[BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]

[burnside]

About what I figured, and pretty in line with the way things have to be. While 1 satoshi bids would be nice with higher volume, it can be annoying compared to fewer digits. Maybe something to be tuned per asset in the future? Things that expect to trade around 1 BTC/share have less reason to use several decimals than something trading around 0.001 would (I'm assuming some of the MPEx stuff is around that order of magnitude).

A per asset configuration would be handy and definitely may be necessary in the future.  It's an easy tweak to make should MPEx decide to issue a stock with ten billion shares. 

[1715372210]

1715372210

[burnside]

A couple of important tweaks / changes tonight:

(after doing a ctrl-shift-R to reload the javascript files...)

For everyone:
- The volume graphs on the security pages are now expand/collapse-able.  It will remember your setting via cookie.
- The my orders table with your editable orders on the security pages are now expand/collapse-able.  Ditto with remembering the setting.
- There is now a 0.5 BTC fee for PIN recoveries. (With the exception of GLBSE Asset Imports, because Gmail ate so many of the intros.)
- There is now a 0.5 BTC fee for unlocking the withdrawal address if you permanently locked it and decide later you want it unlocked.

For moderators:
- The portfolio page has a new tab, "my votes" that summarizes all of your votes.
- The voting interface on the security pages is now expand/collapse-able.

And in the "crazy cool developer spotlight" section tonight we have Namworld's auto-updating google doc spreadsheet, using the BTC-TC API.  If you haven't seen it yet, check it out here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0

Cheers.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

A couple of important tweaks / changes tonight:

(after doing a ctrl-shift-R to reload the javascript files...)

For everyone:
- The volume graphs on the security pages are now expand/collapse-able.  It will remember your setting via cookie.
- The my orders table with your editable orders on the security pages are now expand/collapse-able.  Ditto with remembering the setting.
- There is now a 0.5 BTC fee for PIN recoveries. (With the exception of GLBSE Asset Imports, because Gmail ate so many of the intros.)
- There is now a 0.5 BTC fee for unlocking the withdrawal address if you permanently locked it and decide later you want it unlocked.

For moderators:
- The portfolio page has a new tab, "my votes" that summarizes all of your votes.
- The voting interface on the security pages is now expand/collapse-able.

And in the "crazy cool developer spotlight" section tonight we have Namworld's auto-updating google doc spreadsheet, using the BTC-TC API.  If you haven't seen it yet, check it out here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140427.0

Cheers.

I don't like the direction of where the 0.5 BTC fees are going. This is $12.50 in current BTC value, and there's no overhead to actually resetting PINs and unlocking withdraw addresses.

When is there going to be a order cancelling fee? Or an asset news post fee? 30BTC registration fee? Bold letters fee?

Banks and big sites like eBay does it because they're already king and aren't seriously competing with other sites that does it without a fee. Right now, BitFunder is consistently beating btct.co, and mpex makes all these exchanges look tiny. Stock exchanges have the Network Effect - the more users there are, the more assets there are, the more useful your exchange is. What would be a good idea now is building up more users, not disencouraging new people from joining. 

Also, what security is locking withdraw address if you can just unlock it?? 

[Deprived]

Also, what security is locking withdraw address if you can just unlock it?? 

It's no secuirty anyway on a site where you can make multiple new accounts for free, transfer to them for free and withdraw from them for free.  It just stops you accidentally changing it I guess.

Changing PIN/removing withdraw addres LOCK DOES have an overhead.  They have to be manually processed which I'd assume involves some check for unusual activity on the account as well as just verifying that the request comes from the correct email address (which requires sending a token and receiving it back to avoid any possibility of a spoofed email address).  Anything that needs manual interaction MUST be charged for to avoid it being done frivolously.

[burnside]

I don't like the direction of where the 0.5 BTC fees are going. This is $12.50 in current BTC value, and there's no overhead to actually resetting PINs and unlocking withdraw addresses.

When is there going to be a order cancelling fee? Or an asset news post fee? 30BTC registration fee? Bold letters fee?

Banks and big sites like eBay does it because they're already king and aren't seriously competing with other sites that does it without a fee. Right now, BitFunder is consistently beating btct.co, and mpex makes all these exchanges look tiny. Stock exchanges have the Network Effect - the more users there are, the more assets there are, the more useful your exchange is. What would be a good idea now is building up more users, not disencouraging new people from joining.  

Also, what security is locking withdraw address if you can just unlock it??  

Good questions, and I really appreciate the input.

The issue is the amount of time that gets spent doing manual tasks.  It's a lot.  Way more than it should be.  So there needs to be something in place that reimburses the company for time spent.  (keeping in mind the company is not paying staff a salary yet)  Avoiding the fees is easy.  Don't forget your PIN, and don't lose your wallet.  (Or don't lock the address.)  If you think this is anal, check out MPEx policy on what happens if you ever make a deposit incorrectly.  

BitFunder is beating btct.co in total volume.  That's about the only metric I see a clear spread, and a large majority of that volume comes from one asset, a passthru, not a native asset.  (S.Dice)  We're also still by far the cheapest on a per-trade basis of all of the free-to-join exchanges.  I think we've done pretty well doing what we set out to do, which was primarily to help recover from the GLBSE mess and I'd argue that we have a good crop of quality issuers.  I'm very proud of how the issuers on BTC-TC have stepped up after GLBSE folded.

Locking the withdrawal address assures that if you're not using 2FA your account cannot be emptied except to your own address, UNLESS your email address is also compromised, AND that person is willing to make the support request, wait for us to fulfill it, etc.  Not impossible, but I think if we can easily add little security features like that every here and there, then we might as well.

Hope that helps make sense of things!

Cheers.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Ah, I didn't know tr process was manual. Disregard my comments then, that's very reasonable

[Monster Tent]

I don't like the direction of where the 0.5 BTC fees are going. This is $12.50 in current BTC value, and there's no overhead to actually resetting PINs and unlocking withdraw addresses.

When is there going to be a order cancelling fee? Or an asset news post fee? 30BTC registration fee? Bold letters fee?

Banks and big sites like eBay does it because they're already king and aren't seriously competing with other sites that does it without a fee. Right now, BitFunder is consistently beating btct.co, and mpex makes all these exchanges look tiny. Stock exchanges have the Network Effect - the more users there are, the more assets there are, the more useful your exchange is. What would be a good idea now is building up more users, not disencouraging new people from joining.  

Also, what security is locking withdraw address if you can just unlock it??  

Good questions, and I really appreciate the input.

The issue is the amount of time that gets spent doing manual tasks.  It's a lot.  Way more than it should be.  So there needs to be something in place that reimburses the company for time spent.  (keeping in mind the company is not paying staff a salary yet)  Avoiding the fees is easy.  Don't forget your PIN, and don't lose your wallet.  (Or don't lock the address.)  If you think this is anal, check out MPEx policy on what happens if you ever make a deposit incorrectly.  

BitFunder is beating btct.co in total volume.  That's about the only metric I see a clear spread, and a large majority of that volume comes from one asset, a passthru, not a native asset.  (S.Dice)  We're also still by far the cheapest on a per-trade basis of all of the free-to-join exchanges.  I think we've done pretty well doing what we set out to do, which was primarily to help recover from the GLBSE mess and I'd argue that we have a good crop of quality issuers.  I'm very proud of how the issuers on BTC-TC have stepped up after GLBSE folded.

Locking the withdrawal address assures that if you're not using 2FA your account cannot be emptied except to your own address, UNLESS your email address is also compromised, AND that person is willing to make the support request, wait for us to fulfill it, etc.  Not impossible, but I think if we can easily add little security features like that every here and there, then we might as well.

Hope that helps make sense of things!

Cheers.

This is good  for competition and innovation as it drives the different developers to introduce more features such as options and margin trading

[burnside]

Cross post from the Cognitive thread, I realized when stochastic posted this that I hadn't followed up in this thread for a while.  

Does BTCT.CO have automated trading yet?

You mean via API?  There is an OAuth 1.0a API (similar to twitter) setup.  You can query your portfolio, buy, sell, and cancel orders so far.  This is in addition to the standard read-only JSON endpoints that provide complete market data, so really the only commands missing are internal transfer and coin withdrawal.

FAQ here: https://btct.co/faq?tab=tab5

I put together a stand-alone demo app here: https://btct.co/burnside-exchange-client/

It's pretty rough, but you can see how it all works.  You can download the demo app php code here: https://btct.co/dl/burnside-exchange-client_0.8.zip

Should be really simple to get going on your own LAMP stack.

Cheers.

Great addition, I missed when this was added.

Cheers.

[Monster Tent]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

[burnside]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

I think we're pretty competitive at 0.2%.  We're cheaper than CoinBr's 0.5%, cheaper than BitFunder's lowest tier, (Tier 6, ฿2,500+ BTC, 0.5%) and on par with MPEx.

Still, for a large volume trader/asset issuer, I'm happy to discuss options.  It probably makes sense to do some kind of volume discount.  Maybe around 3k BTC/mo we could drop to 0.175% or something?

Cheers.

[superbit]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

Fees are already lower then anywhere else and pretty negligible IMO, but I suppose a discount if you do over 100 trades a month or something might make sense.

[burnside]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

An idea just hit me.  What about zero fees for people willing to subscribe annually?

Eg, for 35 BTC (less than 3 BTC/mo) you'd get a year of free trades.

Thoughts?

[btharper]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

An idea just hit me.  What about zero fees for people willing to subscribe annually?

Eg, for 35 BTC (less than 3 BTC/mo) you'd get a year of free trades.

Thoughts?

Sounds interesting to me, or at least a very standard subscription model, though I'm not likely to qualify for any discount plan myself anyway. Might even be able to offer a 3.5 BTC monthly price too.

Breakeven happens at 17,500/yr ~1500/mo and it could open up some interesting options for small spread trading.

Would you be want to give this to people automatically at a higher break point? Possibly ~2k/mo or 20k/yr and letting them know they could get it cheaper by prepaying?

[burnside]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

An idea just hit me.  What about zero fees for people willing to subscribe annually?

Eg, for 35 BTC (less than 3 BTC/mo) you'd get a year of free trades.

Thoughts?

Sounds interesting to me, or at least a very standard subscription model, though I'm not likely to qualify for any discount plan myself anyway. Might even be able to offer a 3.5 BTC monthly price too.

Breakeven happens at 17,500/yr ~1500/mo and it could open up some interesting options for small spread trading.

Would you be want to give this to people automatically at a higher break point? Possibly ~2k/mo or 20k/yr and letting them know they could get it cheaper by prepaying?

I thought about monthly, but the problem is that with BTC you can't auto-charge anything except their existing account balance and I don't really want people to be able to go month-on, month-off, month-on, etc.

I do think if we do this it'd be a good idea to track volume on a per-account basis in the account info page or something.  Then when a user gets close (or goes over) break-even the system can prompt them for a subscription.

The more I think about it, the more I think this could work out nicely.

[Carnth]

I thought about monthly, but the problem is that with BTC you can't auto-charge anything except their existing account balance and I don't really want people to be able to go month-on, month-off, month-on, etc.

Offer different plans:

• Quarterly
• Biannual
• Annual

Give slight discounts to the longer periods and you are done.

3 months shouldn't be to much overhead, and still give users a chance to "try it out" with out too much commitment.

[btharper]

What about reducing fees for larger traders or for people who provide liquidity ?

An idea just hit me.  What about zero fees for people willing to subscribe annually?

Eg, for 35 BTC (less than 3 BTC/mo) you'd get a year of free trades.

Thoughts?

Sounds interesting to me, or at least a very standard subscription model, though I'm not likely to qualify for any discount plan myself anyway. Might even be able to offer a 3.5 BTC monthly price too.

Breakeven happens at 17,500/yr ~1500/mo and it could open up some interesting options for small spread trading.

Would you be want to give this to people automatically at a higher break point? Possibly ~2k/mo or 20k/yr and letting them know they could get it cheaper by prepaying?

I thought about monthly, but the problem is that with BTC you can't auto-charge anything except their existing account balance and I don't really want people to be able to go month-on, month-off, month-on, etc.

I do think if we do this it'd be a good idea to track volume on a per-account basis in the account info page or something.  Then when a user gets close (or goes over) break-even the system can prompt them for a subscription.

The more I think about it, the more I think this could work out nicely.

That's part of the premium built in, or maybe 1 BTC to switch on if less than a yearly plan and allow people to auto draft their balance for a preset number of months? Though then you run into issues if it goes dry for a month.

It's a different setup, but whatever people want to pay for I figure. May well be something to stick on the backburner if you don't think what you'd want to charge for it given the extra work is reasonable.

It's certainly an interesting idea. I'd be interested to see more people trading in ways that fees make prohibitive, any gain is profit at that point

[Zedster]

N00b question. Is there anyway to move stocks between exchanges?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

N00b question. Is there anyway to move stocks between exchanges?

Between exchanges? No. But if you have GSDPT shares and you want BitFunder shares, PM me (small fee).

[burnside]

N00b question. Is there anyway to move stocks between exchanges?

Some of the passthrus this is possible.  Passthrus on BTC-TC for assets on MPEx I think the operators will transfer to your MPEx account for instance.  Passthrus on BitFunder for assets on BTC-TC can likely be transferred to BTC-TC.  And some of the MPEx assets have passthrus on both BitFunder and BTC-TC, with the same issuer (GSDPT/S.Dice, DeaDTerra) so those issuers might be willing to work something out.  Bottom line is you have to contact the asset issuer and ask.

And there's always trading between users, ala:

Between exchanges? No. But if you have GSDPT shares and you want BitFunder shares, PM me (small fee).

[DannyM]

I've been doing semi-statements with most dividends, but they're in the LTC-GLOBAL thread here:

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,551.0.html

I'm going to have to break down and do some kind of spreadsheet or google docs or something so we have better tracking over time.  Or maybe a new page on the site just for the financial report.

Hi can you link to a post in the 42 page topic on the litecoin forum where the latest semi-statement is please? Thanks.