XMR/AEON Developer Smooth Investigation

[BlockaFett]

Okay noting that we don't agree, let's move on then.

What changes, if any, do you propose to the disclosure statement?

Something like:

"I am the core dev of 2 small competitors to Dash (AEON / Monero) so by accusing Dash of being an "instamine scam" thousands of times on BCT over 5 months, I have a vested interest and as such this kind of investment advice from me should be taken with a grain of salt "

[smooth]

Okay, I recognize that you don't agree.

Perhaps, then, this is an opportunity to agree to improve the disclosure statement so you no longer interpret it as a threat. I see no evidence that generlizethis intended it as a threat when he proposed it and offered it for your feedback. I guess maybe if you had engaged with the process at that time, this disagreement could have been avoided.

Let's be constructive.

What changes, if any, do you propose to the disclosure statement?

[BlockaFett]

Hey Dash shill (who obviously has a massive conflict of interest even posting on this subject, wouldn't you agree?), let's look at the entire message you pulled out of context there:

Nope lol - Dash community is your main target right now with you as the attacker - you are holding the whole community hostage by threatening to spam the thread daily with a 'public service announcement' until the 'media' complies with your demands to report Dash how you want - I think they are the experts on your trolilng Smooth

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the dash media reflects these facts, this warning will be posted every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning will not be posted when the media reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

PS - got my old account working again 

As I said to your Dash buddy on the previous post, I don't care about any of that, and I never will.

I will let the facts speak for themselves. The end.

The fact is, trying to hold the whole community of a top 5 alt coin hostage, by threatening them and issuing demands to 'the media' is not normal psychiatric behavior.  It kind of starts to explain the sheer volume of your attack posts and apparent unawareness of your obvious conflict-of-interest and the level to which you are destroying your own and your coins reputations.  Someone just sent me this and so I gather he was basically the founder of your main coin, I guess it explains a lot about how you behave: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=793787.0

There is no threat.

Posting factual information on Dash's thread about Dash, facts that happen to be of extreme relevance to any investor or potential investor in Dash, is on-topic and won't be stopped by your attempts at intimidation.

And by the way, since you have problems with reading comprehension, I did not say that I was going to post it every 24 hours, and certainly did not "threaten" to do so. That is part of the content of the message. You are, however, welcome to collaborate on the content of the disclosure message, I have no opinion on that at all. It is between you and generalizethis, if you choose to participate.

But we can start now. What modifications to that disclosure message would you like to propose?

Also you you are incorrect about Risto being the founder of Monero. He came along later as an investor, once it started to become popular.

"this warning will be posted every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning will not be posted when the media reflects these facts"

That's a threat Smooth. 

Before you start trying to pretend you have any basic legal knowledge, please remember who you're talking to and what happened last time.

You took one line out of context. If you read the entire message from the start, it is clear I am quoting a pre-prepared disclosure statement.

If anything, my take on the intent of that (possibly explicit if you look back in this thread where it was discussed), was that once-every-24 hours was intended as a maximum frequency, to respond constructively to the complaint about many messages per day. Do you disagree with that?

What changes would you propose to the disclosure statement?

Don't agree.  It's a clear threat, and to embarrass yourself to that extent with total apparent lack-of-awareness of how ridiculous you are starting to sound, I think you should get help.

It's more of a protest in my opinion. Those hiding pertinent information from ignorant potential investors should have their unethical behavior spotlighted. It's a bane to the cryptocurrency community as a whole.

It's never been hidden: https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/

Smooth just drags it up for months after it was widely discussed because it's the only criticism of Dash he can come up with, and Dash is inconveniently standing in the way of his Monero clone of Bytecoin from being 'the next bitcoin'.

Please, do your own research.

[BlockaFett]

Okay, I recognize that you don't agree.

Perhaps, then, this is an opportunity to agree to improve the disclosure statement so you no longer interpret it as a threat. I see no evidence that generlizethis intended it as a threat when he proposed it and offered it for your feedback. I guess maybe if you had engaged with the process at that time, this disagreement could have been avoided.

Let's be constructive.

What changes, if any, do you propose to the disclosure statement?

As I said above ^

As a core dev, to have any semblance of ethics / professionalism, when accusing your competitors of being frauds/scams, you just do it once and do it properly and let people make their own mind up.

Trying it on by posting it 1000's of times on numerours threads, including to the point where the Dash thread has now been mainly you and Icebreaker spamming this (yes I see you are deleting those messages), proves you are not doing it out of any 'honest concern'.

The bottom line is, core devs should not be 'protecting their competitors commuities from scams'.  I don't think you have any idea (or a lot of people here) how extremely crooked that is to do, and why (for example) no one from the Dash team has ever mentioned your own problems like crippled miner launch, botnets, extracting user's private keys to a server - it's not their place to say.

As long as you don't get this, you are just destroying your own credibility and investments. 

[smooth]

Hey Dash shill (who obviously has a massive conflict of interest even posting on this subject, wouldn't you agree?), let's look at the entire message you pulled out of context there:

Nope lol - Dash community is your main target right now with you as the attacker - you are holding the whole community hostage by threatening to spam the thread daily with a 'public service announcement' until the 'media' complies with your demands to report Dash how you want - I think they are the experts on your trolilng Smooth

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the dash media reflects these facts, this warning will be posted every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning will not be posted when the media reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

PS - got my old account working again 

As I said to your Dash buddy on the previous post, I don't care about any of that, and I never will.

I will let the facts speak for themselves. The end.

The fact is, trying to hold the whole community of a top 5 alt coin hostage, by threatening them and issuing demands to 'the media' is not normal psychiatric behavior.  It kind of starts to explain the sheer volume of your attack posts and apparent unawareness of your obvious conflict-of-interest and the level to which you are destroying your own and your coins reputations.  Someone just sent me this and so I gather he was basically the founder of your main coin, I guess it explains a lot about how you behave: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=793787.0

There is no threat.

Posting factual information on Dash's thread about Dash, facts that happen to be of extreme relevance to any investor or potential investor in Dash, is on-topic and won't be stopped by your attempts at intimidation.

And by the way, since you have problems with reading comprehension, I did not say that I was going to post it every 24 hours, and certainly did not "threaten" to do so. That is part of the content of the message. You are, however, welcome to collaborate on the content of the disclosure message, I have no opinion on that at all. It is between you and generalizethis, if you choose to participate.

But we can start now. What modifications to that disclosure message would you like to propose?

Also you you are incorrect about Risto being the founder of Monero. He came along later as an investor, once it started to become popular.

"this warning will be posted every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning will not be posted when the media reflects these facts"

That's a threat Smooth. 

Before you start trying to pretend you have any basic legal knowledge, please remember who you're talking to and what happened last time.

You took one line out of context. If you read the entire message from the start, it is clear I am quoting a pre-prepared disclosure statement.

If anything, my take on the intent of that (possibly explicit if you look back in this thread where it was discussed), was that once-every-24 hours was intended as a maximum frequency, to respond constructively to the complaint about many messages per day. Do you disagree with that?

What changes would you propose to the disclosure statement?

Don't agree.  It's a clear threat, and to embarrass yourself to that extent with total apparent lack-of-awareness of how ridiculous you are starting to sound, I think you should get help.

It's more of a protest in my opinion. Those hiding pertinent information from ignorant potential investors should have their unethical behavior spotlighted. It's a bane to the cryptocurrency community as a whole.

It's never been hidden: https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/

Smooth just drags it up for months after it was widely discussed because it's the only criticism of Dash he can come up with, and Dash is inconveniently standing in the way of his Monero clone of Bytecoin from being 'the next bitcoin'.

Please, do your own research.

I don't agree that serves as accurate or complete disclosure.

It certainly excludes many important details such as the developer misleading people about he launch time, or major investors and/or insiders influencing the developer to cancel a community vote on the "air drop". Those are well-documented here, but not mentioned at all at dashtalk.org: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=793787.0

Furthermore, people may not wish to visit an external web site -- after all they chose to use this one -- and should be able to learn the relevant facts on the Dash thread here, where they are relevant and on-topic.

[smooth]

no one from the Dash team has ever mentioned your own problems like crippled miner launch, botnets, extracting user's private keys to a server - it's not their place to say.

That's where we disagree. To use your term from earlier, I'm in favor of freedom. If they wish to comment, they are welcome to do so. No one is changing them out of the Monero thread if they want to talk about Monero, positive or negative.  Ideally they should have documented facts at their disposal, as I do here, including quotes from the developer himself: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=793787.0

As much as you might want to suppress discussion and disclosure of documented facts, on a thread where they are clearly relevant and on-topic, it isn't going to fly.

[smooth]

yes I see you are deleting those messages

Not true. I have deleted no messages. I have also received no notices from the forum about them being deleted by mods (I did receive a few notices yesterday), so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I also documented earlier that there have been weeks and even months when I never posted on the Dash thread at all.

So you really being quite hyperbolic about the whole thing.

How about we stick to the facts and work on refining the disclosure statement so no one is mislead?

[BlockaFett]

...

I don't agree that serves as accurate or complete disclosure.

It certainly excludes many important details such as the developer misleading people about he launch time, or major investors and/or insiders influencing the developer to cancel a community vote on the "air drop". Those are well-documented here, but not mentioned at all at dashtalk.org: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=793787.0

Furthermore, people may not wish to visit an external web site -- after all they chose to use this one -- and should be able to learn the relevant facts on the Dash thread here, where they are relevant and on-topic.

You posted the same stuff over 1000 times already, I think people just got bored listening to you about the first 2 days of your competitors launch, 18 months ago, with a new algo (X11) that had an emission bug (like nearly all new algos), that was officially reported and handled by the dev / community together.

It's really neurotic that you are still posting the same stuff even on this thread where I am pointing out the real reason why you are doing it (to create the appearance that "dash is a scam" so your own coin can be pumped).

You yourself released a deliberately crippled miner to the XMR community complete with redundant iterations, and after someone in the community pointed it out, you claimed you didn't know.  

And there was no official announcement, just comments like this:

...

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Same as how recently I showed how your web wallet MyMonero.com was storing user's private keys in a cookie and conveniently sending them to the server.  Again, after I expose this 'bug', there was no official announcement, and as far as we know it is still happening.

Given your own 'shady' beginnings and operations even now 1 year after Monero launch, if you really want to investigate scams, you should probably relinquish your titles of 'core team' for XMR / AEON.  Maybe then people might start to take your claims of neutrality seriously.

[smooth]

You yourself released a deliberately crippled miner to the XMR community complete with redundant iterations, and after someone in the community pointed it out, you claimed you didn't know.  

And there was no official announcement, just comments like this:

That's incorrect. It was precisely one of our core team members who announced their suspicions (or course this could never be completely proven) that it may have been deliberately crippled, last year shortly after launch when it was discovered and we undertook to fix it.

...

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Same as how recently I showed how your web wallet MyMonero.com was storing user's private keys in a cookie and conveniently sending them to the server.  Again, after I expose this 'bug', there was no official announcement.

Given your own 'shady' beginnings and operations even now 1 year after Monero launch, if you really want to investigate scams, you should probably relinquish your titles of 'core team' for XMR / AEON.  Maybe then people might start to take your claims of neutrality seriously.

No thank you. And I don't claim neutrality, particularly. I claim that people should evaluate the facts on their own merit, regardless of the source.

[BlockaFett]

You yourself released a deliberately crippled miner to the XMR community complete with redundant iterations, and after someone in the community pointed it out, you claimed you didn't know.  

And there was no official announcement, just comments like this:

That's incorrect. It was precisely one of our core team members who announced their suspicions (or course this could never be completely proven) that it may have been deliberately crippled, last year shortly after launch when it was discovered and we undertook to fix it.

...

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Same as how recently I showed how your web wallet MyMonero.com was storing user's private keys in a cookie and conveniently sending them to the server.  Again, after I expose this 'bug', there was no official announcement.

Given your own 'shady' beginnings and operations even now 1 year after Monero launch, if you really want to investigate scams, you should probably relinquish your titles of 'core team' for XMR / AEON.  Maybe then people might start to take your claims of neutrality seriously.

No thank you. And I don't claim neutrality, particularly. I claim that people should evaluate the facts on their own merit, regardless of the source.

Assuming it was a developer who pointed out that you launched a deliberately crippled miner to the Monero community, I assume that by not contesting the other information that we know you have read now, you are not denying that it is true?

[smooth]

Anyway let's work on that disclosure statement, since I think it may discourage redundant or even inaccurate posts on the Dash thread. That's something we can all get behind, correct?

How about this:

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the prominent information about the coin (such as OP, thread topic header, web site home page, etc.) conspicuously discloses these facts, this warning may be posted no more than every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning should not be posted if the prominent information about the coin (as described above) reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent information on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

Conflict of interest disclaimer: the person posting this prepared message may have an interest in or be affiliated with a competing project or coin.

[smooth]

You yourself released a deliberately crippled miner to the XMR community complete with redundant iterations, and after someone in the community pointed it out, you claimed you didn't know.  

And there was no official announcement, just comments like this:

That's incorrect. It was precisely one of our core team members who announced their suspicions (or course this could never be completely proven) that it may have been deliberately crippled, last year shortly after launch when it was discovered and we undertook to fix it.

...

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Same as how recently I showed how your web wallet MyMonero.com was storing user's private keys in a cookie and conveniently sending them to the server.  Again, after I expose this 'bug', there was no official announcement.

Given your own 'shady' beginnings and operations even now 1 year after Monero launch, if you really want to investigate scams, you should probably relinquish your titles of 'core team' for XMR / AEON.  Maybe then people might start to take your claims of neutrality seriously.

No thank you. And I don't claim neutrality, particularly. I claim that people should evaluate the facts on their own merit, regardless of the source.

Assuming it was a developer who pointed out that you launched a deliberately crippled miner to the Monero community, I assume that by not contesting the other information that we know you have read now, you are not denying that it is true?

Please be more specific. There is a lot of selective quoting and such.

I you are referring to the MyMonero thing, you should be aware that I have zero involvement with MyMonero. I usually inform people that it is not as secure or private as a personal non-web wallet, and that you need to trust the operator (but that I consider the operator trustworthy). I did just precisely that on reddit recently in fact.

[BlockaFett]

Anyway let's work on that disclosure statement, since I think it may discourage redundant or even inaccurate posts on the Dash thread. That's something we can all get behind, correct?

How about this:

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the prominent information about the coins (such as OP, thread topic header, web site home page, etc.) conspicuously discloses these facts, this warning may be posted no more than every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning should not be posted if the prominent information about the coin (as described above) reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

Conflict of interest disclaimer: the person posting this prepared message may have an interest in or be affiliated with a competing project or coin.

Sorry Smooth, there's some real devs who just did a release that I need to go and deploy, then I have plans for the evening.  https://dashtalk.org/threads/v12-release.5888/

Wondering about your own communities, what have you released recently?

AEON - Aug. 7th, 2015: 0.9.1.1 - not bad
XMR - Dec. 8th, 2014: v0.8.8.6  

I guess developing AEON now is more attractive, seeing as it's only 2% of Monero market cap, has the same codebase / features, and hardly anyone in the Monero community knows you are there building it up yet with 2.5% of supply to spend if it ever gains in value.

You are being quite open with the AEON community right now on their thread though I see:

...
At the risk of stating the obvious, upside in this coin is a long term prospect.
....

EDIT: BTW, obviously, I will never help you to attack your competitors, including 'draft' some neurotic ransom-note that you intent to spam on a competitor's thread lol

[smooth]

Anyway let's work on that disclosure statement, since I think it may discourage redundant or even inaccurate posts on the Dash thread. That's something we can all get behind, correct?

How about this:

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the prominent information about the coins (such as OP, thread topic header, web site home page, etc.) conspicuously discloses these facts, this warning may be posted no more than every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning should not be posted if the prominent information about the coin (as described above) reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

Conflict of interest disclaimer: the person posting this prepared message may have an interest in or be affiliated with a competing project or coin.

Sorry Smooth, there's some real devs who just did a release that I need to go and deploy, then I have plans for the evening.  https://dashtalk.org/threads/v12-release.5888/

Wondering about your own communities, what have you released recently?

AEON - Aug. 7th, 2015: 0.9.1.1 - not bad
XMR - Dec. 8th, 2014: v0.8.8.6 

I will acknowledge and agree that the release cycle on Monero has been disappointing but there really is some excellent and even accelerating development in the github tree that is still being tested and refined (and indeed used by some folks who are on the more adventurous/self-sufficent side).

Hopefully this is something we can improve in the future (faster release cycles).

I guess developing AEON now is more attractive, seeing as it's only 2% of Monero market cap, has the same codebase / features, and hardly anyone in the Monero community knows you are there building it up yet with 2.5% of supply to spend if it ever gains in value.

It doesn't really have the same features. It is diverging somewhat. Both have features that the other lacks, though there may be some reconvergence later as code is merged up- and down-stream. That has always been my plan (and disclosed as such). There are also advantages in agility in freedom from a smaller team but also the obvious disadvantage of many fewer people to work on it. It is not clear how that is going to work out.

Anyway, congratulations on the Dash release. Whatever my issues with Dash, I acknowledge that a lot of work went into that and getting it to a full release is a real accomplishment.

[VladimirN]

Do not speak for the entire community Aeon. Smooth, we believe in you. It's just a massive trolling. These trolls are not able to build your project, they are like jackals! We continue to move forward on their heads ...

[BlockaFett]

Anyway let's work on that disclosure statement, since I think it may discourage redundant or even inaccurate posts on the Dash thread. That's something we can all get behind, correct?

How about this:

public service announcement

Dash (formerly xcoin and darkcoin) had a significant fastmine over the first 48 hours of its existence (~2 million coins). These facts should not be glossed over by those seeking a fairly launched coin, so until the prominent information about the coins (such as OP, thread topic header, web site home page, etc.) conspicuously discloses these facts, this warning may be posted no more than every 24 hours on the BCT dash thread. This warning should not be posted if the prominent information about the coin (as described above) reflects these facts. For those seeking more information Monero Developer Smooth has created a thread with the pertinent on this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

Conflict of interest disclaimer: the person posting this prepared message may have an interest in or be affiliated with a competing project or coin.

Sorry Smooth, there's some real devs who just did a release that I need to go and deploy, then I have plans for the evening.  https://dashtalk.org/threads/v12-release.5888/

Wondering about your own communities, what have you released recently?

AEON - Aug. 7th, 2015: 0.9.1.1 - not bad
XMR - Dec. 8th, 2014: v0.8.8.6 

I will acknowledge and agree that the release cycle on Monero has been disappointing but there really is some excellent and even accelerating development in the github tree that is still being tested and refined (and indeed used by some folks who are on the more adventurous/self-sufficent side).

Hopefully this is something we can improve in the future (faster release cycles).

I guess developing AEON now is more attractive, seeing as it's only 2% of Monero market cap, has the same codebase / features, and hardly anyone in the Monero community knows you are there building it up yet with 2.5% of supply to spend if it ever gains in value.

It doesn't really have the same features. It is diverging somewhat. Both have features that the other lacks, though there may be some reconvergence later as code is merged up- and down-stream. That has always been my plan (and disclosed as such). There are also advantages in agility in freedom from a smaller team but also the obvious disadvantage of many fewer people to work on it. It is not clear how that is going to work out.

Anyway, congratulations on the Dash release. Whatever my issues with Dash, I acknowledge that a lot of work went into that and getting it to a full release is a real accomplishment.

Anyway, congratulations on the Dash release. Whatever my issues with Dash, I acknowledge that a lot of work went into that and getting it to a full release is a real accomplishment.

Well you sound quite ethical and professional when you talk like that, i'm kind of shocked, never heard that before.  Thanks though.

[BlockaFett]

Do not speak for the entire community Aeon. Smooth, we believe in you. It's just a massive trolling. These trolls are not able to build your project, they are like jackals! We continue to move forward on their heads ...

Hey, I noticed people from a coin i'm not involved in started spamming your official AEON thread - I don't support that, spamming/repetition of FUD to drown the conversation, stops any intelligent debate and doesn't help anyone.  I have no feelings one way or the other on AEON either, this thread was about someone who happens to be one of you devs, that's all.  I wish both AEON / XMR communities the best.

[VladimirN]

Do not speak for the entire community Aeon. Smooth, we believe in you. It's just a massive trolling. These trolls are not able to build your project, they are like jackals! We continue to move forward on their heads ...

Hey, I noticed people from a coin i'm not involved in started spamming your official AEON thread - I don't support that, spamming/repetition of FUD to drown the conversation, stops any intelligent debate and doesn't help anyone.  I have no feelings one way or the other on AEON either, this thread was about someone who happens to be one of you devs, that's all.  I wish both AEON / XMR communities the best.

 I wish both AEON / XMR communities the best.
We must work together! Criticism is useful in the development of something new. But it is necessary to separate the criticism from tolling ... The clash of interests leads to a blank charges...

[VladimirN]

AEON bransh:

Well done Smooth!


Lots of new blood coming. And its just the beginning...  Hero member dev, people with tech background, old forum members, super cheap price after drama... Couldn't resist again... Seriously... 7 millions coins out there and trading at 4k... Its a robbery...  

This is a normal troll, any cooperation with him is not possible? 

[generalizethis]

AEON bransh:

Well done Smooth!


Lots of new blood coming. And its just the beginning...  Hero member dev, people with tech background, old forum members, super cheap price after drama... Couldn't resist again... Seriously... 7 millions coins out there and trading at 4k... Its a robbery...  

This is a normal troll, any cooperation with him is not possible? 

I just bought some because i like and respect Smooth and any fairly launched cryptonote coin is all right with me. XMR, BBR and AEON