Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users

[osmosis]

We could also draft letters to both Gox and the Liquidator, asking for an official response from each of them on what they are waiting for to move forward, as we are blind right now to what the hold up is. We could get these letters posted on the blogs to get some publicity.

[disclaimer201]

It's clear what the hold-up is. The liquidator has no power and Karpeles gives a shit about bitcoinica users. MtGox needs all the funds it can get right now just to keep afloat. Perhaps he would have been bankrupt already if it wasn't for our coins and fiat.

[dancingnancy]

It's clear what the hold-up is. The liquidator has no power and Karpeles gives a shit about bitcoinica users. MtGox needs all the funds it can get right now just to keep afloat. Perhaps he would have been bankrupt already if it wasn't for our coins and fiat.

Yeah, all out open positions were supposed to be liquidated at like $11.00 or something.  I almost forgot all about the "cash" I should still have, if that even is a real thing anymore.  Ugh..

[osmosis]

Yeah, all out open positions were supposed to be liquidated at like $11.00 or something. 

Screw that. I want the coins I deposited. Gox has them.

[ninjarobot]

We could also draft letters to both Gox and the Liquidator, asking for an official response from each of them on what they are waiting for to move forward, as we are blind right now to what the hold up is. We could get these letters posted on the blogs to get some publicity.

I wrote the following to the liquidator on Sept 17:

Hi Anne,

In the second report you alluded to the possibility of legal action against MtGox in order to gain access to the Bitcoinica funds stored there.

1) Has there been any progress in this area? If so, how can the creditors help?

2) Is there a date for when to expect the 3rd report?

3) Does PKFCR have a fiduciary duty towards the Bitcoinica creditors?

4) Is PKFCR aware of the fact that DHS has seized 5M of MtGox's customer deposits and that Coinlab is witholding another 5M of customer deposits? MtGox is a huge counter party risk for Bitcoinica creditors given their current situation.

Bitcoinica is a small company, I was hoping that the liquidation could be a more swift affair in the interest of the creditors.

On Oct 10 I finally got a reply which I can't share here because it comes with a lot of legal boiler plate but instead of answers I got a brief statement that every time they write an email it adds costs to the liquidation, which will affect the distribution to creditors.  (... I wonder how much they will charge for that?)

So you better keep your mouth shut and every 6 month you can expect another scrap of information in the shape of a liquidator report detailing 0 progress. Oh and another 50.000 USD please for our service. Suffice it to say that the Bitcoinica debacle has been a real education for me. Faith in humanity has dropped a few notches.

[dancingnancy]

Yeah, all out open positions were supposed to be liquidated at like $11.00 or something.

Screw that. I want the coins I deposited. Gox has them.

No, I meant additional cash from open positions using leverage.  If you remember, that was in addition to the coins you actually transferred in yourself.  There was a spot to mark this for the liquidators.  If you failed to do so, I would contact them.

[dancingnancy]

We could also draft letters to both Gox and the Liquidator, asking for an official response from each of them on what they are waiting for to move forward, as we are blind right now to what the hold up is. We could get these letters posted on the blogs to get some publicity.

I wrote the following to the liquidator on Sept 17:

Hi Anne,

In the second report you alluded to the possibility of legal action against MtGox in order to gain access to the Bitcoinica funds stored there.

1) Has there been any progress in this area? If so, how can the creditors help?

2) Is there a date for when to expect the 3rd report?

3) Does PKFCR have a fiduciary duty towards the Bitcoinica creditors?

4) Is PKFCR aware of the fact that DHS has seized 5M of MtGox's customer deposits and that Coinlab is witholding another 5M of customer deposits? MtGox is a huge counter party risk for Bitcoinica creditors given their current situation.

Bitcoinica is a small company, I was hoping that the liquidation could be a more swift affair in the interest of the creditors.

On Oct 10 I finally got a reply which I can't share here because it comes with a lot of legal boiler plate but instead of answers I got a brief statement that every time they write an email it adds costs to the liquidation, which will affect the distribution to creditors.  (... I wonder how much they will charge for that?)

So you better keep your mouth shut and every 6 month you can expect another scrap of information in the shape of a liquidator report detailing 0 progress. Oh and another 50.000 USD please for our service. Suffice it to say that the Bitcoinica debacle has been a real education for me. Faith in humanity has dropped a few notches.

Agreed.  That's why I think if PC and Ver can reach an agreement soon it would all be in our best interests.  Not to mention Mt Cox holding our coins. 

Otherwise, I am sure these people would face much more of a shit storm if the general public finds out about how this has been handled (in the form of further litigation) - some of these people are "influential" in the BTC community.  Why would anyone trust anything to someone in the past that has acted not in the best interest of the creditors involved? 

All I know, and I don't know much, is that Amir seems to be forthright with what he has been saying.  I mean.. then you get pictures of letters sent by random people containing fortune cookies..derp..what is going on here?  jesus

[Koekiemonster]

I PM'D Roger Ver this week and he told me he heard the liquidator has gotten hold of the passwords to the Gox accounts, so hopefully we will hear about the progress soon. The report is due soon anyway.

[nrd525]

I wonder if they'll crash the market when they sell the BTC? 

[2GOOD]

I wonder if they'll crash the market when they sell the BTC? 

i really hope they dont sell my coins and give me $11 each for them :/

That would be a pity 

[nrd525]

I had been thinking they'd liquidate at market value and give us the surplus from the increase in BTC value.  Now I'm thinking the company owners will get the surplus.   If so, they're going to make a killing.

Does anyone know common wealth law on this?

[rdponticelli]

I wonder if they'll crash the market when they sell the BTC? 

i really hope they dont sell my coins and give me $11 each for them :/

That would be a pity shameless robbery

FTFY

But sadly that's a usual kind of robbery for the legacy "justice" system...

[poi]

Got this 4th Dec after inquiring

The Liquidators report on the progress of the liquidation will be emailed to creditors shortly.
 
Regards
Anne Swanepoel
Secretary
Description: C:\Users\annes\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Signatures\Corporate-PKF-Email-Small.jpg
PKF Corporate Recovery & Insolvency (Auckland) Limited
Level 3, 48 Courthouse Lane | PO Box 3678, Auckland 1140, New Zealand
anne.swanepoel@pkfcr.co.nz
www.pkfcr.co.nz
P:
+64 9 302 0521
F:
+64 9 302 0536
DDI:
+64 9 306 7423

[Koekiemonster]

Got this 4th Dec after inquiring

The Liquidators report on the progress of the liquidation will be emailed to creditors shortly.
 
Regards
Anne Swanepoel
Secretary
Description: C:\Users\annes\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Signatures\Corporate-PKF-Email-Small.jpg
PKF Corporate Recovery & Insolvency (Auckland) Limited
Level 3, 48 Courthouse Lane | PO Box 3678, Auckland 1140, New Zealand
anne.swanepoel@pkfcr.co.nz
www.pkfcr.co.nz
P:
+64 9 302 0521
F:
+64 9 302 0536
DDI:
+64 9 306 7423

They have a different definition of "shortly" than I have. Anyone contacted them past two weeks?

[tbcoin]

I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something

[disclaimer201]

I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something

yes, it seems something is going on, im not exactly sure what, however im okay for them to hold out for good news, like mark giving us back our coins. that would be cool.

After all this time, do you think good things can happen in this world?!

[dancingnancy]

I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something

yes, it seems something is going on, im not exactly sure what, however im okay for them to hold out for good news, like mark giving us back our coins. that would be cool.

After all this time, do you think good things can happen in this world?!

Roger ver has been keeping up on this and maybe is effort is about to pay off.

This would make for an excellent christmas present.

[dancingnancy]

Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back?  We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?

[nrd525]

Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back?  We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?

I think there is a chance we'd get the value in US dollars of the bitcoins at the time of liquidation.  And that there will be a very large surplus amount of money which will go to the owners of the firm.  And that the bitcoinica liquidation could be treated as the type of liquidation where the number of assets is greater than the liabilities.

Think about what would happen if bitcoins went down to zero.  It makes sense for a liquidator to value a highly variable asset at the value at the point of liquidation.  On the other hand, if the liquidator doesn't ownership of the assets until much later - it could make sense to value them at the point of acquisition.

Of course this is all speculation.  We need to some solid kiwi (New Zealand) legal advice.

[ninjarobot]

Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back?  We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?

I think there is a chance we'd get the value in US dollars of the bitcoins at the time of liquidation.  And that there will be a very large surplus amount of money which will go to the owners of the firm.  And that the bitcoinica liquidation could be treated as the type of liquidation where the number of assets is greater than the liabilities.

Think about what would happen if bitcoins went down to zero.  It makes sense for a liquidator to value a highly variable asset at the value at the point of liquidation.  On the other hand, if the liquidator doesn't ownership of the assets until much later - it could make sense to value them at the point of acquisition.

Of course this is all speculation.  We need to some solid kiwi (New Zealand) legal advice.

Nice insolvency that would be. The people that f*cked up would be richly rewarded for their mistakes at the expense of all depositors.

Bitcoinica liability needs to be defined as BTC based.

The 3rd Liquidator report should be out any day now. So far I've been very disappointed in the performance of the liquidator. So I'm not very hopeful.