jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf?

[Jaagu]

jgarzik launched recently a new client - picocoin.
Should I fear about some backdoor in it?

(Technomage: Hyvä, Suomi! Viro on puolellasi! Olen puhunut puhelimitse Jeremiaksen kanssa. Voin olla varma, et Cryptedmemo on turvallinen kanava. Terveiset hänellekin!)

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[Yankee (BitInstant)]

So long as there's an active community watching the code then public opinion has somewhere reliable to get its facts from and to contribute to.

Are you reverse-engeneering compiled, for-the-masses, versions? If not, looking at the code is waste of time.

Thats absolutely not true. The reason for Open Source is for people to read, check, and criticize the code by bringing good arguments for and against it.

If the community feels need be, code will be reverted and miners and clients can chose wether to accept or reject a new update.

In fact, you can read the changelog and see this happend more then once https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Changelog

Ya, I didn't comment on that because honestly I think this thread is stupid. #bitcoin-dev is a developer related channel, not a channel for requesting upvotes on an extremely controversal and political topic article. Jeff gave a warning and followed with a ban. I dont think he 'went berzerk'

However, after the warning, the topic changed to new translations of the Bitcoin software. I think it is completely unreasonable for Jeremias to have been banned for that.

The ban took place 63 seconds after that topic was first brought up.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I think Jeff needs to do what others have suggested and come back under i2p if hes that concerned about things he has no control over.

Rather than censor people on sensitive topics.

We had the same argument with nefario and look what happened to glbse.

[Polvos]

It's really not a delicate situation. His time is better spent working on Bitcoin dev, which is his job, not wasting his time on threads like this.

Maybe his time is better spent working on Bitcoin dev, but now we talk about the time he spent censoring someone who was asking for a Bitcoin language translation. And probably your time is too better spent managing your bitinstant bussiness or developing Bitcoin than coming here, trying to excuse Garzik's behaviour, because matches the "full legit Bitcoin cosmovision" your Bitcoin foundation professes.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Maybe his time is better spent working on Bitcoin dev, but now we talk about the time he spent censoring someone who was asking for a Bitcoin language transaction. And probably your time is too better spent managing your bitinstant bussiness

Agreed. It's 6am and Ira and I have stayed up all night coding some new features. Now we are eating chicken nuggets and I'm reading the forums before I crash in my bed I hope thats ok with you.

trying to excuse Garzik's behaviour,

Oh dear, do you read my responses before commenting?

I'll make it easy.

Ya, I didn't comment on that because honestly I think this thread is stupid. #bitcoin-dev is a developer related channel, not a channel for requesting upvotes on an extremely controversal and political topic article. Jeff gave a warning and followed with a ban. I dont think he 'went berzerk'

ber·serk/bərˈzərk/
Adjective:   
(of a person or animal) Out of control with anger or excitement; wild or frenzied

It's really not a delicate situation. His time is better spent working on Bitcoin dev, which is his job, not wasting his time on threads like this.

because matches the "full legit Bitcoin cosmovision" your Bitcoin foundation professes.

lol what does that even mean? Don't answer, I should not have even started this debate. Your right, I'm wasting my time here.

It's not MY bitcoin foundation, it belongs to Bitcoin and its members. Hence the reason the board is elected every 2 years.

[greyhawk]

...
Are you reverse-engeneering compiled, for-the-masses, versions?...

That's very simple to do, anyone can anytime they want.

Far from the truth. Have you reverse-engeneered any of official compiled versions and compared the code with source? I doubt.

Shouldn't it be possible to compile the source on a similar system, then just check for byte differences between "official compiled versions" and your fresh compile in a hex editor?

[Jutarul]

Jgarzik is quite right in his assessment. The US government doesn't give a fuck about freedom of speech. They sacrificed that privilege long ago for homeland security. If something threatens the US dominance even in an indirect way - it will get silenced or at least corrupted.

If someone wants to promote something like the Iranian adoption of bitcoin, they need to use the unofficial channels.

[greyhawk]

I like your faith in fellow humans, though.  I think I was born without that part of the brain. :-)

That's just because it's late. I get more mellow the darker it gets.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Let me repeat myself, because it seems that most of people here don't get it:

It is also clear that after this topic and "Iranians start to use Bitcoin" article on Buisnessweek, there is no stopping Iranians from using Bitcoin, and hundereds of pages of posts will only make it worse by spreading the topic further into the Interwebz.

**The longer you discuss on this topic, the more Iranians will eventually start using Bitcoin**

(jgarzik should not have censored the guy in the first place, but it's too late for it now)

Streissand Effect is a bitch.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

?? If they're here reading this topic wont they know about it already?

Not necessarily.

Every action you take (like posting, commenting) in the Internet may lead to more people knowing about the issue. The issue spreads faster, and more people learn about it in a shorter amount of time, thus increasing probability that more people (including Iranians) will come across it.

Simple logic.

EDIT:
I believe today it's also called "going viral". And this is what we are doing - strengthening the virus.

[Bitcoin Oz]

If jeff didnt like what was being said he could have simply left the channel.

[repentance]

?? If they're here reading this topic wont they know about it already?

Possibly, possibly not but the problem isn't so much Iranians knowing about Bitcoin as it is services/organisations actively assisting the bypassing of embargoes against Iran.  Discussing it here isn't quite the same thing as making a request on official channels to do something which facilitates Bitcoin being used to bypass sanctions, though.  

If someone were to ask Charlie how BitInstant could be used to bypass sanctions against Iran, it would be really silly for Charlie to even engage in the discussion.  Services and organisations can't really afford to say anything other than "we won't help people bypass the sanctions" without painting a huge target on their backs.  They can't be seen to be promoting or allowing the use of their service/organisation for bypassing the embargo.  

Everyone has the right to determine what risks they take themselves.  No-one has the right to tell others what risks they should find acceptable.

There is nothing stopping those who feel strongly enough about the issue from releasing a non-official versions of the client and taking the risks associated with facilitating Bitcoin's use in embargoed countries themselves.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Let's face it, USA is no longer the beacon for the world of freedom and justice for all comers that it once was ...

... now it is a global empire that rules by fear.

USA citizens, like Jeff, have to live in fear of their militaristic govt. and so such actions that appear irrational to outsider but may have an internal logic perverted by contextual influences we are not privy to ... I seem to think his day job might be with a military sub-contractor, so it is even more understandable in that context. For example, if Jeff, was from communist China we would expect similar but even more extreme behaviour most likely ... removing the context of his circumstances is like expecting someone in a prison to behave like a free man roaming naked in the wilds. 

[niko]

Let's face it, USA is no longer the beacon for the world of freedom and justice for all comers that it once was ...

... now it is a global empire that rules by fear.

USA citizens, like Jeff, have to live in fear of their militaristic govt. and so such actions that appear irrational to outsider but may have an internal logic perverted by contextual influences we are not privy to ... I seem to think his day job might be with a military sub-contractor, so it is even more understandable in that context. For example, if Jeff, was from communist China we would expect similar but even more extreme behaviour most likely ... removing the context of his circumstances is like expecting someone in a prison to behave like a free man roaming naked in the wilds.  

I did not sense any fear in his words, on the contrary. I sensed complacency and even agreement with criminal acts of the US government.

[becoin]

jgarzik  is intelligent, he looks long term, and wants bitcoin to succeed. Some people don't see the big picture.

Bitcoin is not going to succeed if core devs live in fear of being prosecuted for not adhering to US sanctions on any country. That IS the big picture!

[repentance]

jgarzik  is intelligent, he looks long term, and wants bitcoin to succeed. Some people don't see the big picture.

Bitcoin is not going to succeed if core devs live in fear of being prosecuted for not adhering to US sanctions on any country. That IS the big picture!

It's also not going to succeed in the long term if development of the official client and big economic players are shut down for sanction-busting.

It seems to me that there's a section of the community which is looking for martyrs.  If you believe that Bitcoin needs martyrs, then be that martyr yourself instead of demanding others put their asses on the line. 

No-one is forced to use the official client.  No-one is prevented from developing other clients.  Nobody's stopping you from putting together a team of devs to build a sanction-busting client.  The problem is people behaving as though the devs and major Bitcoin businesses are genies whose purpose is to grant your wishes.  There are many different agendas within the Bitcoin eco-system and the only one responsible for ensuring your own is advanced is you.

[repentance]

So, you're saying that just because USA part of devteam is too lazy to move out of USA, it is justified to sell Bitcoin and trust of it's users?

What do you think they should do, all move to an Ecuadorian embassy?  Stop expecting people to be martyrs and start putting together an alternative team of devs who are either already in the sanctioned countries or who are willing to face prosecution for sanction-busting - or are you too "lazy" to do that.   

[greyhawk]

Let's face it, USA is no longer the beacon for the world of freedom and justice for all comers that it once was ...

... now it is a global empire that rules by fear.

USA citizens, like Jeff, have to live in fear of their militaristic govt. and so such actions that appear irrational to outsider but may have an internal logic perverted by contextual influences we are not privy to ... I seem to think his day job might be with a military sub-contractor, so it is even more understandable in that context. For example, if Jeff, was from communist China we would expect similar but even more extreme behaviour most likely ... removing the context of his circumstances is like expecting someone in a prison to behave like a free man roaming naked in the wilds.  

So, you're saying that just because USA part of devteam is too lazy to move out of USA, it is justified to sell Bitcoin and trust of it's users?

I accept no excuse for treason.

That was a masterful troll. Kudos. Couldn't have done it better myself.

[smickles]

<snip>
... Seems to me that it's also expressively forbidden for US citizens to create and distribute currencies, which doesn't stop jgarzik from using or developing Bitcoin...
<snip>

Not right at all. We are essentially forbidden to create and distribute dollars (or things that look too much like dollars).

IIRC, it's explained quite nicely in this

[memvola]

So, you're saying that just because USA part of devteam is too lazy to move out of USA, it is justified to sell Bitcoin and trust of it's users?

I accept no excuse for treason.

Trolling?

No, it means as long as we sit on our asses doing nothing but whining and demanding, we are reinforcing the current situation. Devs don't owe anything to us, nor the world in general.