[ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending

[Shermo]

I didn't actually see that there was a second listing created. To be honest that makes sense instead of one giant listing.

I assume the second listing is going to be extended a couple of times too?

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[Smoovious]

Any special treatment you bestow on one, you MUST bestow on ALL, or you lose credibility.

I asked for an extention of my deadline only, and didn't even receive an acknowledgement.
No other changes to the terms on mine were even being asked for.

Yet, this one that I have seen in the list for pretty much the entire time mine was in, gets halved, goes active without meeting the minimum of the loan people signed up for, none of the lenders had any opportunity to even be notified, MUCH LESS CONSENT to the change in terms, WITH THEIR MONEY.

UNACCEPTABLE.

You're going to have to do better than this. No special favors for anybody, or everyone gets the same perks. That's the deal, if you want to be taken seriously as an independent crowdfunding intermediary.

-- Smoov

[Tulkas]

Any special treatment you bestow on one, you MUST bestow on ALL, or you lose credibility.

I asked for an extention of my deadline only, and didn't even receive an acknowledgement.
No other changes to the terms on mine were even being asked for.

Yet, this one that I have seen in the list for pretty much the entire time mine was in, gets halved, goes active without meeting the minimum of the loan people signed up for, none of the lenders had any opportunity to even be notified, MUCH LESS CONSENT to the change in terms, WITH THEIR MONEY.

UNACCEPTABLE.

You're going to have to do better than this. No special favors for anybody, or everyone gets the same perks. That's the deal, if you want to be taken seriously as an independent crowdfunding intermediary.

-- Smoov

Smoov, it was really a matter of size and time of request, the listing was unusually higher than others and the people from ZIGGAP contacted me way before the expiration date, so we had time to arrange things.

About consent the lenders were notified both here and at the listing page about the modification and we gave the option to anyone withdraw the investment.

As we are a new service the size of the loans and time limits will be adjusted a little over time, but I really agree with you that we cannot change current listings, we will do our best to detect and avoid this problems in the future.

[boonies4u]

I think changing withdraw address and initiating a withdraw should require some kind of confirmation of identity. Perhaps a separate pin or password. Given that you could log in using facebook, I think it'd be a good idea.

[ffcitatos]

I will repost here updated site-wide statistics:

loans: 228
total payments: 964
payments late: 215
fully repaid loans: 105

We have a repayment rate of 77.69%.
The majority of unpaid loans are from anonymous borrowers.

I wonder what is meant by the repayment rate? Is it (coins paid back)/(coins borrowed) or 1-(defaulted loans)/(loans funded) ?
If it is the former, I think the ratio will go down quite a bit, as a big default ( https://btcjam.com/listings/516 ) has just happened

Also, what I have noticed is that ratings do not necessarily correlate with repayment. Look e.g. at https://btcjam.com/listings/401 or
https://btcjam.com/listings/377 that are freshly defaulted loans by people who had almost everything verified. I think that at this point
it is obvious that some kind of debt collection option is a necessary condition for btcjam to exist as a mainstream thing.

[Tulkas]

I will repost here updated site-wide statistics:

loans: 228
total payments: 964
payments late: 215
fully repaid loans: 105

We have a repayment rate of 77.69%.
The majority of unpaid loans are from anonymous borrowers.

I wonder what is meant by the repayment rate? Is it (coins paid back)/(coins borrowed) or 1-(defaulted loans)/(loans funded) ?
If it is the former, I think the ratio will go down quite a bit, as a big default ( https://btcjam.com/listings/516 ) has just happened

Also, what I have noticed is that ratings do not necessarily correlate with repayment. Look e.g. at https://btcjam.com/listings/401 or
https://btcjam.com/listings/377 that are freshly defaulted loans by people who had almost everything verified. I think that at this point
it is obvious that some kind of debt collection option is a necessary condition for btcjam to exist as a mainstream thing.

About the "big default" one day delay at the weekend is hardly a default.

The purpose of the verification process was explained several times on this thread.

[ffcitatos]

About the "big default" one day delay at the weekend is hardly a default.

The purpose of the verification process was explained several times on this thread.

This does not answer any of my comments. However, that is fine and I sincerely hope that the debt collection thing is getting closer.

I still wonder what is meant by the repayment rate. Could you please comment on it, I don't think you have defined it earlier. Thanks!

[Tulkas]

About the "big default" one day delay at the weekend is hardly a default.

The purpose of the verification process was explained several times on this thread.

This does not answer any of my comments. However, that is fine and I sincerely hope that the debt collection thing is getting closer.

I still wonder what is meant by the repayment rate. Could you please comment on it, I don't think you have defined it earlier. Thanks!

Its true, the definition used was:  1 - late_payments/total_payments

[Smoovious]

I do have a question about how deleted listings are handled... for example, my original loan request I deleted and made a new one when the time was about to expire...

I had left a message on it, which I wanted people to see... so when people get the email notification, is there still a page for them to bring up with the comments on it after I deleted the listing from the browse listings list? So they can see the comment I left on it before I closed it?

And if the page itself does indeed get deleted, maybe either changing the behavior to just close the listing, but keep the page available to be looked up somehow... this could be useful if we need to close a listing and replace it with a new one with changed terms, for example.

I don't remember the old listing # or I'd try looking it up myself.

Lemme know?

-- Smoov

[Rassah]

What does your lawyer say about making lender information publicly available on the borrowing request sites, or even letting the borrowers post that information themselves, and only have you confirm it?

[hardcore-fs]

From a security perspective:

1. You NEED to either lock down or DEMAND a password for the  "payout address" OR have some sort of secondary popup window to validate a change.

[hardcore-fs]

This looks pretty good, in what countries are you able to do credit checks for?

EDIT: It would also be cool if you could borrow the equivalent amount for some currency (say USD) and pay back the equivalent amount in BTC to avoid exchange rate risk.

Today we do a "soft" credit check , so it won't show on your record, its not automated and its basically a documental process. The "hard" credit check is underway (with Experian) i will update this thread with the progress.

Yes, the money equivalency is coming too, its more of a legal than a technical problem now, we have a law firm handling this, news soon..

I think that you can get some "free" analysis, by checking if the user has a verified PayPal account... if it is good enough for paypal then that is going to weed a large % of scammers out of people needing checks.

[Shermo]

Looks like this guy has done a runner:
https://btcjam.com/listings/377

Whats the process when someone defaults on a loan?

[Rassah]

Doesn't relying solely on credit checks for real world reputation/profiles limits you to lending only to those who have credit scores? (I.e. very few countries)

[Shermo]

I will ask again... what is the process when someone defaults on a loan?

[gweedo]

I will ask again... what is the process when someone defaults on a loan?

Read the thread before asking questions, they just remove the score and set it to 0 and they could be labeled a scammer here. Also btcjam is exploring other legal options, they have talked about this many times over. So short answer don't pick loans that will default, research is key.

I am not part of btcjam in any shape, I just know how to read a thread.

[Shermo]

I've read the thread thanks, I just wanted to know if BTCJam attempt to contact the person? After all they apparently have their phone number, facebook, linkedin, and home address details. That's quite a few avenues to try to say "hey, you do realise you owe people money right?"

Also the person in question has repaid a loan of the same size so it wasn't as scammy as other listings
https://btcjam.com/listings/377

[gweedo]

I've read the thread thanks, I just wanted to know if BTCJam attempt to contact the person? After all they apparently have their phone number, facebook, linkedin, and home address details. That's quite a few avenues to try to say "hey, you do realise you owe people money right?"

Also the person in question has repaid a loan of the same size so it wasn't as scammy as other listings
https://btcjam.com/listings/377

Ok lets be real, is a phone call going to make you pay a loan? Chances are very slim unless you completely forgot but even then I just take maters into my own hand and pm the person here. But you shouldn't be asking that question if you read the thread, and pick good loans to invest in.

I am getting annoyed by all the people that are like "I invested in a loan and they never paid", some of you even rallied against pirate, but you dont read the terms of the loans you invest in, A) you either play follower the leader or B) you see a high score and you invest. This completely wrong in how you should go about doing this type of loaning. And You shouldn't whine when your coins are gone, it will teach you the research and knowledge takes time but pays off big. So I think this thread should be for updates from tulkas and technical issues, not whining about your lost coins it was your fault deal with it.

[creativex]

Are you advocating personal responsibility? How very retro.

[gweedo]

Are you advocating personal responsibility? How very retro.

Yes I am, and I know everyone wants a trophy if they win or lose.