Suicide

[otrkid70]

Suicide defies all of Natures basic instinct to survive....

And Nature defies your opinion.
Many species, including humans, have built-in mechanisms for the body to shut down and die in response to extreme pain or fear thereof. I see no evolutionary advantage for any living being to just "give up and die" when that so-called survival instinct could still save it. If anyone has an explanation for how dying of fright could be an evolutionary advantage, I'd like to hear it.

If death occurs prior to any actual blunt trauma or irreversible damage, this suggests some aspects of advanced intelligence, even in small animals with primitive reptilian brains, which flies in the face of idealist beliefs such as "humans are special" or "animals lack our intelligence".

If a small bird gets captured from the wild and it dies of fright, this indicates several things:
-it has the mental capacity to forecast future events, and make an estimate that it's about to get eaten or somehow brutally hurt.
-it has the capacity to extrapolate pain levels that it has never experienced.
-in order to have basic concepts like "getting eaten", the primitive bird brain must therefore have language structures to understand those things.
-it probably has an ego and a subconscious mind that protects it from unmanageable suffering by controlling the physiology of the body. The ego could even participate in deciding how long to fight for survival, and when to bail.

This raises further questions:
Why the heck should a subconscious mind (or just biological programming) inside an intelligent being give a shit about protecting/nurturing some immaterial ego when the entire system is about to crash?
The evidence in nature hints that certain beliefs about reincarnation or rebirth, or some other post-death growth, could be correct. A counter-argument could be that suicide is a completely different thing from survival in the animal kingdom, but I disagree. It's always associated with unmanageable suffering, some forecast that it will continue or get worse, and it's all about protecting the ego. "Taking action" to manage your own death is completely natural, given that we naturally evolved these large brains that decide to do weird things.

You can't compare a Decision of Ending your life (Suicide) with Dying of fright they are not even the same category. One is a decision the other is a chain reaction to a traumatic situation.

You don't see an elephant jumping off a cliff because he is depressed and the owner beats it.....the elephant simply kills the owner in a rampage.  Can you give an Example of a Creature other than Humans Deliberately Committing suicide?   I would really love to see an example of this because i'm curious as to why Humans are the only creature that does this.

[blablahblah]

You can't compare a Decision of Ending your life (Suicide) with Dying of fright they are not even the same category. One is a decision the other is a chain reaction to a traumatic situation.

You don't see an elephant jumping off a cliff because he is depressed and the owner beats it.....the elephant simply kills the owner in a rampage.  Can you give an Example of a Creature other than Humans Deliberately Committing suicide?

The examples are just limited by your imagination. Animals often stand on roads. Why do people always assume that the animals are stupid or naive? If they're in a herd and getting chased by a predator, why assume that it's lack of fitness or bad genes if one of them runs more slowly? Maybe they're less motivated?

We invent these narratives that sick animals isolate themselves from the herd because they're just evolutionary zombies that have been programmed to protect the herd against diseases. But they could also be suffering, and deliberately exposing themselves to predators. While I think evolutionary theories and modern biology have contributed a lot to science, I also think they've been manipulated by Christian dogma.

To calling dying of fright a "chain reaction" is to rely on various beliefs about how things work.

[otrkid70]

You can't compare a Decision of Ending your life (Suicide) with Dying of fright they are not even the same category. One is a decision the other is a chain reaction to a traumatic situation.

You don't see an elephant jumping off a cliff because he is depressed and the owner beats it.....the elephant simply kills the owner in a rampage.  Can you give an Example of a Creature other than Humans Deliberately Committing suicide?

The examples are just limited by your imagination. Animals often stand on roads. Why do people always assume that the animals are stupid or naive? If they're in a herd and getting chased by a predator, why assume that it's lack of fitness or bad genes if one of them runs more slowly? Maybe they're less motivated?

We invent these narratives that sick animals isolate themselves from the herd because they're just evolutionary zombies that have been programmed to protect the herd against diseases. But they could also be suffering, and deliberately exposing themselves to predators. While I think evolutionary theories and modern biology have contributed a lot to science, I also think they've been manipulated by Christian dogma.

To calling dying of fright a "chain reaction" is to rely on various beliefs about how things work.

You make great points. But i do think dying of fright is classified as suicide. I still think it's trauma and bad genetics.  People/Animals get scared all the time but almost all survive the situation with the exception of a few. Animals understand that a predator wishes to do them harm that's why they run....I think your statement would stick if the Animal just sat there as the predator ate it. Then i would Classify it as suicide.

[PaoloSerBit]

In my opinion, under some circumstances, the sucide isn´t the worst choice a person can make. I don´t understand all those negative actions regarding it. I believe everyone should have right to do what he wants with his life as long as he doesn´t hurt the others.
The way of dying as presented in the first post is terryfing. That´s a terrible death to die of dehydration.   

[BADecker]

Suicide is murder, even if it is only self-murder. "And you know that no murder has eternal life abiding in himself."

"Greater love has no man than to give up his life for his friends."

So, you see? Suicide with a valiant, honorable purpose may be right. But suicide for selfish, cowardly, and probably even illness reasons is wrong.

This life is short when compared with the way we can think. Eternal life is life with no end - the hereafter. Make your suicide choice wisely. You really don't want to spend eternity in Hell.

[Racey]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

That is so true, government takes out a policy on the day of your birth registration.

If you know of any one who is feeling suicidal, help them by any means to choose life instead.

File a UCC1 Form on your strawman, and take back your property from government.

I am not sure this can be done in the UK let me know if otherwise, thanks.

Aslo I would love for once, not to see any mail dropping through my letter box with name in all CAPS= they own you.

Very good article on the subject

I believe Japan in very tolerant with suicides, It is reported that there are over 30,000 suicides every year in Japan with middle aged Japanese men are more likely to be at risk. This is a very sad reality created by modern Japan and there are a couple of issues that need to be fixed in order to reduce the number of suicidal people

[BADecker]

Suicide is illegal because it is a crime to destroy government property.

That is so true, government takes out a policy on the day of your birth registration.

If you know of any one who is feeling suicidal, help them by any means to choose life instead.

File a UCC1 Form on your strawman, and take back your property from government.

I am not sure this can be done in the UK let me know if otherwise, thanks.

Aslo I would love for once, not to see any mail dropping through my letter box with name in all CAPS= they own you.

Very good article on the subject

I believe Japan in very tolerant with suicides, It is reported that there are over 30,000 suicides every year in Japan with middle aged Japanese men are more likely to be at risk. This is a very sad reality created by modern Japan and there are a couple of issues that need to be fixed in order to reduce the number of suicidal people

It can be done in the UK. I have not a clue as to how, but...

Since they connect you to the all caps name, they must have a reason for connecting. Do you have something like a birth certificate over there? This is where it all starts. From then on, all your "agreements" with government are through the "PERSON" created by your birth certificate. In some cases additional PERSONs are conjured up that are subservient to your original one.

As long as you don't know about it, you can't do anything about it except by accident. If you do it by accident, chance are you won't know what has been done.

They have to base the strawman on a real person. Otherwise they could simply go and create as many "people" as they wanted and rule the world. Since the all caps PERSON is based on a human being, the human is the one who has interest in it beyond all others. If the human doesn't pick up and use his interest, it is up to government to use and control the interest.

In the US, the UCC is a shortcut to laws that have been recognized over decades of use, in such a way that the UCC has actually become law. If every UCC book dropped off the face of the planet, we could still operate by going back to the original laws that the UCC is founded on. It would simply be a more laborious process.

Does the UK have a counterpart of the UCC? If it does, you can use it similarly. If it doesn't, simply find the laws in the UCC, and find their counterparts in UK law.

The most important thing to remember and study is common law and Queens Bench. At Queens Bench you go to court as a man and can require to have a man face you. The British government is not a man. They cannot face you. Their attorneys aren't going to speak in common language. They lose.

Consider Karl Lentz - http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/. Karl isn't big on UCC stuff. But he is big on common law and the interest you have in something that is your property over the interest any other man or government has in it.

[foxbitcoin]

High rates of suicide in a society should be viewed as a failure of the society and their inability to identify and treat mental illness. Suicide will never be a problem that is 100% treatable, but if there are systems in place to help people who are struggling, then the problem would be severely reduced.

[blablahblah]

...To calling dying of fright a "chain reaction" is to rely on various beliefs about how things work.

You make great points. But i do think dying of fright is classified as suicide. I still think it's trauma and bad genetics.  People/Animals get scared all the time but almost all survive the situation with the exception of a few. Animals understand that a predator wishes to do them harm that's why they run....I think your statement would stick if the Animal just sat there as the predator ate it. Then i would Classify it as suicide.

Well, for anyone who *hasn't* died of fright, we can only speculate about death's nature, and whether it is or isn't a choice. I think that the existence of the 'self' is fundamentally tied to an ongoing need for some entity (the ego) to intervene and make decisions in life, including when to die.

The human ego has an incredible capacity to fool itself, taking risks -- literally risking death in some cases -- and putting itself in harm's way. How many intelligent people have wilfully ignored exhaustion and "accidentally" drowned? Or crashed while driving at excessive speeds for fun? Or OD'd because they guesstimated that their drugs were more diluted? Probably millions around the world every year. But none of it counts. It only counts as suicide when death occurs, it's symbolic and ostentatious, and probably presented with a note to loved ones, which may or may not make nice reading.

How do we distinguish between stupidity and deliberate suicidal behaviour? Is 'stupidity' just another narrative that observers invent in order to rationalise our fear of the unknown?

And what about all the people who knowingly risk death but survive? Daredevils? Or maybe we're just witnessing one of many possible worlds, and in this case they were lucky? Does survival against the odds make someone smarter or less suicidal?

^Open questions. I don't claim to have all the answers. Challenges welcome.

[BADecker]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

[blablahblah]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Genetics = I think it's wrong, therefore it must be bad programming.
lack of nutrition = programming error.
poisoning = programming error.

None of those options acknowledge an individual's ultimate sovereignty. They're either a slave to some deeper program, or a victim of chance. If those are the only options, then there's no such thing as suicide.

[BADecker]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Genetics = I think it's wrong, therefore it must be bad programming.
lack of nutrition = programming error.
poisoning = programming error.

None of those options acknowledge an individual's ultimate sovereignty. They're either a slave to some deeper program, or a victim of chance. If those are the only options, then there's no such thing as suicide.

The word was "tendencies." We all have suicidal tendencies at least a tiny bit, built into the genes. In fact, the medical doesn't understand why we die of old age. We have the ability to fight off every disease and sickness. It might be the genetic suicidal tendencies that do us all in at old age.

Good nutrition, free from poison, lets the body remain cheerful. Where there is a cheerful body, some of that cheer will rub off on the mind. After all, there aren't many sane and sober people who suicide themselves with a big fat smile on their face because life is so great.

Good nutrition and lack of pollution poison might be just the thing that keeps a genetically suicidal person happy enough to overpower his suicide tendencies.

[roadbits]

There needs to be more help and better help available to those who are in need. That might lower the rate of suicide among citizens. Of course nothing would completely eradicate suicide but there should be more help available.

[maku]

Suicide is a form of sickness of a mind. It should not be allowed. I am really against limiting the laws of humans to decide about their own fate and body.
But I gotta agree that suicide is not normal and usually is just effect of some trauma, stress, physical sickness and in many causes these problems can be eliminated.

[jayce]

Could drugs overdose be counted as a suicide, since they still do drugs although they have known the side effect of that? I'm really curious about this.

[ObscureBean]

Santhara is a practice in Jainism where a person voluntarily gives up water and food and waits for death.
An Indian court has ruled that this was akin to suicide and therefore illegal.

http://scroll.in/article/748119/fasting-unto-death-for-religion-is-not-suicide-or-euthanasia-say-outraged-jains

I never understood what legality or policy or government or anyone for that matter has to do with the decision to commit suicide.  Once you choose to check out, who cares if it's against the law?

I find the way society views suicide to be very strange...as if it's the worst outcome and no one in their right mind would ever do it.  There are tons of people with a level of suffering that is difficult for others to understand, and it should absolutely be everyone's right to end their life if they choose to.  What's the point of going into palliative care, being pumped full of opiates, not being able to function mentally or physically and waiting until your heart stops beating?

You'll understand if you decide to venture further down the rabbit hole  


It seems a lot of people here cannot imagine ever committing suicide, well let me assure you that there are infinite scenarios that would see any human begging to be allowed to take his/her own life. If you can't think of any such scenarios right now that would be applicable to you, you should count yourself lucky and not get cocky

Your physical body is the only thing that truly belongs to you but if you play your cards right you may just find yourself deprived of the only real choice you've ever had or ever going to have

BTW I am neither for nor against suicide.

[darkangel11]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Imagine a situation where you lose all you have in 1 day: your house burns down with your whole family and all your possessions inside. It might trigger a depression and fear so great that you'd want to die and it would have nothing to do with genetics, lack of nutrition or poisoning.

[BADecker]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Imagine a situation where you lose all you have in 1 day: your house burns down with your whole family and all your possessions inside. It might trigger a depression and fear so great that you'd want to die and it would have nothing to do with genetics, lack of nutrition or poisoning.

Imagine, after all that, going over to a green juice soda fountain, and drowning your sorrows in a healthy, herbal juice drink, filled with mega doses of vitamins and minerals and amino acids, etc. (including EDTA which removes heavy metals from your system), so that you come out of there feeling like you could conquer the world. You have never felt like this. You wonder how in the world you could have ever felt suicidal. You are aware of your losses, but you know that NOTHING can stop you from starting over and making things a whole lot better this time.

[Sourgummies]

There are 3 basic reason for suicidal tendencies in people:
1. genetics;
2. lack of nutrition;
3. poisoning.

The desire to protect someone else even if it costs you your life isn't really suicide.

Imagine a situation where you lose all you have in 1 day: your house burns down with your whole family and all your possessions inside. It might trigger a depression and fear so great that you'd want to die and it would have nothing to do with genetics, lack of nutrition or poisoning.

Imagine, after all that, going over to a green juice soda fountain, and drowning your sorrows in a healthy, herbal juice drink, filled with mega doses of vitamins and minerals and amino acids, etc. (including EDTA which removes heavy metals from your system), so that you come out of there feeling like you could conquer the world. You have never felt like this. You wonder how in the world you could have ever felt suicidal. You are aware of your losses, but you know that NOTHING can stop you from starting over and making things a whole lot better this time.

Lack of understanding in how the brain operates in a depressed state. People do not snap out of it like a hypnotist ending a act.

[andysbizz]

I think they did the right thing is illegal, but it is unlikely they will be able to monitor the implementation of this law. If a person has decided to die in this way, it will achieve this by deception like anorexic.