Slimcoin | First Proof of Burn currency | Decentralized Web

[gavrilo77]

On ACME there is more than 2 milions burnt coins it shows, and supply is 15.2 mln (total 17.2).

From getburndata

Formatted nEffectiveBurnCoins" : "1485929.294532"

The same is on http://www.slimcoin.club/

If you follow somehow Total coins:Burned coins~10:1

But still i stayed without answer, is the diff PoB follow diff for PoW?

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[d5000]

Cool that 0.6 development has begun

I still didn't adapt the Blocknotify script, so I cannot report anything from my Fuseki "tries" yet.

I was able to enter the Slack channel now, and there was some nice activity.

On ACME there is more than 2 milions burnt coins it shows, and supply is 15.2 mln (total 17.2).

From getburndata
Formatted nEffectiveBurnCoins" : "1485929.294532"
The same is on http://www.slimcoin.club/

Formatted nEffectiveBurnCoins is not the same than the total burnt coins (=all coins that had been sent to the burn address). Formatted nEffectiveBurnCoins is the "weight" that the burnt coins still have ("burnt coins" minus "decayed burnt coins". That's why that number is lower.

If you follow somehow Total coins:Burned coins~10:1

That is interesting ... it may be coincidence, but it could be also possible that there is some kind of "equilibrium" near this point. Although the "burnt coins market" is still too immature to draw long term conclusions.

But still i stayed without answer, is the diff PoB follow diff for PoW?

It seems it is not directly following it, but they're connected in some way because there is a target of 3 PoW blocks between PoB blocks, I unfortunately don't understand the code completely. This seems to be the relevant code:

Code:

    {
        const CBigNum bnTargetLimit = bnProofOfBurnLimit;

        if (pindexLast == NULL)
            return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact(); // genesis block

        //go backwards and find the last PoB block in the blockchain
        // once it exits, pindex is the last PoB block in the blockchain
        // and nPoW is the number of PoW blocks between pindexLast (inclusive) and the final pindex
        u32int nPoW = 0;
        const CBlockIndex *pindex = pindexLast;
        for (; pindex && !pindex->IsProofOfBurn(); pindex = pindex->pprev)
            if (pindex->IsProofOfWork())
                nPoW++;

        //if pindex is NULL, that means that there were no PoB blocks found and it got to the genesis block
        if (!pindex)
            return bnTargetLimit.GetCompact();

        //if there were no PoW blocks between, return the pindexLast's nBurnBits
        if (!nPoW)
            return pindexLast->nBurnBits;

        // slimcoin: target change every block
        // slimcoin: retarget with exponential moving toward target spacing

        //use the last PoB block's target as a seed
        CBigNum bnNew;
        bnNew.SetCompact(pindex->nBurnBits);

        //target spacing is 3 PoW blocks inbetween each PoB block
        const int64 nTargetSpacing = POB_TARGET_SPACING;
        const int64 nInterval = nPoBTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;

        bnNew *= ((nInterval - 1) * nTargetSpacing + nPoW + nPoW);
        bnNew /= ((nInterval + 1) * nTargetSpacing);

        //we can't make it too easy
        if (bnNew > bnTargetLimit)
            bnNew = bnTargetLimit;

        return bnNew.GetCompact();    

    }

[Cbx.Bet]

The orderbook on nova are empty ?

There is a reason

[d5000]

The orderbook on nova are empty ?

There is a reason

Must have been a temporary error, because I see the order book pretty "full", even with an acceptable spread between buy and ask price I was not accustomed to with Slimcoin until now

Recheck it: https://novaexchange.com/market/BTC_SLM/

By the way: I today looked briefly into the blocknotify scripts, but it seems I would have to adapt them a bit because my Fuseki installation is in another place - it seems doable for me, though. But don't expect progress this week as I have pretty much RL obligations until early October ...

[aiaorta09]

When will it be production ready and coming across different exchanges.

--
thanks

[d5000]

When will it be production ready and coming across different exchanges.

--
thanks

In my opinion it's already "production ready". You can use it for everything you want, e.g. as a merchant, the client is fairly stable, still existing bugs are of minor importance. The developers are centered now adding some features and "modernize" the code a bit (v0.6).

With regards to exchanges, that depends on users. As there is no central corporation behind Slimcoin that could afford paying the high fees exchanges today charge for a listing (thousands of dollars!), those interested in more listings have to go the good old way - spread the word and "upvote" the coin on exchanges that allow that, contacting new exchanges, etc.

I for now am pleased that Novaexchange has now reached a decent liquidity and a relatively small bid-ask spread (until one or two months ago the spread was of 30% and more ...).

[gjhiggins]

the high fees exchanges today charge for a listing (thousands of dollars!)

Tens of thousands.

Cheers

Graham

[TheKingInYellow]

This is a novel coin with a strong network and active and friendly community. Every dog has it's day. I see this like Fastcoin; undervalued.

[muf18]

the high fees exchanges today charge for a listing (thousands of dollars!)

Tens of thousands.

Cheers

Graham

And there was a time, that exchanges were even 'battling' for coins/tokens, with free votes, etc.
Almost all exchanges are now for fees, only newest or biggest exchanges list without fees normally (but biggest are hard to get on).

[gjhiggins]

And there was a time, that exchanges were even 'battling' for coins/tokens, with free votes, etc.

That's the impact of the costs of KYC/AML regulation.

Cheers

Graham

[TheKingInYellow]

And there was a time, that exchanges were even 'battling' for coins/tokens, with free votes, etc.

That's the impact of the costs of KYC/AML regulation.

Cheers

Graham

Is there some sort of a long term roadmap planned for Slim? Just curious tia

[nemwanderer]

This is a novel coin with a strong network and active and friendly community. Every dog has it's day. I see this like Fastcoin; undervalued.

Spread the word, will you-I for one think that the marketcap is ridiculously undervalued. No reason this shouldn't be a 20-30mio coin.

[muf18]

If you want you can surely bring more publicity by posting on facebook groups, about this thread, website, and whitepaper, some quick info also.
Twitter has now almost 600 followers, and if we will go to another step, I'll post info about it there.
I was posting on some groups 1-2 weeks ago, and it bringed some people to slack, and to mining, as I have seen, but not much.
But if we would corridinate our efforts, it could bring more.
At least exchange is active ones more with 1.2-1.4BTC orders in bid.

There is my 'loose' roadmap, but for now we are focusing on these main goals:
- Web2Web support: Decentralized websites that are updated via the blockchain and can be read without installing any software!
- ACME, a new breed of blockchain explorer, works with Semantic Web technologies and includes a Web2Web browser.
Also decentralized with several seed nodes
- slimvm: a small virtual machine for Ricardian contracts
- Improvements to the Slimcoin Core client: Watch addresses, "total burnt" score support, BIP65 (OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY)

[gjhiggins]

Heads up BCT holders ...

http://blog.rongarret.info/2017/09/the-bitcoin-apocalypse-is-coming.html

Coupla standouts, Ron is one of the few technically well-informed people who actually understands the role of the embracing social contract:

The problem is that making any changes to Bitcoin is really, really hard, and this too is by design.  At root, Bitcoin is a process for achieving distributed consensus, in particular, a consensus about who owns what.  But before you can use this process you have to achieve consensus about the process itself.  And you can't use the blockchain to achieve that consensus.  The whole thing can only be bootstrapped by the messy process of politics and human interaction.  That is one of the reasons that it is remarkable that Bitcoin has gotten as far as it has.

If he was aware of the fact that user groups of cryptocurrencies based on the Bitcoin protocol are inherently Teal orgs, he might not have seen Bitcoin's continued survival as quite as remarkable.

This is why I find questions about a roadmap impossible to answer - it doesn't matter how much effort is put in to improving the codebase or promoting the coin, the silent majority silently makes its silent judgement as to whether it can be collectively arsed to bother.

But it is admittedly true that ...

The elephant in the room is what many see as Bitcoin's core value proposition, the supply limit of 21 million coins.  This limit is often advertised as being inviolable because it is mathematically enforced, but that is only true as long as everyone is running the code that enforces that limit.  The 21-million coin limit is enforced by exactly the same mechanism that currently enforces the block size limit.  If the one can change, so can the other.

What Ron doesn't address is the question what economic parameters are collectively perceived as definitional? Would it still be Bitcoin if the limit were 21,000,001 coins? What about 21,000,002? 22,000,000? If the algo was changed to Blake2 for extra speed? If the algo changed to Blake2 because SHA-2 was compromised? Anyone care to challenge me if I asserted this is a matter of group psychology rather than economics?

Where next for Slimcoin? I can discern a broad trajectory - the next phase will be a period of consolidation during which the added functionality is polished into something accessible and immediately usable. This involves creating more accessible descriptions of Slimcoin, descriptions which barely mention cryptocurrency at all.

... unless it is the case that collectively the group feels that Slimcoin should remain purely a “store of value” cryptocurrency - and we won't find out until the silent majority has not spoken (if you get my drift).

Cheers

Graham

[gavrilo77]

Something is not right. What i have see is that PoS increase diff for PoW and PoB while diff for PoS stay low. It is not possible that 3 Mhs hash gives diff ~0.24 -0.25. After many years of involvement in SLM, in the last couple of months i cant see any logic.

PoW max 50 SLM. Diff rise reward is less. That is fine
PoB max reward 250 SLM. Diff rise, same as PoW, reward is similar to PoW???

[muf18]

There was even some PoB 100-150SLM reward block?
I think not, it was always 50 and less it seems so.
PoS diff isn't increasing, I was able to block network with my small number of coins for a few hours while Posing. So it's strange.

[gjhiggins]

Something is not right. What i have see is that PoS increase diff for PoW and PoB while diff for PoS stay low. It is not possible that 3 Mhs hash gives diff ~0.24 -0.25. After many years of involvement in SLM, in the last couple of months i cant see any logic.

PoW max 50 SLM. Diff rise reward is less. That is fine
PoB max reward 250 SLM. Diff rise, same as PoW, reward is similar to PoW???

Difficulty is focused on controlling the emission rate by varying the amount of hashing required and (I suppose) needs to account for variations in network PoS staking weight hash vs steady PoW hash vs irregular PoB PoWPoS hash (says PoW but hash req'd is PoS level) to maintain the overall level of hash required to secure the ledger.

The profile of the network has changed in the last few months, it would be worrying if the ratios didn't change.

PoB vs PoW vs PoS rewards and the development history are canonically detailed here:

https://github.com/slimcoin-project/Slimcoin/blame/slimcoin/src/main.cpp#L1050

Slimcoin is a PoSV1 implementation, as characterised by earlz: http://earlz.net/view/2017/07/27/1904/the-missing-explanation-of-proof-of-stake-version

PoSv1 - This version is implemented in Peercoin. It relied heavily on the notion of "coin age", or how long a UTXO has not been spent on the blockchain. It's implementation would basically make it so that the higher the coin age, the more the difficulty is reduced. This had the bad side-effect however of encouraging people to only open their wallet every month or longer for staking. Assuming the coins were all relatively old, they would almost instantaneously produce new staking blocks. This however makes double-spend attacks extremely easy to execute. Peercoin itself is not affected by this because it is a hybrid PoW and PoS blockchain, so the PoW blocks mitigated this effect.

HTH

Cheers

Graham

[Cbx.Bet]

The orderbook on nova are empty ?

There is a reason

Must have been a temporary error

in fact it was temporary.

I have restarted my wallet.

In February I burn 500 Slimcoin and I did not win any SLM.
Is this a bug in version 4.8.6 ?

I have :

Net Burnt Coins:         500.00 SLM
Effective Burnt Coins:  387.057999 SLM
Immature Burnt Coins: 0.00 SLM
Decayed Burnt Coins:   112.942767 SLM

[d5000]

What Ron doesn't address is the question what economic parameters are collectively perceived as definitional?

I had a discussion about that topic here at BCT some weeks ago (I don't remember the thread title). In my opinion, there are not really "definitional" parameters, but there are a number of parameters that are foreseeable very difficult to change. These are those that strongly affect the "value theory" of Bitcoin (e.g. those limiting the coin supply) _and_ require a hard fork to be changed.

In hard forks there will always be a period with two different chains (if the network is not so small that at every code update 100% of all clients upgrade at the same time). So if you change a parameter that affects the "value theory" like the "21 million coins limit" in Bitcoin, then it's foreseeable that those that not change to the (e.g.) 21.000.001 version will promote their own version as "the original Bitcoin".  They have a strong argument in favour and against a hard fork because Bitcoin's "value" is tied to the supply mechanism, and even if it only increases one satoshi in the hard fork, it's modified and will be considered "broken" by many. So the new chain with 21.000.001 coins perhaps can survive but from many will be considered an "alt coin". This is, like you say, a case of group psychology, but based on economic arguments.

A change of the PoW algorithm would, in my opinion, not affect the "value theory" directly, because we consider the current algorithm "secure enough", and so a change to another "secure enough" algorithm would not influence the value theory. Here it would be much less difficult - although not easy at all - to influence the users to massively update to the hard-forked version if it is advantageous to do so.

Where next for Slimcoin? I can discern a broad trajectory - the next phase will be a period of consolidation during which the added functionality is polished into something accessible and immediately usable. This involves creating more accessible descriptions of Slimcoin, descriptions which barely mention cryptocurrency at all.

... unless it is the case that collectively the group feels that Slimcoin should remain purely a “store of value” cryptocurrency - and we won't find out until the silent majority has not spoken (if you get my drift).

I agree here, although I find it hard to replace "cryptocurrency" if we must explain something that complicated like "proof of burn". But regarding more "accessible" features (like the "core payment function" or Web2Web pages), it may be easier ...

[muf18]

The orderbook on nova are empty ?

There is a reason

Must have been a temporary error

in fact it was temporary.

I have restarted my wallet.

In February I burn 500 Slimcoin and I did not win any SLM.
Is this a bug in version 4.8.6 ?

I have :

Net Burnt Coins:         500.00 SLM
Effective Burnt Coins:  387.057999 SLM
Immature Burnt Coins: 0.00 SLM
Decayed Burnt Coins:   112.942767 SLM

You must have your wallet unlocked and running in the background with internet connection, not turned off.