Find Trendon Shavers in person thread... [BTCST, BTS&T, pirateat40]

[CharlieContent]

Does anyone have a clear idea of how much he got away with?

I know that he owed $5m USD, but that included interest.

I have also heard that he took in $2m USD, but surely some of that must have been paid out in interest to people who withdrew.

Is there any chance he might have came out of this with a comparatively small profit? Or are we sure his scam made him a millionaire?

This should be a lesson to everyone that not only is Bitcoin incredibly easy to steal, but thefts actually have little to no legal recourse even if you know the precise identity of who stole your coins.

[DannyM]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

[lile]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

[PPT-PR]

There's also the question of how many people would be able to sue him directly.  Many people gave their funds to the PPT operators rather than pirate and they have no way to actually prove that their deposits were actually given to pirate unless the PPT operators are willing and able to provide that proof.

So what does a PPT operator have they can use to prove they were taken and how much was taken?  1) a deposit address which will show the total of deposits into the BS&T account, 2) the withdrawal address which will show the total amount taken out of the BS&T account, 3) the calculated difference between these two which is basically the amount Trendon took.  Also, if they are lucky or smart enough a screen shot of their account balance before the BS&T site went down.

There are no written contracts, there is no paperwork, there is nothing in writing and nothing signed by anyone.

So, would two Bitcoin addresses and the difference between them be enough to prove anything in court or to the SEC or to anyone.  Would you accept the difference between to arbitrary Bitcoin addresses as proof of anything yourself?

We can do this experiment for Bitcoinmax.  I believe we have their BS&T deposit and withdrawal addresses.  They are in the Bitcoinmax thread.  Bitcoinmax was by far the largest trust account at the time Trendon ran.

So we can calculate the amount of deposits claimed (by the amount show to the last depositor) and the actual amount on deposit (in - out).  This can give us an idea of the ratio of BTC deposit claims to actual BTC deposited.  The "reinvestment" rate.  Then apply this ratio to the entire system to get an estimate of how many BTC were actually taken as opposed to how many were claimed to be on deposit.

[PPT-PR]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

And your opinion is based on the fact you were a PPT operator, right?

[lile]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

And your opinion is based on the fact you were a PPT operator, right?

My opinion is based on what I have read on the forum. I have been a part of this forum for quite some time.

[PPT-PR]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

And your opinion is based on the fact you were a PPT operator, right?

My opinion is based on what I have read on the forum. I have been a part of this forum for quite some time.

From actual experience I would say that less than half the customers reinvested and more than half of them took their interest every three days in the early days, then weekly when the system was changed.

I describe a method by which this "reinvestment rate" can be estimated from the information we have on Bitcoinmax here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120119.msg1331862#msg1331862

From here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83904.msg1302303#msg1302303

We can see that the amount on deposit at Bitcoinmax at the time of closure was: 167728.74239044 + 110.74501165, this includes all interest to that date.

Now someone can dig up their deposit and withdrawal addresses and we can calculate exactly how much was actually on depost.

[deeplink]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

And your opinion is based on the fact you were a PPT operator, right?

Can you say who you are, or at least why you are using a new account and what your agenda is?

[lile]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

And your opinion is based on the fact you were a PPT operator, right?

My opinion is based on what I have read on the forum. I have been a part of this forum for quite some time.

From actual experience I would say that less than half the customers reinvested and more than half of them took their interest every three days in the early days, then weekly when the system was changed.

I describe a method by which this "reinvestment rate" can be estimated from the information we have on Bitcoinmax here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120119.msg1331862#msg1331862

From here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83904.msg1302303#msg1302303

We can see that the amount on deposit at Bitcoinmax at the time of closure was: 167728.74239044 + 110.74501165, this includes all interest to that date.

Now someone can dig up their deposit and withdrawal addresses and we can calculate exactly how much was actually on depost.

I see, I got the wrong impression then, thanks.

[PPT-PR]

Since it seems to have been a ponzi scheme, pirate likely has no money, paid it all out in interest to keep the scam going.

I doubt he paid out much since pretty much everyone has been "reinvesting" as far as I know.

And your opinion is based on the fact you were a PPT operator, right?

Can you say who you are, or at least why you are using a new account and what your agenda is?

I speak on behalf of the trust accounts and "PPT operators"  (of which there are a few different types).  Not one of the trust accounts or "PPTs" that I am in contact with made any BTC and most lost more than you can imagine.  As I stated above some of the larger trust account holders - who lost the most - have contacted the SEC and are going down that path as it appears to be the most promising at this point.

But as I also stated:  at the end of the day what do we really have that can be used against Trendon?  Not much.

[MPOE-PR]

I speak on behalf of the trust accounts and "PPT operators"  (of which there are a few different types).  Not one of the trust accounts or "PPTs" that I am in contact with made any BTC and most lost more than you can imagine.  As I stated above some of the larger trust account holders - who lost the most - have contacted the SEC and are going down that path as it appears to be the most promising at this point.

But as I also stated:  at the end of the day what do we really have that can be used against Trendon?  Not much.

Where are your gpg-signed credentials, Mr. Sock-PR?

[SebastianJu]

This is incredible. Yet another scammer makes it out alive with a lot of money.

Even when he has a million now... what can he do with it? Nothing now i think. Because when he will start to buy expensive cars and similar the tax-agency will come and ask wheres the money from. So at the moment he cant do anything with it. Maybe he will at some point move to another country and spend the money there. But at the moment he maybe is rich... but poor at the same moment.

[malevolent]

This is incredible. Yet another scammer makes it out alive with a lot of money.

Even when he has a million now... what can he do with it? Nothing now i think. Because when he will start to buy expensive cars and similar the tax-agency will come and ask wheres the money from. So at the moment he cant do anything with it. Maybe he will at some point move to another country and spend the money there. But at the moment he maybe is rich... but poor at the same moment.

Did you lose money to Pirate? (how much if it's ok to ask?)

[MPOE-PR]

Even when he has a million now... what can he do with it? Nothing now i think. Because when he will start to buy expensive cars and similar the tax-agency will come and ask wheres the money from. So at the moment he cant do anything with it. Maybe he will at some point move to another country and spend the money there. But at the moment he maybe is rich... but poor at the same moment.

So go buy him some flowers.

[stochastic]

Trendon Shavors' Master Plan, his End Game is playing out perfectly.

He's untouchable.


There are a number of individual investors who would obviously like to see him brought to justice but most of the major players fear unexpected legal and tax liabilities in coming forward.

So unless the SEC is collecting enough information to file civil charges (and who knows how long that could take)

Trendon Shavors has already walked off into the sunset with everyone BTC - and probably  getting ready to scam again.

They got Capone for tax evasion, maybe they can get pirate the same way.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F

[CharlieContent]

This is incredible. Yet another scammer makes it out alive with a lot of money.

Even when he has a million now... what can he do with it? Nothing now i think. Because when he will start to buy expensive cars and similar the tax-agency will come and ask wheres the money from. So at the moment he cant do anything with it. Maybe he will at some point move to another country and spend the money there. But at the moment he maybe is rich... but poor at the same moment.

If he actually does have a million dollars then he could easily do a lot of cool stuff with it without arousing suspicion. It would be a shame to have a million without being able to spend it on property or investments, but he could still do all the fun stuff, vacations, clothes, nights on the town, and pay his rent with it it as long as he can find a landlord who will accept cash (not difficult if you're happy to live in reasonably modest accommodation)

Of course he might also have a laundering strategy, who knows?

[BCB]

He's currently selling his coin for cash in the mail.

[smoothie]

He's currently selling his coin for cash in the mail.

Link?

[CharlieContent]

He's currently selling his coin for cash in the mail.

Yeah that sounds about right to me. I can't really imagine any other way he could get hold of it. He can't let it touch a bank account, at least not in any quantity.

Apparently that's how most of the Silk Road dealers cash out. They get a 500 euro bill in a birthday card on a daily basis.

I wonder if anyone here sells coins for cash like that on SR. The premium over Mt. Gox price is usually fairly large, so I'd imagine someone in the business of selling coin must have considered it.

[BCB]

But he can still use safe deposit boxes.