[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation

[hazek]

Its not a complicated structure to understand and you can create your own foundation to help further Bitcoin.

Will Gavin leave your Foudation and join mine?

Hell, I'll leave this foundation and join yours if I like it 

I hate to keep having to point this out but its NOT MY foundation.

Your statement should say "Will Gavin leave the current Foudation and a newer one that I helped put together?"

I other words it's up to him. I think it's not wrong to assume it would only ever happen if it benefited either you or him, not Bitcoin per se. So much for "I can start a new foundation.."

[boonies4u]

Its not a complicated structure to understand and you can create your own foundation to help further Bitcoin.

Will Gavin leave your Foudation and join mine?

Hell, I'll leave this foundation and join yours if I like it 

I hate to keep having to point this out but its NOT MY foundation.

Your statement should say "Will Gavin leave the current Foudation and a newer one that I helped put together?"

I other words it's up to him. I think it's not wrong to assume it would only ever happen if it benefited either you or him, not Bitcoin per se. So much for "I can start a new foundation.."

You could go start up a different foundation whose purpose to support bitcoin and the developers of alternate clients.

[hazek]

People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded. Please stop it.

[boonies4u]

People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded. Please stop it.

You must be leaving an impression.

[Atlas]

People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded. Please stop it.

You must be leaving an impression.

Yes, they have the impression they are the parents and everyone else is a child that shouldn't be so rebellious. We should all conform to their standards and "democracy".

[hazek]

We cant gain power, in fact we cannot do anything outside the bylaws.

What exactly is excluded by your bylaws then anyway, especially since they are written so open ended:

ARTICLE II - PURPOSES

Section 2.1 Purposes: The Corporation is an association of persons having a common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote that common business interest and to engage in any lawful activity permitted under section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code, or the corresponding section of any future federal tax code. More specifically, the purposes of the Corporation include, but are not limited to, promotion, protection, and standardization of distributed-digital currency and transactions systems including the Bitcoin system as well as similar and related technologies.

The way I read this you can do whatever you want as long as you follow the current or future US laws which basically can be anything. How is that a limitation in any way shape or form?

Will I get a reply to this Charlie?

[boonies4u]

People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded. Please stop it.

You must be leaving an impression.

Yes, they have the impression they are the parents and everyone else is a child that shouldn't be so rebellious. We should all conform to their standards and "democracy".

Democracy? Where?

[Comodore]

People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded. Please stop it.

You must be leaving an impression.

Yes, they have the impression they are the parents and everyone else is a child that shouldn't be so rebellious. We should all conform to their standards and "democracy".

Hopefuly, Whatever is being happened - We fortunately have realy competent and great people in foundation.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

People keep replying to me as if I'm 5 years old or mentally retarded. Please stop it.

You must be leaving an impression.

Yes, they have the impression they are the parents and everyone else is a child that shouldn't be so rebellious. We should all conform to their standards and "democracy".

Matt,

Stop assuming everyone against you is part of the foundation, because they are not.

People are allowed to have opinions without being personally attacked by you

No one asked you to conform to anything, you can do as you please.

-Charlie

We cant gain power, in fact we cannot do anything outside the bylaws.

What exactly is excluded by your bylaws then anyway, especially since they are written so open ended:

ARTICLE II - PURPOSES

Section 2.1 Purposes: The Corporation is an association of persons having a common business interest, the purpose of which is to promote that common business interest and to engage in any lawful activity permitted under section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code, or the corresponding section of any future federal tax code. More specifically, the purposes of the Corporation include, but are not limited to, promotion, protection, and standardization of distributed-digital currency and transactions systems including the Bitcoin system as well as similar and related technologies.

The way I read this you can do whatever you want as long as you follow the current or future US laws which basically can be anything. How is that a limitation in any way shape or form?

Will I get a reply to this Charlie?

Yes if you can wait more than 10 minutes  

If you dont want people treating you like a child, allow us some time to respond.

I was responding to you when you said (or someone said) "Foundation will yield Bitcoin power"
My response was pointing out that in fact the foundation has no power whatsoever and cannot yield any.

Your bylaws reference is speaking of something totally different, corporate law, that states that the foundation can sell t-shirts but not illegal firearms..nothing to do with promoting Bitcoin

-Charlie

[evoorhees]

"Warning - while you were reading 193 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post."

LOL

For the record, I LOVE that the Foundation exists now. I think this is a huge positive step for Bitcoin. Few negatives, plenty of positives. I also understand the concern many people feel - we should always be diligent and skeptical of anyone trying to be "the face" of Bitcoin. But in this case specifically, and to the extent this Foundation can act in certain manners for certain goals, I think it's a very legitimate development and I'll be joining as a paying member here soon.

I must wonder if you'd be saying the same if Charlie wasn't a board member. Not that I think you're trying to be manipulative, it's just hard to believe you are looking at this objectively and aren't highly biased.

Please, don't be absurd.    If Charlie was doing something I disagreed with, he would know, and I'd have no problem discussing it on the forum. It happens that Charlie and I tend to agree on almost everything, especially after some discussion... though he's still slightly too statist for my taste, though this is changing fairly quickly, because Charlie is a smart guy

I've long been in favor of a more formal, more structured Foundation type organization to foster Bitcoin growth. I worry that people do not understand the difference between voluntary, market-based order and coercive order. They think the Foundation is the latter, when it's not.

A decentralized system can (and indeed, ought to) have certain "nodes" of organization and structure. It is the same dynamic which occurs with the bitcoin exchanges. The system is decentralized, yes, but it needs points of centralization (again, this is market-based centralization) to carry out specific functions such as bringing many buyers and sellers together to trade in the case of exchanges. Those who think exchanges shouldn't exist, and Bitcoin should only be traded among P2P systems, are not thinking clearly, and don't understand how markets operate. And just as one exchange may hold "influence" on the market, it cannot control it. The same is true with the Foundation.

Do not fear private, voluntary organization among intelligent, productive people. Avoiding, or condemning, such organization is antithetical to Bitcoin progress. All the best Bitcoin successes will be brought about not by perfectly decentralized, independent action of individuals, but by the voluntary cooperation and structure each individual builds with others. The Foundation is just another example of this, and I'm excited to see the progress this structure will bring.

[hazek]

Your bylaws reference is speaking of something totally different, corporate law, that states that the foundation can sell t-shirts but not illegal firearms..nothing to do with promoting Bitcoin

-Charlie

But you said you are limited by them. Could be so kind to point out the section of the bylaws that limits you to what the Foundation can do?

[finkleshnorts]

I don't exactly understand the dissent. I'm still neutral here but it seems to me like the dev team totally deserves to ask for funding in this way. It worked for Linux, right? Look at Linux now, it's universal and amazing. And still true to the principles of open source technology.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the Foundation is trying to accomplish, and maybe I don't understand what the Linux Foundation did.

I agree with the sentiment that at this point the bitcoin experiment cannot be inherently anti-government if it is to succeed in the end. I suppose it is anti-fiat money by nature, but I think governments can and will evolve. There is no denying that bitcoin is a better alternative to an endless supply of special paper.

[niko]

I think Linux is a great "role model" for Bitcoin

Linux is not about money though. And money destroys friendships. 

Excellent point. I hope board members take it to heart.
Other than that, I welcome the foundation and look forward to their positive contributions.

[Atlas]

I don't exactly understand the dissent. I'm still neutral here but it seems to me like the dev team totally deserves to ask for funding in this way. It worked for Linux, right? Look at Linux now, it's universal and amazing. And still true to the principles of open source technology.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the Foundation is trying to accomplish, and maybe I don't understand what the Linux Foundation did.

I agree with the sentiment that at this point the bitcoin experiment cannot be inherently anti-government if it is to succeed in the end. I suppose it is anti-fiat money by nature, but I think governments can and will evolve. There is no denying that bitcoin is a better alternative to an endless supply of special paper.

Linux isn't money.

[misterbigg]

I agree with the sentiment that at this point the bitcoin experiment cannot be inherently anti-government if it is to succeed in the end.

Bitcoin is inherently anti-government since it takes away power from those who would live at the expense of others.

[Atlas]

All I really want is this foundation to be an advisory board with just mere opinions that people can easily leave.

If this organization has no teeth through regulation or control of the protocol, I'll be fine with it. From what I am hearing though, power is desired.

[finkleshnorts]

bitcoin as a protocol would be useless without decentralization. But bitcoin as an experiment, as a project in development, as a revolution must have some sort of central organization. Otherwise, chaos. Like Erik said, market-based centralization. free market != chaos.

[ElectricMucus]

Altas did you sleep yet? You are repeating your points... and while I got you to admit that currently (or pre foundation) the situation was worse than it is to become with this foundation since until now Gavin had (almost) sole power over the official source code.
Why are you still at it? Call it a day it should be better for your (and our) mental health.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

All I really want is this foundation to be an advisory board with just mere opinions that people can easily leave.

If this organization has no teeth through regulation or control of the protocol, I'll be fine with it. From what I am hearing though, power is desired.

Matt,

This is exactly what the organization is.

This is not what your 'hearing', this is what your 'claiming' on the forums on your own

-Charlie

Your bylaws reference is speaking of something totally different, corporate law, that states that the foundation can sell t-shirts but not illegal firearms..nothing to do with promoting Bitcoin

-Charlie

But you said you are limited by them. Could be so kind to point out the section of the bylaws that limits you to what the Foundation can do?

You tell me, what can the foundation do thats not already obvious? We have no control over Bitcoin, Bitcoin runs itself.

[Atlas]

I agree with the sentiment that at this point the bitcoin experiment cannot be inherently anti-government if it is to succeed in the end.

Bitcoin is inherently anti-government since it takes away power from those who would live at the expense of others.

Exactly and this board could easily one day neuter Bitcoin from being a free currency to a fiat, government-controlled one by making standards for the protocol that everyone would be forced to abide by through corporate and social influence.