering our coins, but until you decide BTCjam debt collection is mature enough to graduate from the experimental stage, and you establish a clear consistent debt collection policy that investors can understand, then Mr. Palley is only resource we have. When or if that ever happens is out of my control. Right now I am dealing with a massive number of defaults (for example more than 72% defaults on BRL loans from before I turned off AutoInvest...) and the "independent" Dhami Law Firm arbitration awards of questionable authenticity. They are certainly not looking credible since Dhami Law firm removed their website ( http://www.dhamilaw.com/) and does not answer phone calls or e-mails  Update - BTCjam is unsure about what actually constitutes a valid digital signature. I attempted to steer them in the right direction with my last comment on this loan: https://btcjam.com/listings/51749-2nd-loan-for-s7-minersHere is a screendump of the comment, in case it's not visible at BTCjam |
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isvicre
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July 19, 2016, 02:56:39 PM |
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Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted. I'm done with writing my thesis next month and have plenty of time to spent on figuring this class action suit format. Guess we should gather a lot of people that are involved, any suggestions to do it under BTCjam's radar? I'm pretty sure you could do anything and it would fly under their radar. I could imagine btcjam is staffed by about 4 people with multiple jobs and one of those people has only one job, withdraw profit. It's a company designed to operate for a limited time, hoover up bitcoin and then slowly fade away when a real competitor arises. If anyone has any interest in pursuing btcjam for arbitration awards or creating an alternate platform you can pm me. I've lost between 3 and 5btc myself. |
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PT92
Member
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Activity: 107
Merit: 10
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July 19, 2016, 06:07:04 PM |
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@Kanati atleast Tulkas is sort of responding (opposing to the customer, which has gone on full ignore it seems). Shouldn't take long to double check it with Dhami Law, a matter of one phone call to them (opposed to us, "for more information contact Dhami Law" <- HOW?!).
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