So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?

[MPOE-PR]

Do you rally believe this?

My bet: Effect of pumping this on number of braindamaged Threads created: = 0.

But thanks for trying   

Yeah, I reckon you're right. Oh well.

[1715418780]

1715418780

[S@toshiDoshi]

Do you rally believe this?

My bet: Effect of pumping this on number of braindamaged Threads created: = 0.

But thanks for trying   

Yeah, I reckon you're right. Oh well.

Thanks for bumping, it helped at least one braindamaged member! 

[SRoulette]

1. Identify yourself to the community. This means, at the very least, creating a WOT account.

Im sorry but We have never heard of a "WOT account" we are unsure as to what it even is, I am googling and attempting to find out.
You say this is required and all bitcoin users look for it ?, could you provide an example please ? none of the casinos we frequent (yes we do play at others) has ever made mention of a WOT.

Im thinking perhaps 1 section of the community puts great weight behind it while the larger portion (for gamblers at least) is ignorant of what WOT is and why its a good thing.

edit: googlfu success: http://bitcoin-otc.com/

Pirate was trusted on WOT, thats was enough for us to dismiss it entirely.

[MPOE-PR]

Im sorry but We have never heard of a "WOT account" we are unsure as to what it even is, I am googling and attempting to find out.

In general a WOT = Web of Trust is a distributed method of keeping track of reputations. There's both a wiki and a help page available for this particular implementation of the concept.

You say this is required and all bitcoin users look for it ?, could you provide an example please ?

For instance, you can't be listed on MPEx without one.

none of the casinos we frequent (yes we do play at others) has ever made mention of a WOT.

None of the food courts you ate at probably asked for your business registration, either. This is because you eat as a physical, not as a legal person. However, once you go on the other side of the counter, and start talking about the business of feeding people, your business registration suddenly becomes an issue. This is in fact what the WOT is: business registration for bitcoin.

Im thinking perhaps 1 section of the community puts great weight behind it while the larger portion (for gamblers at least) is ignorant of what WOT is and why its a good thing.

This is true. The general population is ignorant, and for this reason (among others) the general population is ill equipped to start bitcoin businesses (even if they can do just fine limiting themselves to a consumer role).

Pirate was trusted on WOT, thats was enough for us to dismiss it entirely.

This is actually nonsense. See the discussion of that point here, and consider how facetious your argument is. After all, Pirate was trusted on this very forum, and you haven't "dismissed that entirely" it would seem. Why not?

[nyusternie]

I was interested in giving the OTC Order Book a try, but ran into this? Is this a common occurrence?

[MPOE-PR]

I was interested in giving the OTC Order Book a try, but ran into this? Is this a common occurrence?

That's a new one. Seems gribble (the irc bot) is offline too, so I would guess nanotube has some temporary issue with the server.

Doesn't happen too often, in fairness.

[SRoulette]

This is actually nonsense. See the discussion of that point here, and consider how facetious your argument is. After all, Pirate was trusted on this very forum, and you haven't "dismissed that entirely" it would seem. Why not?

Thanks for replying, this point is extremely valid from our perspective.

There is no inherent trust in a forum nor does it guarantee this "web of trust" which as we have seen with Pirate is no guarantee of anything.
The forums members failed simply due to their greed outweighing their common sense, for such an obvious ponzi scheme operator to gain any trust on a service designed to prove trustworthiness invalidates the service in our judgement.

[Oldsport]

Excellent thread, thanks for taking the time to post it. I've been excited and definitely see now I've been moving way to fast. I'm going to take your word for it and do the 6 month+ thing.

If by the end of it I feel I have something I can contribute that no one else can, then I'll know Bitcoin is the business move for me. Otherwise, I'll just be happy to watch it grow and develop from the sidelines.

[addi]

I have to agree with SRoulette about WOT. I think it's something very hard to scale, and I'm afraid we're slowly going to outgrow it as the bitcoin popularity rises. It may have been effective in an earlier stage of the game, but it's getting outdated pretty quickly now as less of the consumer market will know/care about it and thus businesses won't either

[ruggedman_dan]

MPEx demolished GLBSE?  When did this happen?  MPEx sucked from day one and continues to suck.  GLBSE self imploded and MPEx played exactly zero part in that.

Additionally, the whole bit about WOT is a joke.  Very few people care about, pay attention to or use WOT.  The idea behind WOT is not a bad one, but much like MPEx, the user interface is shit, whereas the user interface on MPEx is complete, utter shit.  As such, nobody really cares about either website in the greater bitcoin community.  I'm not sure why you are trying to push WOT so hard, but whatever.  

The fact that you use MPEx as an example of a "good" Bitcoin venture is rather telling, though.  WOT is only for the hardcore geeks, as is MPEx.  The rest of the Bitcoin community has little to zero knowledge and cares even less about either of them.  There is no way in hell you're going to get Joe Sixpack to use either site.  Citing irc-based identification as a good thing also indicates you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when you're talking about the general public.  

Some of what you've written is definitely true, but you have a very tenuous grasp on the fundamental interaction between Bitcoin and the general population unfortunately, so most of your message will be discarded.  

Took the words out of my mouth regarding the WoT.

[MPOE-PR]

Excellent thread, thanks for taking the time to post it. I've been excited and definitely see now I've been moving way to fast. I'm going to take your word for it and do the 6 month+ thing.

If by the end of it I feel I have something I can contribute that no one else can, then I'll know Bitcoin is the business move for me. Otherwise, I'll just be happy to watch it grow and develop from the sidelines.

Cheerios.

I have to agree with SRoulette about WOT. I think it's something very hard to scale, and I'm afraid we're slowly going to outgrow it as the bitcoin popularity rises. It may have been effective in an earlier stage of the game, but it's getting outdated pretty quickly now as less of the consumer market will know/care about it and thus businesses won't either

But then again the problem with that opinion of yours is that you're nobody and are trying to bring it against the people who are doing this. You don't go around telling police detectives how to catch criminals, you don't go to a drill sergeant and start telling him how to drill the troop, why is this so different? Because the Internet? Things don't work that way. Make a million dollar BTC business and then maybe your opinion will have some weight in this discussion. Until then, kindly shut the fuck up and swallow.

[2weiX]

I have to agree with SRoulette about WOT. I think it's something very hard to scale, and I'm afraid we're slowly going to outgrow it as the bitcoin popularity rises. It may have been effective in an earlier stage of the game, but it's getting outdated pretty quickly now as less of the consumer market will know/care about it and thus businesses won't either

But then again the problem with that opinion of yours is that you're nobody and are trying to bring it against the people who are doing this. You don't go around telling police detectives how to catch criminals, you don't go to a drill sergeant and start telling him how to drill the troop, why is this so different? Because the Internet? Things don't work that way. Make a million dollar BTC business and then maybe your opinion will have some weight in this discussion. Until then, kindly shut the fuck up and swallow.

Sadly, the guy's right.

Also, I think the angle you're approaching this from is not very helpful:

As it were, "companies" that wanted to utilize Bitcoins needed a "seed" of trust that they could base their customer relations on.
Personal acquaintance with someone "higher up" the Bitcoin foodchain who would vouch would suffice at first.
Record of successful trades in the past were a logical next step - the #otc WoT is nothing more than a documentation of a handful of successful otc trades.
Given the track record of some (former) forum members, nothing to rely upon heavily.



Those were the times of "bitcoin businesses" (meaning: you did *something* with bitcoins, you were a *bitcoin business*).
Your business isn't a "bitcoin business". It's an illegal high-risk-trading investment place on the internet which *utilizes* bitcoin.
Were your business (mine, too!) accepting Linden$, it wouldn't be a "Lindendollarbusiness", either.

Bitcoin is a means of payment and of processing, nothing inherently substantial to any business model in and of itself (exempt: wallets, mixers, pools).
Bitcoin, as a means of payment, will not require WoT to thrive.
It will not require the WoT to be accepted as a means of payment by a company which has long before the #otc existed started to build their own reputation completely outside of bitcoin. Wordpress has no WoT rating? ONOES UNPOSSIBLE!

Your pamphlet makes it sound like simply by using bitcoin within ones venture, one would be bound to use the #otc WoT lest one wanted to be swept to the wayside by the market - who in and of itself doesn't give a flyin' rats' ass about your imaginary trustypoints(tm).
In away, it's like reddit Karma!

However many imaginary trustypoints you have on the #otc, I don't trust you further than you I could spit a rat.
Nothing personal, just experience with the sort of venue you run.



(aside from this, much of what you say about "knowing your place and those before you" has its merits, but that goes for anyone in any community, so nothing new there).

[Rassah]

2weiX, I somewhat disagree with your assessment of the WoT. It's new, and it's not really used much yet, I'll grant you that, but the whole concept of a global business without regard for borders or in-person interaction is something that is fairly new as well. I believe as business and trade become more and more spread around the globe, things like the WoT will becoe more and more important. It would be a way for both businesses AND customers to establish an online presence, in much the same way LinkedIn is doing it for employees and employers. I wouldn't be surprised in WoT, LinkedIn, and other online profile sites were eventually merged somehow, even, though with WoT it is still possible to establish a global reputation without having to rely on a real world identity.

[2weiX]

2weiX, I somewhat disagree with your assessment of the WoT. It's new, and it's not really used much yet, I'll grant you that, but the whole concept of a global business without regard for borders or in-person interaction is something that is fairly new as well. I believe as business and trade become more and more spread around the globe, things like the WoT will becoe more and more important. It would be a way for both businesses AND customers to establish an online presence, in much the same way LinkedIn is doing it for employees and employers. I wouldn't be surprised in WoT, LinkedIn, and other online profile sites were eventually merged somehow, even, though with WoT it is still possible to establish a global reputation without having to rely on a real world identity.

Might be, time will tell.
I just think it's not used much *yet* and it probably will never be outside of our colorful community.
I could imagine it being linked to other data (much like you can link your localbitcoins profile to the otc) as *one* possible seeding point for a reputation, but that would have to work both going in and out.


However, I resent the "you're not on otc? roflcopter gtfo!" attitude of the OP.

You DO NOT NEED the WoT to incorporate bitcoin into your business.
Hell, there's boatloads of people on this forum who don't give jackshit about me having a decent rating on WoT - they simply don't use it.

[nyusternie]

However, I resent the "you're not on otc? roflcopter gtfo!" attitude of the OP.

seconded

i held the majority of the statements of the OP in high regard and really wanted to give the WoT a try. i've spent about 2 weeks now (not a lot of time) on the #bitcoin-otc channel (mainly observing) and have made several "attempts" at transacting.  however, i have seen virtually no evidence of how this applies to bitcoin-related businesses (excluding wallets, mixers and pools as 2weiX pointed out -- and i'll even add currency trading / arbitrage what have you).

i absolutely see the value in the overall service (and gribble is VERY cool), but it targets a small "niche" market, when I believe most new businesses will be looking to target the greater population. i will be the first to admit that i am in fact a bitcoin n00b, but i do know more than a thing or two about general business. mt gox's exchange, blockchain.info's api, bitpay's integration ALL seem very relevant in establishing a successful business using bitcoins. even the WoT serves its purpose well, but DO OR DIE, i just haven't seen it. if i'm missing something (obvious), then please enlighten me and i'll be happy to give it another go.

s.

[SRoulette]

Excellent thread, thanks for taking the time to post it. I've been excited and definitely see now I've been moving way to fast. I'm going to take your word for it and do the 6 month+ thing.

If by the end of it I feel I have something I can contribute that no one else can, then I'll know Bitcoin is the business move for me. Otherwise, I'll just be happy to watch it grow and develop from the sidelines.

Cheerios.

I have to agree with SRoulette about WOT. I think it's something very hard to scale, and I'm afraid we're slowly going to outgrow it as the bitcoin popularity rises. It may have been effective in an earlier stage of the game, but it's getting outdated pretty quickly now as less of the consumer market will know/care about it and thus businesses won't either

But then again the problem with that opinion of yours is that you're nobody and are trying to bring it against the people who are doing this. You don't go around telling police detectives how to catch criminals, you don't go to a drill sergeant and start telling him how to drill the troop, why is this so different? Because the Internet? Things don't work that way. Make a million dollar BTC business and then maybe your opinion will have some weight in this discussion. Until then, kindly shut the fuck up and swallow.

Please calm down, you will never sell people on your trustworthiness by throwing a silly tantrum like a child, and the insults ? what are you 13 ?

WoT is insignificant outside of WoT and as previously stated Pirate had a high level of trust on WoT, the service is useless for preventative measures.

[MPOE-PR]

Your business isn't a "bitcoin business". It's an illegal high-risk-trading investment place on the internet which *utilizes* bitcoin.

Sure. The problem is that if that's the set of definitions you wish to operate on the discussion ends right there. GL.

[MPOE-PR]

Please calm down, you will never sell people on your trustworthiness by throwing a silly tantrum like a child, and the insults ? what are you 13 ?

WoT is insignificant outside of WoT and as previously stated Pirate had a high level of trust on WoT, the service is useless for preventative measures.

Listen sparky, there is nothing outsite of the WoT. You may submit to this point of fact today, or tomorrow, or for that matter join weix's party and stay outside of Bitcoin business for as long as you can put up with the situation. Regardless of what you do, it will still be a point of fact. You can't alter that, all you can alter is your relative importance in the Bitcoin space.

Restating the already debunked pirate stupidity is a pointless exercise. I won't even be bothered to link again, re-read this entire thread, find the controlling explanation, read it 'till you get it. And don't worry about being 13 : I'll let you know when you're an adult. Not a point of legitimate concern as of yet.

[SRoulette]

Please calm down, you will never sell people on your trustworthiness by throwing a silly tantrum like a child, and the insults ? what are you 13 ?

WoT is insignificant outside of WoT and as previously stated Pirate had a high level of trust on WoT, the service is useless for preventative measures.

Listen sparky
~~incomprehensible rant~~
 And don't worry about being 13 : I'll let you know when you're an adult. Not a point of legitimate concern as of yet.

Thanks for clearly letting myself and others know you are simply to immature to debate any topic, it is a shame.
If you do mature and gain the ability to calmly explain the validity of your argument points instead of name calling and throwing a spectacular tantrum, please let us know so we can resume this discussion.

Or If there is a mature person available to discuss the benefits of WoT, please I would like to hear your opinion.

[payb.tc]

Or If there is a mature person available to discuss the benefits of WoT, please I would like to hear your opinion.

just pasting this here for easy reference:

WOT   Web of Trust
WOT   Wide Open Throttle
WoT   The Wheel of Time (book series by Robert Jordan)
WOT   Wheel Of Time
WOT   World of Tanks (gaming)
WoT   War on Terror(ism)
WOT   Waste of Time
WoT   Way of Thinking
WOT   Way Off Topic
WoT   Wall of Text
WOT   Women on Top
WOT   Women-Only Training
WOT   Work Order Ticket
WOT   Without Tenure (teaching)
WOT   Wild Orange Thing (metal detector coil)
WOT   World of Tomorrow (various locations)