[Proposal] Mining Co-Op

[philipma1957]

Hmm, SP50 just came out. I just sent them an email, lets see if we can get this ball rolling!

if we can get 3 that is 50kwatts

6 are 100kwatts.

if the hoster is GND  I would trust him.

price and time are the question.

the gear needs to be in place fast.

330th = 50kwatt  at 8 cents = 96 a day for power.

660th =100kwatt at 7.6 cents = 182.40 a day for power

GND is great northern data  I have had a talks via pm with him.  He has been doing an honest hosting job as far as I know. (ie never read any complaints about them)

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[sloopy]

I may also be interested.
Please put me on the list and it is the SP50 which has brought me to this conclusion.

[toptek]

Most hosting companies give pretty big discounts for bulk buyers, and you can get small bulk discounts from most hardware manufacturers. Why don't we take advantage of that in a simple, transparent way?

Here's what I'm thinking:

• Pool funds in a btc address controlled by a trustworthy person.
• Negotiate a purchase of hardware.
• Buy the hardware and pay the hoster up front for a lengthy contract (6 months to a year).
• Have the hardware shipped directly from the manufacturer to our hoster.
• Mine at eligius (transparent and public stats) and have the payout go directly to a btc address controlled by our trustworthy person.
• Divide the payouts proportionately every week/month.
• At the end of the term we can sell the hardware or renew the contract.

If we follow this plan step-by-step we only have to trust three people: The manufacturer, the hoster, and the trusted third party.
Feel free to discuss this below!

UPDATE: I've talked to a hoster that's given me a fee schedule as long as I keep their name a secret until we start the buy. I've dealt with them before, and you will know who they are before this kicks off, if this ever gets off the ground.
50KW @ $58/KW ($0.08/KWh)
100KW @ $55/KW ($0.076/KWh)

As for time frame, I'm thinking we wait and see for new miners to enter market from avalon/SP-TECH, so prices can come down to something reasonable.

The one we have to trust the most is the one handling the btc and payout. The hoster and manufacturers in most cases are very trustworthy if you go with ones we know care about what they do and not some new startup out of no were . same for a the hoster .

[mavericklm]

First of all, we need to know price of the sp50...

[Dr Charles]

First of all, we need to know price of the sp50...

Indeed... Would be one of the most important steps haha

[armedmilitia]

I have a question for those who are interested, and it's probably the most important one!

Who should be responsible for holding funds and distributing payouts?

I'm a little paranoid. I certainly wouldn't trust myself with this much cash if I were you, and I don't think my security practices are good enough to be confident in storing that many coins. I use cold storage, but I would be very nervous as a single point of failure. No way can I cover it out of pocket if it gets hacked, and then you and me and a few dozen other people are royally screwed. Plus, I'll get doxxed by some (rightfully) pissed off people!

We need someone who:

• Has experience storing large amounts of BTC, preferably someone who has run GBs/escrow services in the past.
• Has a huge amount of rep--and I mean a lot, and an established presence.
• We know the identity of (so we can have some form of recourse if shit hits the fan)

If you have any other requirements for this person, feel free to suggest them below!

We can do this in an even cooler way, too. We can create a multisig wallet under the control of multiple trusted members, deposit funds to that, and then do a big multisig transaction to the hoster & manufacturer (I can cc you guys in all my email communication). We should be able to get our hoster & manufacturer to sign their messages with PGP so you guys can verify I'm not talking to a sockpuppet!

Then we mine to a single address controlled by a trusted member. That way, there is only time a single person can run with the funds, and they can only take the current balance. We can have a failsafe to switch the mining payout address (set up beforehand) if this ends up happening. To those who have experience using multisig, do you think this plan makes sense?

[Dr Charles]

I think a multi-sig wallet makes absolute sense but still finding people to trust with a presumably $50-$100k or more, lump sum of coins/cash will be difficult given the history of this industry.

[armedmilitia]

I think a multi-sig wallet makes absolute sense but still finding people to trust with a presumably $50-$100k or more, lump sum of coins/cash will be difficult given the history of this industry.

I agree with that completely.

[carlosmnk]

I have a question for those who are interested, and it's probably the most important one!

Who should be responsible for holding funds and distributing payouts?

I'm a little paranoid. I certainly wouldn't trust myself with this much cash if I were you, and I don't think my security practices are good enough to be confident in storing that many coins. I use cold storage, but I would be very nervous as a single point of failure. No way can I cover it out of pocket if it gets hacked, and then you and me and a few dozen other people are royally screwed. Plus, I'll get doxxed by some (rightfully) pissed off people!

We need someone who:

• Has experience storing large amounts of BTC, preferably someone who has run GBs/escrow services in the past.
• Has a huge amount of rep--and I mean a lot, and an established presence.
• We know the identity of (so we can have some form of recourse if shit hits the fan)

If you have any other requirements for this person, feel free to suggest them below!

We can do this in an even cooler way, too. We can create a multisig wallet under the control of multiple trusted members, deposit funds to that, and then do a big multisig transaction to the hoster & manufacturer (I can cc you guys in all my email communication). We should be able to get our hoster & manufacturer to sign their messages with PGP so you guys can verify I'm not talking to a sockpuppet!

Then we mine to a single address controlled by a trusted member. That way, there is only time a single person can run with the funds, and they can only take the current balance. We can have a failsafe to switch the mining payout address (set up beforehand) if this ends up happening. To those who have experience using multisig, do you think this plan makes sense?

Look at this  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg12509531#msg12509531

Another option is an escrow...

[armedmilitia]

Look at this  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg12509531#msg12509531

That's great! Ckpool sounds like a great idea to distribute payouts, they allow % distributions to multiple addresses for big miners. Bam! There goes our distribution problems.

Another option is an escrow...

Yes, the subject of my above post is about using multisig/regular escrow (to handle initial fund collection) and finding the right person/people to do it. We can't just trust some random escrow provider!

[valkir]

I would for sure trust philipma with no problem. Depend of if he want to manage this. 

[torepia]

Ill be following this thread. Would definitely be considering partaking in this ventue if we can get our hands on some SP50's

Me too

Same!

[armedmilitia]

I just got a very personal (definitely not a form letter) response from Spondoolies.  

Thank you for your email and your interest in the SP50. We are excited and proud to unveil our next generation machine as a breakthrough product for industrial mining.

With its extremely low power consumption and modular design the SP50 has been specifically designed for maximum power efficiency and ease of management.

Initially the SP50 will be offered in limited quantities only to a select group of customers. Due to the limited anticipated supply and overwhelming interest we initially intend to discuss purchases of the SP50 with certain significant shareholders, although this is not a requirement for purchase. If you have funding and are interested in a bulk purchase please reply to this email and let us know. If you are a BTCS shareholder please let us know that as well. Preference will be given to existing bulk customers and well-funded projects.

As we scale up production we hope to offer the SP50 to a wider market. At that time we will publish pricing and shipping terms as well as warranty information.

We thank you for your interest in the SP50 and look forward to working with you.

Since we aren't funded yet and ready to pull the trigger, it looks like we'll have to wait for wider availability. This might be a good thing, buying a little later would allow us to see whether or not the SP50 is a steaming turd (No offense Spondoolies, but you never know!)

Also:
I did some reading on stackoverflow on how to actually use multisig, it's a little nitty gritty (done on the command line) but well within my capabilities. I also may end up using armory as I've heard there is a good multisig implementation there. Of course, we'll do some test transactions before we start piling money into the address! The best part is that you can generate multisig addresses without needing to trust the person doing the generation--that means I can set it up without actually having full control over it! I think a 4/6 setup would work best, it minimizes risk of keys being lost (and freezing funds forever!) while also being fairly secure from members conspiring to run with the funds.

Phillip would be a great candidate to hold one of those keys. Personally, I think valkir would be good too. Maybe even me as well.  

[philipma1957]

I would be willing to hold a key.

If we get 3 to 6 of these.

It could be interesting.

[GreatNorthData]

Just throwing it out there, size is efficiency, so if a collective run by Armedmilitia approached us with 1MW, and at least four months notice, we could get something online for $45/kW with taxes included.

[armedmilitia]

Well, that's quite the stretch goal!

61 SP50s (6.7PH/1MW) calls for quite a bit of cash. Some napkin math and price guesses probably puts the total upfront payment over 2M USD. I don't think our pockets go that deep, but who knows.

[notlist3d]

If there is a miner Co-OP just throwing this in there I am interested.   I would need to know specifics.

But I would love even if we set up a Co-Op where we could bring gear to a very low cost electricity area.   And split the cost's to make it affordable to do.  I will keep a closer eye on this thread.  I would like it to be in US if at all possible as I would probley want to visit it and drive my gear there.

Also I do not have any problem with philipma1957 being key holder.   He has my trust.

[sidehack]

I'll be legitimately surprised if the SP50 comes in under $50K each. Buying 22x S7 to get the same hashrate would cost you over $40K, plus PSUs, plus the premium of having about 40% lower power consumption and, if it's like everything else SP has ever released, undervoltability (but this is very questionable given the released specs). $50-60k seems about right, which puts the 1MW cost around $3M.

[valkir]

I had a similar email from spondoolies. So Im looking to buy some BTCS stocks  

Only 0,14$ We could than write to them that we are shareholder.

We could also buy some share together.

Let me know what you think about that.

[Dr Charles]

With an investment that, large 10+ Sp50's, I think it would be worth while to form an LLC or S-corp... for protections on both ends before and after the purchase but thats just my 2 cents

And personally, I wouldnt touch the BTCS stock, at least not yet. BTCS has been operating at a loss since day one. Although, year over year they have managed to diminish the total deficit/year operating loss... it is still far from a profitable holding.