Wardrick account hacked---trust abuse resolution in sight (finally)

[tspacepilot]

So, where do we go from here.

I have an issue with tomatocage for adding a known trust-abuser (three separate neg-reps on my account, none of them valid, all alts of the same person) to his trust list.

He says that he's worried about people losing "real money" but it's not clear that quickseller is helping any more than he's hurting.  See his history of adding neg-rep to worhipper for merely refusing to use his services, see his false accusation of ndnhc (and the potential that he's the one who planted the "evidence"---that whole scandal).

At this point, several people have spoken up in this thread saying that QS should drop his attack on me.  Basically everyone who looks into this agrees that what's going on here is some kind of personal vendetta from QS against me.  I've gotte several more messages from people to that effect, supporting me, in my PMs but those people have explicitly asked me not to bring them up in this thread for fear of repercussions from QS.  If you ask me, they have a point, I certainly wish I could make this nonsense attacker leave me alone.

Furthermore, there's the very strange behavior of TC in this situation.  Only 2 days before QS was readded to TCs list, he made a public threat against me.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1125296.msg11903743#msg11903743

You are lying again. You were falsely accused of nothing. You are a scammer and a troll. As I said in the beginning of this post, it is offensive that you have been allowed to troll for as long as you have. If results are not seen immediately, then further action will be taken to ensue that you are prevented from further trolling and from further spamming.

Your slander is worthless 

It seems almost too much to believe, but this threat, along with the fact that QS recently sold a default trust account, along with the fact that TC had me PM blocked before I even said anything to him makes me wonder if TC was the account which was sold and/or if QS has control of this account.

Given the unexpected taciturn behavior from TC regarding this, and the conspiracy of events surrouding it, I think it would be really great if TC could sign a message from his staked bitcoin address to prove that he's still the same guy who was kindly convincing QS to let go of this nonsense a few months ago.  Once he signs this message, I hope he'll address my questions above to him?  Will he stand by QS's slander of me and other innocent people?  Will he reach out to QS in reason to get him to drop his false charges as he did before?  If not, why not?

Beyond that, people, I ask you, what can I do?

I don't want QS to persecute me forever.  I have never done him any wrong other than calling out his bad-attitude and confrontational style.  I have never had any business with him and almost assuredly never will.  He has no trust-spammed me with three alt accounts and makes threats at me.  Surely something can/should be done.

QS, will you drop this fight?  To be completely honest, your reputation will actually improve greatly if you can show people that you're willing to admit when you're wrong and walk away from personal vendettas.  What on earth do you want from me?

QS, TC, mods, please reply.  This situation has gone on long enough, let's fix this problem and move on with our lives please!

[Twipple]

Count me in the same boat. Really don't know what to do next. It sucks when you know you are not a scammer , and show him every proof of it but he disregards it all making weird impossible theories.

[XinXan]

Count me in the same boat. Really don't know what to do next. It sucks when you know you are not a scammer , and show him every proof of it but he disregards it all making weird impossible theories.

Although quickseller is the only one to give you negative trust rating, you can see that you have also 2 neutral but bad ratings from highly trusted people so maybe quickseller is not so wrong after all?

Tomatocage did not add a trust-abuser because quickseller is not one, he would have negative ratings by now if he really was one

[Twipple]

Count me in the same boat. Really don't know what to do next. It sucks when you know you are not a scammer , and show him every proof of it but he disregards it all making weird impossible theories.

Although quickseller is the only one to give you negative trust rating, you can see that you have also 2 neutral but bad ratings from highly trusted people so maybe quickseller is not so wrong after all?

Tomatocage did not add a trust-abuser because quickseller is not one, he would have negative ratings by now if he really was one

You should read carefully before posting to increase your post count. One of them is just saying that its a bought account which I have always said. The other one is a different issue which I have already proven to be false and is not a scam accusation.

[tspacepilot]

Count me in the same boat. Really don't know what to do next. It sucks when you know you are not a scammer , and show him every proof of it but he disregards it all making weird impossible theories.

Although quickseller is the only one to give you negative trust rating, you can see that you have also 2 neutral but bad ratings from highly trusted people so maybe quickseller is not so wrong after all?

Tomatocage did not add a trust-abuser because quickseller is not one, he would have negative ratings by now if he really was one

This kind of comment is a little bit like standing around while someone is being shoved into a police car and shouting out "the police aren't abusers, if they were they would have been stopped by now".  It's all well and good that you shout your ideas from the sidelines, but you're not the one under attack (at the moment) and you don't know anything about the facts of the case (apprantely).  In point of fact, QS has trust-spammed me (using sockpuppets to add extra negative ratings), this is on its face trust-abuse (and this kind of behavior has been called such by quickseller himself).  And he has received many negative ratings, but the hegemony of the default trust regime means those aren't seen very often or considereed.

QS is trying to climb a power-ladder.  The issue is that he's as volitile as a bag of dynamite.  If you're looking out for your own interests you're quite right to do nothing but praise him as criticising him is likely to get you in the same trouble with him that I'm in.

Here's another, more important question: if quickseller isn't a trust abuser, why isn't he explaining himself in this thread?  All he has done is pop in and make a joke about offering money to someone who could convince him.  This mockery isn't helpful and it does nothing to resolve the conflict.  If you look at what TC wrote, he is all but admitting that QS is wrong in my case but sems me as some kind of colateral damage which is outweighed by some kind of perceived god that QS can do.  But again, how is it right that QS is allowed to damage and burn his way to the top and the innocents that he hurts are just some kind of collateral damage?

Why won't TC answer my questions?   Why did he pre-emptively block PMs from me?  How is this related to QS's personal threat on me?

Why won't QS right this wrong?  How many people are afraid to speak up after seeing what's happening to me?

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I don't think you're going to win this one tspacepilot, I just don't know what to suggest. I feel sorry for you. I know you're not a scammer but I don't think QS is going to remove that negative trust. Is there anything you could do to ask him to remove it? What was the supposed amount you scammed (I know you didn't) , maybe paying that amount to where it was supposed to have come from is the only way he might help you? Failing that getting on your knees & begging could be the only option

[tspacepilot]

I appreciate your reply, LFC_Bitcoin.  I'm going to offer some in-line replies:

I don't think you're going to win this one tspacepilot, I just don't know what to suggest. I feel sorry for you.

I honestly think that QS got into this mess with me thinking he would squish me immediately and that I'd disappear or go make a new account or something.  I don't think he expected me to hang in here and keep on questioning (in public) what he's done to me and what he continues to do.  I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that we're going to see a tradefortress style fall-from-grace and then QS's false ratings will be just as quaint as the one from TF that I have.

I know you're not a scammer but I don't think QS is going to remove that negative trust. Is there anything you could do to ask him to remove it?

I have asked, in a lot of ways it's the main point of this thread to try to find out what QS wants done in order to resolve this.  At the very least I think he should address the fact that he has trust-spammed with 3 accounts.  This is against forum rules, as far as I know.

What was the supposed amount you scammed (I know you didn't) ,

Actually, nobody knows.  This was one of the main sticking points two years ago.  Tradefortress was saying that I scammed him for all kinds of exorbitant amounts, amounts I didn't even have to my name.  I could never get him to nail down how he was coming up with these numbers and each time we talked, his demands changed.  I think his current demand on my account (by current, I mean the one he seemed to have settled on is like .5BTC, but this amount is outlandish.  If I do owe him anything for mistakes with my bot experiment, it's on the order of kSat, not BTC.  But he won't talk to me about this, so we walked away (years ago).  QS picked up this nonsense and started attacking me with it in March of this year.

maybe paying that amount to where it was supposed to have come from is the only way he might help you? Failing that getting on your knees & begging could be the only option

I guess I would beg if that would improve things.  But I really think it's important to make public the kind of damage that QS is doing. I'm not the only one he's done this to.  His volitility combined with his ambition can be very dangerous.  Only recently he threatened me with some kind of "measures" which would be taken against me.  I have to wonder if the current TC/QS situation is a part of those measures and I have to wonder how many accounts he's controlling at the moment.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I'm at a loss mate, I wish I could help. You helped me a few times with advice on techie stuff in other threads. I've enjoyed interacting with you since we enrolled in the Da Dice campaign & still do. I just have to wish you good luck with it all. I'm a nobody on here, QS wouldn't listen to me any way but for whatever little it's worth, I trust you fully.

[tspacepilot]

I'm at a loss mate, I wish I could help. You helped me a few times with advice on techie stuff in other threads. I've enjoyed interacting with you since we enrolled in the Da Dice campaign & still do. I just have to wish you good luck with it all. I'm a nobody on here, QS wouldn't listen to me any way but for whatever little it's worth, I trust you fully.

I appreciate the kind words, and I hope that QS doesn't exact revenge on you for speaking up in here.  I've been contacted by several others who weren't so brave.

In theory, if you want to express your trust for me, you should add me to your trust list.  However, I don't really have much of a trust list to speak of myself---I'm not active in this trust-wrangling game that goes on here, so you wouldn't actually get any information by inheriting my trust network.  Anyway, I guess it would show a small vote of confidence.  But the kind words are probably more meaningful.

I'm also at a loss.  TF's accusations against me are nonsense, and were shown to be such over history.  QS latched onto this and I think it's just making him look worse and worse---I'm quite surprised that someone as notable as TC is willing to vouch for his behavior.  Too bad that TC and QS seem to be ignoring this thread at the moment.  TC's only comment was to the effect that I'm probably being burnt here but "sorry", there was some greater good to be served.  And QS's only reply in here was a mockery about paying someone to convince him that I'm "innocent".

Meanwhile, trust is unregulated so other big-wigs will most likely just stay out of this and do nothing.  Alas, the default-trust regime.  The best thing that could happen would be for everyone to remove default trust from their trust lists and start building their own networks.  Then we wouldn't have these trust-wranglers trying to work their way into power via scorched-earth strategies and self-promotional tactics.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I'm at a loss mate, I wish I could help. You helped me a few times with advice on techie stuff in other threads. I've enjoyed interacting with you since we enrolled in the Da Dice campaign & still do. I just have to wish you good luck with it all. I'm a nobody on here, QS wouldn't listen to me any way but for whatever little it's worth, I trust you fully.

I appreciate the kind words, and I hope that QS doesn't exact revenge on you for speaking up in here.  I've been contacted by several others who weren't so brave.

I'm not worried about that. I don't trade, I don't offer any kind of business or service so there's not a lot he could say. Anything he said would make him lose credibility.  There is nothing bad or untrustworthy about me. I'm a good guy.

QS does do a lot of great work protecting people on this forum but in your case I think he's wrong.

I've just looked in from afar & seen your pain. I just hope it all works out soon.

[shorena]

I'm at a loss mate, I wish I could help. You helped me a few times with advice on techie stuff in other threads. I've enjoyed interacting with you since we enrolled in the Da Dice campaign & still do. I just have to wish you good luck with it all. I'm a nobody on here, QS wouldn't listen to me any way but for whatever little it's worth, I trust you fully.

I appreciate the kind words, and I hope that QS doesn't exact revenge on you for speaking up in here.  I've been contacted by several others who weren't so brave.

I'm not worried about that. I don't trade, I don't offer any kind of business or service so there's not a lot he could say. Anything he said would make him lose credibility.  There is nothing bad or untrustworthy about me. I'm a good guy.

QS does do a lot of great work protecting people on this forum but in your case I think he's wrong.

I've just looked in from afar & seen your pain. I just hope it all works out soon.

As I have said what feels like a long time ago, I dont think this should still be an issue. Yet it is. Im not entirely sure what Quicksellers motivation is and in fact I dont need to know. I know QS is very strict regarding the removal of trust. The idea that an account can be washed clean and thus a scammer can get away with a scam is something QS is against strongly. I mostly agree, yet still think that anyone should be given a chance to redeem themself. On top of that I remember to have read the thread that "proves" tspacepilots scam and I came to the conclusion that it does not deserve a negative feedback[1].

I also stated and I still think this is true that the rating by QS is fine and that they should stay on DefaultTrust.

Its seems though that neither of you two (QS & tsp) can just let this be and get on with your lives. Is it that you tspacepilot are hindered by the rating in any way or is this an ego/honor thing?

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg11167058#msg11167058

[tspacepilot]

Its seems though that neither of you two (QS & tsp) can just let this be and get on with your lives. Is it that you tspacepilot are hindered by the rating in any way or is this an ego/honor thing?

I would love to let it go and move on, last time QS was on TC's list, TC kindly convinced QS to change one of his ratings against me to neutral rather than negative.  I changed my (only) rating against him to neutral rather than negative as a guesture of good-will (noting that his rating is seen much more widely than mine and has much more impact).  I think this demonstrates the fact that I am willing to bury the hatchet and move on.

However, shortly after TC removed QS, he changed his ratings back to negatives and then added a new negative with yet another alt.  I thought it was only fair for me to change my one rating on him back to negative.

Then TC has readded QS just in the middle of a signature-advertising campaign so my account get's a red "WARNING" flag for those who use default trust and while the campaign manager was understanding that I wasn't at fault in any way, they didn't want to continue to rent my signature space as long as I had the WARNING.  So, in this way, the rating hinders me.  Very muchly so.

I hope that TC or QS can take the time to respond to what you and I and LFC_Bitcoin have written.   Almost everyone who has commented in this thread has said that they think that QS should remove his rating or change it to a neutral.   I add that he also ought to delete his sock-puppet ratings from his alts, as trust-spam is supossed to be against the rules.  Overall, I would like nothing more than to see the end of this. I feel like I've been under attack for no reason for the last approx 4 months.  However, as long as the slanderous ratings stand and are considered "default trust" ratings, then I really have no choice but to keep drawing attention to them and asking why.  One of the really strange issues to me at the moment is how taciturn tomatocage is regarding this---in contrast to last time when he added QS and was able to convince him to let the issue go for the greater good.

[tspacepilot]

I believe threads which are intended to draw attention are allowed to do one daily bump, mods if this isn't true, please let me know.

I'm bumping this because every respected member who has looked over this situation is calling for QS to remove his negative trust on me.  Tomatocage seems to be suggesting that I'm sort or collateral damage which shouldn't happen but he's "trusting" QS for some greater good.  I require QS to address these concerns:

1) Everyone around you who you respect is asking you drop these false charges against me.  Why not do so and move on, it will only help your reputation to learn to admit that you can be wrong.
2) Leaving multiple trust ratings from alts is considered trust spam.  Please consolidate your trust ratings from your alts.  You have currently left me negative trust with three separate accounts (note the only other negative I've received has been from tradefortress, who's lies you're currently echoing).

I guess what I want to ask the wider world is also this:

Have you guys noticed how all the dudes jockying for power echo each other's trust ratings like it's a job?  They see that Vod (formerly) or Tomatocage leaves a negative trust then they drop in an echo.  How is this helpful to the community as a whole?  I see how it's helpful for the individuals---they can leave boastful posts saying I've neg-repped N scammers, but really they're not knowing anything about the situation, they're just echoing what others have found out in order to make themselves look good.

Then there's the self-promotion, because this forum often acts like an echo-chamber, we have QS shouting out about how good he is at catching scammers, but what scammers has he actually caught?  I've seen him be wrong many times (me, ndnhc, worhipper_-_, possibly Twister, idk) and I've never seen him back down once he's been shown wrong.  But weekly he posts about how when he's not on default trust, scammers are getting away with it.  But what evidence is that this is actually true?   It works like a rumor mill, he posts 1000 times a day, 10% of those posts are self-promotional, he leaves a million negative reps a day, most (all?) of them echos of what others have said or figured out, and then people start believing it.  Tomatocage: you say you "trust" quickseller (despite the many times that he's obviously been wrong and depsite his intransigence and inability to admit mistakes and his fiery temper and vengeful attitude and his abuse of the trust system (by trust-spamming using alts)) because "he's good at catching scammers".   Can you give us some evidence of this?

Quickseller: can you please leave me alone so I can stop having to defend myself against you?   Please listen to reason and the voices of your peers, everyone on here is asking you to drop this fight.  Ignoring the fact that you are wrong here is making you look bad.

Others on default trust: if TC and QS refuse to engage, I think it's time to ask you to weigh the evidence and consider putting ~Quickseller onto your trust lists until this can be resolved.  It's completely unjust to have a guy with a scorched-earth policy who's been shown to be falsely accusing people more than once and who acts in such an immature and vengeful manner on default trust.  Many people are scared to speak up against him just because of the power he now has and they don't want to end up like me with alts appearning every month to troll them and with false charged painted on their accounts.  At the very least, if TC and QS will not continue the discussion in this thread, please speak up here if you're on default trust to discuss why you will or will not add ~Quickseller to your trust list.

[DiamondCardz]

Have you guys noticed how all the dudes jockying for power echo each other's trust ratings like it's a job?

Mmm. I don't believe you can apply this logic to people who are already on depth 2 or 1 of DefaultTrust (we're on DefaultTrust to do things like that), but with people who aren't on DefaultTrust you definitely see that a lot. I wouldn't put it as "jockeying for power", but more trying to get on DefaultTrust.

But meh, the event in question for the negative trust happened 2 years ago. I see the reasoning for the negative trust but after that long it probably should just be let go. It wasn't *scamming* per se either like how EAL didn't *scam* Stunna by (allegedly) abusing the PrimeDice giveaway, just shady.

This whole thread in general from all main participants is ridiculous though. How the hell have you guys let this go on so long? Try an alternate route rather than all trying to scorched-earth (yes, your favourite phrase tspacepilot, but you do it as well) your way to the top by destroying each other's rep.

[tspacepilot]

Have you guys noticed how all the dudes jockying for power echo each other's trust ratings like it's a job?

Mmm. I don't believe you can apply this logic to people who are already on depth 2 or 1 of DefaultTrust (we're on DefaultTrust to do things like that

to echo each other robotically?  How is that a good thing?  Doesn't this make default trust network into some kind of thoughtless monolith?  I have to admit, I don't understand what you meant by this parenthetical.

), but with people who aren't on DefaultTrust you definitely see that a lot. I wouldn't put it as "jockeying for power", but more trying to get on DefaultTrust.

But meh, the event in question for the negative trust happened 2 years ago.

Closer to 3 years, actually, but anyway,

I see the reasoning for the negative trust but after that long it probably should just be let go. It wasn't *scamming* per se either like how EAL didn't *scam* Stunna by (allegedly) abusing the PrimeDice giveaway, just shady.

This is exactly what I'd expect you to say to tradefortress, were he around and listenging to reason "hey, tspacepilot and you seem to have had some misunderstanding, maybe it's time to let it go".  However, tradefortress isn't even involved here.  What's going on is that QS is using tf's false accusations to try to smear me.  QS has no knowledge of the original situation and shouldn't be prentending to.  What's happening is that he's taking the word of a known scammer and using alts to trust-spam me with it.  It really should be making him look very bad.  I'm quite surprised that anyone with such an MO would be added to a default trust list.

This whole thread in general from all main participants is ridiculous though. How the hell have you guys let this go on so long? Try an alternate route rather than all trying to scorched-earth (yes, your favourite phrase tspacepilot, but you do it as well) your way to the top by destroying each other's rep.

I appreciate your sentiment, DC.  The only thing I'd like to add is that while it may seem like I'm also doing some sort of "scorched-earth", my motivation here is merely defensive.  Yes, I've been fighting back against QS for months now.  But crucially, I'm not jockying for power (or trying to get on default trust).  I'm just trying to defend myself against an unwarranted smear campaign.  When I say that QS is trying to do a scorched-earth strategy on his march to the top I'm referring to his quick-temper, his intransigence and unwillingness to admit he's been wrong.  He neg-reps and walks away.  Then makes mocking posts saying he'll offer money to anyone who can convince him he's wrong.   While I am indeed fighting back against QS's attacks on me, I'm not doing any scorched-earth strategy because I'm not going around picking fights and neg-repping people.  I basically spend my time on here chatting about the technical details of bitcoin, trying to help newbies (especially with linux-related topics) and learning a lot (I invite you to look through my post history of the last 3 years for evidence of this).  I don't trade and I don't scam and I don't fight with people (unless they are attempting to smear me, in which case, yes, I *do* fight back).

I think that QS really, honestely expected to be able to steamroll me off the forum (or at least into creating another account, or purchasing a new account---maybe from him?!).  That seems to be what happened to the other people he's attacked.  But I'm not going to give him that satisfaction.  I haven't done anything wrong and I'm not going to let a bully force me off here.  QS has cost me time and money but I'm going to keep on defending myself until he leaves me alone.

You say to try an alternate route, but what alternate route is there for me?  Guy has left me 3 neg-reps using 3 accounts and was only recently making direct threats against me.  What else can I do but call him out in meta for this behavior and ask him to stop?  The real surprising thing to me in this situation is TC's silence.  Last time he brought QS onboard he made an effort to fix this (and it was fixed, for a while).  Why would he pre-emptively PM-block me?  I find it very weird.

Anyway, QS/TC, yet another respected community member is calling for you to fix this.  Please listen to reason!

[tspacepilot]

QS and TC are still not responding.

I'm considering locking this thead and breaking it out into separate threads for the separate issues at play here:

1) TC is responsible for the actions of the people on his trust list.  If he trusts someone who is abusing others, then he is abusing others.  He says above that my gripe is with Quickseller, not with him.  However, as long as he's vouching for Quickseller's actions, I think it's only fair to ask that he engage in a discussion with me.  Given that last time he put QS on his trust list he was very very open and helpful and this time he's got me PM blocked before I even tried to write to him, I consider this to be very fishy.  Given that QS was recently selling a default trust account and that he threatened me openly just two days before being readded to TC's list, I think this is extra fishy.  I don't want to put on a tinfoil hat yet, but think it's only fair to ask that TC respond to trust abuse that's happening in his name.

2) QS is trust spamming.  He has attacked me with three separate accounts.  Even if his gripe against me is valid, he should consolidate his negative ratings under one account.

3) QS is trust abusing.  His gripe with me is clearly personal and puntive and has absolutely nothing to do with the safety of this forum.  He needs to come up with some kind of evidence that I did something wrong sometime if he wants to leave negative trust.  Leaving negative trust for personal reasons unrelated to anything is abusive.

Mods, should I lock this thread and make these three separate threads in an effort to better separate the issues at play and try to get some response?

As someone recently said to me in a PM, dealing with QS is next-to-impossible, he either comes up with a valid reply to something you say or else he ignore you completely and goes off-topic.  Literally his only reply to this thread was to openly mock me saying that he would pay BTC to anyone who could convince him to leave me alone.  Clearly he's enjoying the fact that (1) he's currently on default trust and he doesn't want attention drawn to all this abusive stuff he does so he's ignoring this thread (2) he's celebrating the fact that he's hurting me by being allowed to stay on default trust and keep his false and abusive ratings against me active (last time he was here he was forced to modify them to neutrals).


Edit: Given that (again) no one is responding, I have gone ahead and split this thread out into three separate threads for the separate issues:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142352.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142353.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142354.new#new

Please comment on these issues in these threads, depending on your topic. This topic is now locked.

[tspacepilot]

It turns out that BadBear does not want me to have separate threads for the three separate issues.  Therefore, I have posted below the content of the OPs of the three issues.  I hope that people responding can make it clear which of these issues they want to talk about and we'll try to manage this thread as some sort of 3 in 1.


Topic I (tomtatocage MIA):

Hi everyone (especially tomatocage),

I'm starting this thread because the previous thread on it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1129059.msg12042510#msg12042510) had other issues tied up in it and TC seems to be refusing to engage with it.  To that end, I'm breaking out TC's part of the issues into a separate thread so that it can be discussed separately.  It's my hope that in doing this, TC will decide to go ahead and engage with the problem to get it solved.

Here's the quick summary:

A few months ago, TC added Quickseller to his trust list.  As I think many people know, QS is waging a personal war on me and wants to see me smeared off the forum.  Therefore at the time that TC added QS, I politely asked TC to talk to QS about he problematic ratings.  TC quickly and politely replied and within 24 hours, QS had changed his false ratings to neutral, allowing everyone to get on with their lives happily.

Next thing you know, QS made several more false ratings, accusing people of doing things they hadn't done and generally making a hash of his newfound responsibilities (as had happened before with him, when he was on badbear's list).  So, TC removed him.  Okay, no problem for me, whatever.

But now that QS was no longer beholden to the truce TC had brokered, he changed his ratings back to negatives and even made a new account and started neg-repping me with that one too.  Still not really a problem because QS was not on the default list.

Now, just 2 or 3 weeks ago, TC re-added QS to his trust list, and so QS's false ratings were once again unfairly plaguing my reputation.

So, naturally, I reached out to TC to ask him to reimplement his conditions on QS.  These are TC's own words to QS on the matter as he shared with me in our first correspondence session when he originally added QS (emphasis mine):

At some point in the past I decided that I, and all the people I have in my Trust list, should leave ratings that are as impartial as possible with a strong lean toward giving the benefit of the doubt to a user (ie. sofia26, but that's another story all together).

So why did TC's policy change in this regard?  Only he can say.  But here's where the fishiness really begins:

It turns out that TC had me PM blocked before I had even said anything to him. So I wasn't even able to ask him privately to broker the peace he had done before.  Instead, I had to make a public thread about it (linked above).  After many days, he finally popped into that thread a single time and merely stated this:

I re-added QS to my list because he's good at weeding out the scammers. While I realize that there may be some ruffled feathers because of this, I feel that it's better to prevent people from losing potentially a lot of real money than it is to have a handful of people upset about it. In the end though, your grievance is with QS, not with me.

He has not said anything further.   This new policy of "if someone I trust has abused you, your problem is with them not with me" is a far-cry from what he'd said in the past "I and all the people in my trust list should leave ratings which are as impartial as possible".  So again, what has changed?

The further fishiness is this, and this is quite speculative, but given that TC seems intent on not communicating with me regarding the trust-abuser that he trusts, I think there's really no choice but to bring it up.  QS was recently selling an account on default trust.  I have no idea what account it was nor do I have any idea if it actually sold, but he was posting about it publically as funfunnyfan (it's one of the accounts he's used to trust spam me so you can find the record of it in my trust list).  Interestingly, only 2 days before being readded to TC's list and TC pm-blocking me, QS made this threat:

Indeed, once I had been the victim of a quickseller smear attack I started reading those meta threads saying quickseller was falsely accusing them with a new view.

You are lying again. You were falsely accused of nothing. You are a scammer and a troll. As I said in the beginning of this post, it is offensive that you have been allowed to troll for as long as you have. If results are not seen immediately, then further action will be taken to ensue that you are prevented from further trolling and from further spamming.

Your slander is worthless 

He literatlly says that "if results are not seen immediately then further action will be taken".  What does this mean?  Is this referring to him adding himself to the default trust list because he controls the TC account?  I certainly hope not.  Yet, because TC will not talk to me and has apparantely changed his policy from one of "everyone I trust needs to be impartial" to "your gripe is with QS, not with me" and preemptively refuses to engage with this discussion, we have to ask.

Again, the point of this thread is to solicit that TC engage with this issue.  If he trusts a trust-abuser, that's quite literally on him and his reputation.  The idea that people are getting hurt by this and they are merely collateral damage because someone else with "real money" might get hurt if QS isn't on default is problematic at best.  Furthermore, the idea that you can merely ignore these sorts of problems and hope that they go away by themselves is doubly problematic, in my opinion.  It may be that QS will continue to slash-and-burn his way through this forum and that the next false accusation will somehow make someone notice that he really does not belong on any kind of default list until he can let go of childish personal attack campaigns against people that he's never traded with just because he doesn't like them, but in the mean time, the idea that TC doesn't take responsibility for people on his trust list really reflects poorly on him, in my opinion.

To be clear, I've had almost zero interaction with TC other than our brief exchange a few months ago in which he correctly forced QS to take responsibility for his actions before being added to default trust.  The idea that QS is now on the list under TC's auspices and no longer adhering to his policy means that TC is vouching for these false ratings.  Therefore I'm doing what I think is the correct move, I'm opening a thread in meta to ask TC to discuss these ratings that he's currently vouching for.

TC, please speak up and join this discussion so that we can get this sorted out.  It's been nearly 6 months now since QS started his slander campaign and I know I'm quite tired of dealing with it.  I hope you'll step up and take responsibilty if you're going to vouch for this kind of behavior.

I hope that Tomatocage will respond soon to this topic I.


Topic II (Quickseller Trust spam/sockpuppetry):

As far as I know, using sockpuppets to leave multiple negative trusts is not only frowned upon, it's against the rules and in the past users have been banned for it.  See here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1000239.60

While 3 negative ratings from three separate accounts may not be as bad as what some users do, it's quite outlandish that someone on default trust should be behaving this way.

For the record, I currently have 4 negative ratings.  1 from Tradefortress nearly 3 years ago.  TF's rating is a false accusation and his reptuation speaks for itself.  3 from Quickseller and his alts echoing the lies of TF.

Quickseller needs to consolidate his negative ratings into one account or he risks being banned, as far as I can tell.  These accounts all belong to Quickseller and they have all left me negative trust.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=358020
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=357263
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=519804

Topic III (Quickseller leaving false ratings based on known lies):

As has been discussed previously (but not conclusively), QS has left me a negative rating which is based on zero evidence, is clearly punitive and meant to smear me off the forum.   This topic is being started in order to discuss the merits of QS's false rating separately from the other issues which complicated this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1129059.40 (the previous one).

A quick recap for those who aren't in the know:

1) Early in this year, I called out Quickseller for his temper.  I told him that he shouldn't be calling people idiots and that there are more helpful ways to disagree.
2) QS responded by calling me and idiot.
3) QS further responded by logging in as an alt and beginning to troll me.  He told me that he'd be having me kicked off my signature ad campaign and made other threats.
4) QS spent 24 hours looking through years of posts in order to try to find something against me.
5) QS found tradefortress' false accusations on me and necro-bumped a 2.5 year old thread to threaten me using his main alt ACCTSeller
6) QS logged back in with his main account, and "found" the bump from ACCTSeller, and used it as an excuse to neg rep me.
7) QS's plan backfired, temporarily, the signature ad campaign continued to employ me because they could see that what was happening was someone trying to troll me; QS's vitriolic temper became well known; not long after he was kicked off of badbear's trust list
Cool QS continued to troll me for months
...

And that basically brings us to where we are today.  Now QS has been readded to default trust and his rating are again causing me issues.  I have no desire here except to be left along and it blows my mind that someone who has publically acted in such a way as QS could be added to a default trust list.  How can you trust someone who takes such extreme measures to exact vengence on someone just because you don't like that hey called you hot-tempered?

At this point, basically everyone who has weighed in on this issue says that they find it extremely hard to believe that such nonsense could go on for so many months and yet, here we are.  I'm pretty convinced that when QS started his smear campaign against me he just thought that I would roll over and die, or perhaps purchase a new account (from him?!) and try to get back to hero member status in a few years.  That he could steamroll me off of the forum.  However, I'm not going to let that happen.  Instead, I'm publically calling attention to this behavoir and asking what we can do.

I think it's going to be next to impossible to get QS to remove his false ratings at this point.  I'd love to find out that I'm wrong, but the last thing that QS has said to me was basically mocking me and everyone else.  He said that he'd be paying 0.1BTC to the first person who could convince him to leave me alone.  So, what to do now?

I have opened another thread in which I solicit TC to reconsider his trust of QS, or else to at least talk to me about it.  But that is purposely in another thread so that here we can discuss trust abuse by QS against me and what do about it.  I'd like to further add that at this point, a number of poeple have spoken to me about this privately (mods can verify this) but asked not to be revealed because of the attack power of QS.  People are afraid to cross him.  Is that the kind of person who should be on default trust?

There is at least one other obvious solution, other people on default trust can remove QS from their trust lists in order to fix this.  I honestly have no idea about the internal politics of this.  Is it seen as a slight against Tomatocage if, say, badbear adds ~Quickseller to his trust list?  I don't know.

I also don't know what to do about this issue.  I think a lot of people are afraid to speak up and those that are speaking up are asking QS to drop this assault.  I wish he would.  I look forward to your input.

On this last topic III, there is a minor update which is that I have written a personal message to Quickseller to try to see if we can talk in private in order to come to some agreement over this.  I have to admit that I am not extremely optimistic that this will work, but I think it's worth a try.  Literally everyone on here is tired of hearing about this issue (I think) and perhaps even Quickseller is ready to admit that I'm not a threat to anyone.  If he and I can work something out privately, it may be that Topic III will soon be resolved.

[GamingOn]

He has also done this to me refer to signature.

[BitcoinEXpress]

He has also done this to me refer to signature.

Your signature is inaccurate!


~BCX~

[TECSHARE]

It turns out that BadBear does not want me to have separate threads for the three separate issues.  Therefore, I have posted below the content of the OPs of the three issues.  I hope that people responding can make it clear which of these issues they want to talk about and we'll try to manage this thread as some sort of 3 in 1.

Of course. They control the default trust system, allow it to be abused left and right, protect their clique, and throw everyone else to the fire so they can maintain the image of legitimacy. When I was dealing with VODs abusive ratings I received several threats of a permaban from Badbear claiming I was off topic, some times in my own OPs even. Yet anyone arguing against me off topic was allowed to go on for page after page after page, regardless of it being reported. They protect freedom of speech here, that is until you question them or if it makes their pals look bad. In that case you'd better STFU and fall in line or else suddenly you will find yourself breaking rules you didn't even know existed, and all their lackeys vying for a position in the default trust list will line up to take pot shots at you to earn brown nose points, or to protect their existing privileged position in default trust.

If you ask others to speak on your behalf, then suddenly you are accused of "shilling" or using sock puppets. It is an organically formed coordinated effort to protect their position of control based on self interest. They have a direct monetary incentive to do so, because people seek to trade with those on the default trust more because if they rate you it will raise the trust they have visible by default. If you are new making a complaint, you are just a sock puppet or a scammer and dismissed. If you have a reputation, then they have something to take from you. Either way they still control the situation to their own benefit via selective enforcement of all these unwritten, unofficial rules that change depending on who it is being enforced upon.

There is little concern for the individual here unless it serves some higher use to them. If you are rocking the boat to get some right wronged, you are more likely to get the hammer than help unless it serves them. Your situation with Quickseller appears to me to be a very similar scenario, and no one of much note will speak in your defense for fear of retribution from Quickseller or the staff.