[ANN] Bitcoin Foundation

[Melbustus]

If we are ever going to be accepted by the mainstream establishment, we need to conform with the regulations governing it. It is time Bitcoin grew up and started playing by the rules.

In the meantime, we will be making sure the long-arm of government can reach our Bitcoin donations and donations everywhere. For tax and legal purposes. We need to cooperate with authorities if we are going anywhere. Bitcoin will have to be a complementary currency to what is already legitimately out there.

The Bitcoin Foundation: Bringing Social Responsibility and Governance to Bitcoin

Sponsored by The Federal Reserve Bank

You realize that it's precisely the nature of bitcoin as an undertaking with no owning body that makes self-organized bodies such as the Bitcoin Foundation inevitable, right? No one has the ability to prevent it. People are free to form whatever businesses and structures they want.

Why aren't you forming your own? There seem to be a few highly-vocal people in this thread that agree with you. Several organizations operating side-by-side, all with the goal of supporting bitcoin (whatever that means to the particular org), would be a good thing indeed.

[hazek]

Why aren't you forming your own?

Because mine would be a laughing stock compared to a Bitcoin Foundation with the lead dev on it's board of directors together with the two biggest Bitcoin businesses. And I don't like to be a laughing stock, that's why.

[BitBlitz]

If you're looking for certification applicable to payments or transfers, the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards (PCI DSS) is a better example than FDIC. PCI DSS requires certain security measures to be in place (firewalls, data retention timelines, encryption requirements, which credentials can be stored, etc) for certification.  A similar set of guidelines for Bitcoin businesses would be great. (Instead of "The code for the exchange worked! Go production now!  I don't care if the admin password is hard coded and unencrypted wallet backups are stored all over the servers.." approach we see now.)

[niko]

Also, this forum does not work as a honeypot. One can use PROXY or TOR to access it.

All known proxies and tor exit nodes r banned on this forum.

Only for new registrations. After you register you can use Tor all you like.

Right, after you are pinpointed then you are free to be anonymous. lol

Right, and for good reasons.

[becoin]

Who said certification would restrict innovation?

I said that and I know what I'm talking about. Certification, especially in business, is always about defending the status quo, respective profit structure, and beneficiaries.

[niko]

Who said certification would restrict innovation?

I said that and I know what I'm talking about. Certification, especially in business, is always about defending the status quo, respective profit structure, and beneficiaries.

When I am planning to buy a product, certifications and transparency are certainly an important factor. In fact, whenever possible (farmers' market, for example), I try to "certify" by myself by visiting the facilities. When this is not possible, I check certification trail. Also, certification "authorities" can disappoint me and lose my trust. I don't see the problem.

[Melbustus]

Why aren't you forming your own?

Because mine would be a laughing stock compared to a Bitcoin Foundation with the lead dev on it's board of directors together with the two biggest Bitcoin businesses. And I don't like to be a laughing stock, that's why.

That's a terrible reason. It's also tantamount to stating that Gavin and Bitinstant *are* bitcoin, which, I think, is exactly the opposite of your viewpoint.

As I noted, these orgs are inevitable, and there's room for more than one. You could get a pool operator or two on board, maybe the devs of one of the alternative clients, other bitcoin businesses... No, you couldn't build something as prominent as TBF immediately, but if you were serious about it, you could build something else respectable that indeed have some sway, and serve to keep TBF "honest", if that's your intent.

[kjj]

Why aren't you forming your own?

Because mine would be a laughing stock compared to a Bitcoin Foundation with the lead dev on it's board of directors together with the two biggest Bitcoin businesses. And I don't like to be a laughing stock, that's why.

That's a terrible reason. It's also tantamount to stating that Gavin and Bitinstant *are* bitcoin, which, I think, is exactly the opposite of your viewpoint.

As I noted, these orgs are inevitable, and there's room for more than one. You could get a pool operator or two on board, maybe the devs of one of the alternative clients, other bitcoin businesses... No, you couldn't build something as prominent as TBF immediately, but if you were serious about it, you could build something else respectable that indeed have some sway, and serve to keep TBF "honest", if that's your intent.

Personally, I'd wait a few months, see if there is something that TBF isn't doing well, or doesn't think is important, but you do.  And then create an organization to do some of those things.

[The_Duke]

Why aren't you forming your own?

Because mine would be a laughing stock compared to a Bitcoin Foundation with the lead dev on it's board of directors together with the two biggest Bitcoin businesses. And I don't like to be a laughing stock, that's why.

That's a terrible reason. It's also tantamount to stating that Gavin and Bitinstant *are* bitcoin, which, I think, is exactly the opposite of your viewpoint.

As I noted, these orgs are inevitable, and there's room for more than one. You could get a pool operator or two on board, maybe the devs of one of the alternative clients, other bitcoin businesses... No, you couldn't build something as prominent as TBF immediately, but if you were serious about it, you could build something else respectable that indeed have some sway, and serve to keep TBF "honest", if that's your intent.

Personally, I'd wait a few months, see if there is something that TBF isn't doing well, or doesn't think is important, but you do.  And then create an organization to do some of those things.

The problem is that after a few months, it will be hard to undo the damage TBF will have caused. In a few months, TBF will have such a lead on any new organization that such a new organisation would be fighting a lost battle. Newbies will not dig deep in history to find out how this foundation came into being. They will see THE bitcoin foundation with THE lead developer on board, with THE leading exchange on board, defining THE certifications and THE specifications for bitcoin and will stop looking there.
Even if officially nothing is centralized, just the way this whole thing is set up will lead to centralization because it abuses the lazyness/ignorance of the masses. And this is done on purpose.

[flower1024]

i would love that the foundation makes a commitment to not define "tainted coins".

if the majority of bitcoin-businness agress to mtgox definition of tainted coins (and - as mtgox does - not providing a way to see if you have tainted coins - i would definitly leave bitcoin)

[Melbustus]

The problem is that after a few months, it will be hard to undo the damage TBF will have caused. In a few months, TBF will have such a lead on any new organization that such a new organisation would be fighting a lost battle. Newbies will not dig deep in history to find out how this foundation came into being. They will see THE bitcoin foundation with THE lead developer on board, with THE leading exchange on board, defining THE certifications and THE specifications for bitcoin and will stop looking there.
Even if officially nothing is centralized, just the way this whole thing is set up will lead to centralization because it abuses the lazyness/ignorance of the masses. And this is done on purpose.

Nah, as I noted, if there was another org with some big pool operators, devs from other clients, other businesses, maybe some of the ASIC guys, etc, it would be taken seriously. And people/businesses can certainly support and be prominent in more than one of these entities...

Additionally, newbie visibility is only one factor. The more relevant factor is where most of the hashing power puts their vote. Newbies are not relevant in that context, and besides, newbies only remain newbies for a brief amount of time. They will quickly find other reputable orgs if they exist.

Several years out, it's not going to matter if one org was created 6 months before another...

[The_Duke]

The problem is that after a few months, it will be hard to undo the damage TBF will have caused. In a few months, TBF will have such a lead on any new organization that such a new organisation would be fighting a lost battle. Newbies will not dig deep in history to find out how this foundation came into being. They will see THE bitcoin foundation with THE lead developer on board, with THE leading exchange on board, defining THE certifications and THE specifications for bitcoin and will stop looking there.
Even if officially nothing is centralized, just the way this whole thing is set up will lead to centralization because it abuses the lazyness/ignorance of the masses. And this is done on purpose.

Nah, as I noted, if there was another org with some big pool operators, devs from other clients, other businesses, maybe some of the ASIC guys, etc, it would be taken seriously. And people/businesses can certainly support and be prominent in more than one of these entities...

Additionally, newbie visibility is only one factor. The more relevant factor is where most of the hashing power puts their vote. Newbies are not relevant in that context, and besides, newbies only remain newbies for a brief amount of time. They will quickly find other reputable orgs if they exist.

Several years out, it's not going to matter if one org was created 6 months before another...

I think that is a severe underestimation of the simplistic behaviour of the masses. The 6 months matter because of the way the masses flock after the first sheep. The name matters because the first sheep just follow the first thing they see.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

The problem is that after a few months, it will be hard to undo the damage TBF will have caused. In a few months, TBF will have such a lead on any new organization that such a new organisation would be fighting a lost battle. Newbies will not dig deep in history to find out how this foundation came into being.

Perhaps if the new organization is named exactly the same that might help a little.
At least, by seeing there are "two foundations", some people might figure out the truth that there's actually no Bitcoin foundation.

Even if officially nothing is centralized, just the way this whole thing is set up will lead to centralization because it abuses the lazyness/ignorance of the masses. And this is done on purpose.

I also believe the name was intentionally chosen to trick people. It's a lie in itself, calling it "The Bitcoin Foundation".
Don't know if it will "lead to centralization", that should not be possible. But just by seeing the amount of people which are already donating, we can see that they already have some pretty strong influence.

[Bitcoin Oz]

To promote transparency and enforce fair voting procedures, we require a real name and address for Individual members. We will eventually include address and name verification procedures. Please note that member dues paid to records that do not include a real name and mailable address will not be refunded. Thank you!

Why address?

Prevention of double voting can be accomplished using name ID only. There is no need for the foundation to have my home address.

Passports and many national ID cards do not have address on them, so you would need to obtain utility bills for proof of address creating an unnecessary paperwork burden.

I would be happy to verify my name using passport but I will not be supplying my home address. I hope the Foundation could reconsider removing the address requirement from individual membership.

It would be very unwise to hand over your home address.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/6/atfs-latest-gun-grab/

This is dangerous and foolhardy.

Yeah, it's like giving FED/CIA/FBI/MAFIAA all data necessary to imprison all dissidents on a plate (in case they would declare Bitcoin illegal). I do not like this.

This actually works like a honeypot. I wouldn't be surprised if, in case of data leakage (which is quite probable), FBI automatically wiretapped all people on the list...

Shouldn't there be an option of confirming one's Identity in-person ? For example by meeting one of "core members" in a public place ?

This is totally a serious issue, jokes & trolling aside.

 
Sometimes, reading this forum makes me believe the stupidity that there are actually two sides to choose from, and that I should be working for the CIA, FBI, and the BTF.
 
This forum is a honeypot, and should remain a honeypot, for paranoid narcissists, instant experts, know-it-all pundits, wannabe criminals, and delusional losers.
 

You dont think the US would classify people using bitcoin as terrorists ? You havent been paying attention  

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/12/10-ridiculous-things-that-make-you.html

[Melbustus]

The problem is that after a few months, it will be hard to undo the damage TBF will have caused. In a few months, TBF will have such a lead on any new organization that such a new organisation would be fighting a lost battle. Newbies will not dig deep in history to find out how this foundation came into being. They will see THE bitcoin foundation with THE lead developer on board, with THE leading exchange on board, defining THE certifications and THE specifications for bitcoin and will stop looking there.
Even if officially nothing is centralized, just the way this whole thing is set up will lead to centralization because it abuses the lazyness/ignorance of the masses. And this is done on purpose.

Nah, as I noted, if there was another org with some big pool operators, devs from other clients, other businesses, maybe some of the ASIC guys, etc, it would be taken seriously. And people/businesses can certainly support and be prominent in more than one of these entities...

Additionally, newbie visibility is only one factor. The more relevant factor is where most of the hashing power puts their vote. Newbies are not relevant in that context, and besides, newbies only remain newbies for a brief amount of time. They will quickly find other reputable orgs if they exist.

Several years out, it's not going to matter if one org was created 6 months before another...

I think that is a severe underestimation of the simplistic behaviour of the masses. The 6 months matter because of the way the masses flock after the first sheep. The name matters because the first sheep just follow the first thing they see.

Even if that were correct, as stated, newbie visibility is a minor factor.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You dont think the US would classify people using bitcoin as terrorists ? You havent been paying attention  

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/12/10-ridiculous-things-that-make-you.html

U r right!

Own Precious Metals -- Despite the fact that the Federal Reserve paper note (a.k.a. the dollar) is only sustained by faith, you could now be a suspected terrorist if you would like to preserve your wealth with something that holds real value like precious metals.  And forget about establishing an alternative currency made from silver or gold like Bernard von NotHaus as you may be lumped into a "unique form of terrorism."

Satoshi used analogy to gold. We r all suspected now. Some of us even sent their real identities to "TBF".

[The_Duke]

Even if that were correct, as stated, newbie visibility is a minor factor.

No it isn't. The vast majority of the world, and thus the vast majority of potential new mining power is at the moment a newbie. The newbie of now is the bitcoin of the future. As you state yourself, it is what "the miner" chooses that will determine the future of bitcoin. The newbie IS the miner. So an organisation that manages to trick newbies into thinking that they are THE organisation to look to when learning about bitcoin has a lot (too much) of power to determine where bitcoin is headed.

[Polvos]

No it isn't. The vast majority of the world, and thus the vast majority of potential new mining power is at the moment a newbie. The newbie of now is the bitcoin of the future. As you state yourself, it is what "the miner" chooses that will determine the future of bitcoin. The newbie IS the miner. So an organisation that manages to trick newbies into thinking that they are THE organisation to look to when learning about bitcoin has a lot (too much) of power to determine where bitcoin is headed.

That's what i said in one of my earliest posts. Control the newcomers and, someday, you will control the majority of the network.

The Foundation acting as a honeypot is the real danger here. Newcomers in the Foundation are required to leave their anonimity under the present, and more important, the future USA laws. That's dangerous.

How many time until a Foundation critical mass of users start giving their bitcoin transactions more value than ours just because they left anonimity behind? How many time until "first class deanonymized certified coins" and "second class rogue certified coins"?

[The_Duke]

See this thread for how the core developers seem to feel about TBF. They seem to WANT their client to be the only supported one and seem to feel that their work is the only one that should be supported by TBF.
Very sad to see

[Polvos]

See this thread for how the core developers seem to feel about TBF. They seem to WANT their client to be the only supported one and seem to feel that their work is the only one that should be supported by TBF.
Very sad to see

Thanks for the link. I'll jump there to read and, probably, install too a "rogue" client. This is becoming sadder day after day.