Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly"

[philipma1957]

I guess it is not important, I certainly am not going to go out and buy a Mobile Immersion Data Center.  Hell, it took all my change to upgrade my garage to a 300 amp panel  

when you do a 300 amp panel do you need new wires from the power company's transformer?

Also does the power company need to upgrade the transformer?

Actually I did a 100 amp off the box outside with no power company needed, but the 200 amp panel after that needed a new wire from the junction to the house but no upgraded transformer needed.  The power company charged me $180 to run the wire, the conduit was adequately sized. Now the electrician charged me $4000 for parts and labor.

good to know. not sure what I am doing next,   but  my home can do more Then I am doing at the moment.

[sidehack]

When I upgraded the shop to 400A three-phase, the utility company didn't charge me to swap out transformers. I did the rest (new wires, main distro panel and such) for about $4000 in materials, including a new 200A 3ph pull to the hosting room, with junction box and subpanels. About two thirds of that was just the main distro panel and bus breakers, most of the rest was a thousand feet of 250kcmil aluminum to make the runs from the pole.

[QuintLeo]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range

 Why do you ASSUME they are using some sort of "standard" tank?

 They DO own Allied Control after all - no reason they couldn't design and build custom tanks to suit THEIR need.

I did not assume they are using a "standard" tank, not sure where you got that idea.  I also stated that I am aware they own Allied.

I guess I am unsure of what you are trying to say in your post.

 

So let me clarify, the Mobile Data Centers with Immersion Cooling that Bitfury has a sketch of on their website cost somewhere around $8 million.  

Edited to add the following: I am not sure if that price tag is with or without miners but I would hope the price would load it up with 16nm chips

 The way you were talking about the $8 million data tanks is what made your statement very unclear - and probably very inaccurate.
 I'm sure there is a lot more to those "Mobile Data Centers" than the tank.

when you do a 300 amp panel do you need new wires from the power company's transformer?

Also does the power company need to upgrade the transformer?

 Almost definitely yes, and "It depends on how many folks are feeding from that transformer and it's sizing but possibly yes, ASK TO BE SURE."

[QuintLeo]

Only power in and data in-out.

Wouldn't be surprised if they had some encrypted version of 4G or satellite as backup connectivity and make sure 100% uptime. The great thing about mining is that the bandwidth requirements should remain constant regardless of the size of hardware!

 Speaking as someone that has suffered through both Sat and Cellular as a primary internet connection, there is no such thing as 100% uptime with those types of connection.
 They're viable in a pinch as backup connectivity, as mining isn't data-intensive, but redundant links of REAL Internet connections (one DSL, one CableModem for example) would be a TON better on reliability.

 When Iridium gets it's new constellation on line, they MIGHT be able to argue with DSL and Cable Modem on reliability (though not on speed) and be in the ballpark on lag, but any current Sat link is guarenteed to have well over a half SECOND of lag at best when it's working, and Cellular tends to have dropout issues a lot of the time unless you're right under a tower, and the towers themselves have reliability issues at times.


 The bandwidth does NOT remain constant regardless of the size of the hardware - but it's low enough even a decent 3G cellular link should have enough bandwidth (except when updating the blockchain) to handle multiple Petahash when the link is up at all....

[kilo17]

The simple fact remains they are not mining with any significant chips (28 or 16nm) in the immersion data tanks.  Those tanks are in the $8 million range

 Why do you ASSUME they are using some sort of "standard" tank?

 They DO own Allied Control after all - no reason they couldn't design and build custom tanks to suit THEIR need.

I did not assume they are using a "standard" tank, not sure where you got that idea.  I also stated that I am aware they own Allied.

I guess I am unsure of what you are trying to say in your post.

 

So let me clarify, the Mobile Data Centers with Immersion Cooling that Bitfury has a sketch of on their website cost somewhere around $8 million.  

Edited to add the following: I am not sure if that price tag is with or without miners but I would hope the price would load it up with 16nm chips

 The way you were talking about the $8 million data tanks is what made your statement very unclear - and probably very inaccurate.
 I'm sure there is a lot more to those "Mobile Data Centers" than the tank.

when you do a 300 amp panel do you need new wires from the power company's transformer?

Also does the power company need to upgrade the transformer?

 Almost definitely yes, and "It depends on how many folks are feeding from that transformer and it's sizing but possibly yes, ASK TO BE SURE."

In reference to the tank being brought up again:
You are right, you win 

Philipma1957- all I had to do was call the electric company and ask to speak to the engineer and told him my home address and requirements.  He immediately looked it up and said they did not need to change out/upgrade transformers. I would say if you are considering upgrading at home it is best to call the engineer and see what is necessary.  For me the engineer was very helpful and gave me pros and cons.

[dogie]

Speaking as someone that has suffered through both Sat and Cellular as a primary internet connection, there is no such thing as 100% uptime with those types of connection.
 They're viable in a pinch as backup connectivity, as mining isn't data-intensive, but redundant links of REAL Internet connections (one DSL, one CableModem for example) would be a TON better on reliability.

I was really referring to if you have to move your DC on short notice and you literally end up with a container + temporary generator on someone's lot and you still need to be able to mine.

[RealMalatesta]

I said the container costs $8 million

I wish they would finally come up with a reliable quote. All attempts to get any information from them were ignored until now...

[one4many]

I said the container costs $8 million

I wish they would finally come up with a reliable quote. All attempts to get any information from them were ignored until now...

It has never been different. The prices also very a lot .. depending if they like your nose or not .. Just a bunch of greedy ppl., they always have been.

[notlist3d]

I said the container costs $8 million

I wish they would finally come up with a reliable quote. All attempts to get any information from them were ignored until now...

I think the problem is people email them that simply have no where near the capital to be buyers.  If only serious buyers would ask for quotes it would be much different.

But now I think they have to weed out the real customers with lot's of backing, from home/hobby miners.   And once they do get a customer like this I have no doubt a NDA is signed to keep their secrets secret.  Which makes sense from being a private company competing against others.

I hope sometime they will move to smaller customers, but I think big customers take first place.... which makes sense financially.  Our main hope is some company buy's bulk chips and releases a miner to us hobby miners I think.  Although I would love if Bitfury did it direct to hobby miners on a miner.

[tmfp]

I hope sometime they will move to smaller customers

I doubt it.

“We decided to not deal with thousands of small clients, because it’s a headache. The headache you get from small clients who are paying $5 is much bigger, because for him $5 is the last money. For a big client, $1m, $5m – it’s nothing because he has another $5m.” 

http://www.logicoins.org/bitfury-ceo-were-not-a-bitcoin-mining-company/

[RichBC]

Not quite sure why everyone is surprised that a Manufacturer does not deal with individual customers? It's the same with most everything else we buy from Cars to Televisions. I assume that Dealers & Retailers will emerge for us to buy from?


Rich

[one4many]

I hope sometime they will move to smaller customers

I doubt it.

“We decided to not deal with thousands of small clients, because it’s a headache. The headache you get from small clients who are paying $5 is much bigger, because for him $5 is the last money. For a big client, $1m, $5m – it’s nothing because he has another $5m.” 

http://www.logicoins.org/bitfury-ceo-were-not-a-bitcoin-mining-company/

Exactly .. greedy f...rs getting more money giving a f... about everybody else.

Sorry for the language

[sidehack]

Well we had more dealers and resellers, but then manufacturers started selling direct (and undercutting the dealers) and kinda killed off a lot of 'em.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Well we had more dealers and resellers, but then manufacturers started selling direct (and undercutting the dealers) and kinda killed off a lot of 'em.

Aye, that they did. Thing is, to paraphrase what was said in the BitFury link above, the Pulbic can be a ravanous mob when things don't go exactly as planned. AM, AMT/Bitmine.ch, BFL and others showed that very well and publicly. By not selling ready to run rigs to the public BitFury avoided all that pain and kept it to themselves and their private investors.

For now at least the only one standing from all that and willing to sell ready-to-run rigs to the Public is Bitmain. Why? Without getting nit-picky about it, a. They don't do pre-orders  (with the public at least) on chips/rigs that don't exist outside of a lab yet like the others did. b. They don't start drumming up interest in upcoming miners before really ready to ship. And along that, also bleeding dry the last stock of chips they have of a family step.

Put the two together and they (Bitmain) are freed from forcing a product out the door before it has a decent chance of working as-advertised. Yes they have DOA's from time to time but considering the huge # of miners they build per run, I'll give them that.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Not quite sure why everyone is surprised that a Manufacturer does not deal with individual customers? It's the same with most everything else we buy from Cars to Televisions. I assume that Dealers & Retailers will emerge for us to buy from?
Rich

Agreed. Just try and buy the latest chips (or any at all) directly from Intel, AMD,etc and unless you are stocking a very large DC, after snickering they will point you to PCMall or such.

As long as Bitmain doesn't immediately crush any thought of building a miner for less than they can sell their next one for, even on a smaller volume scale, then there is still a chance for Something Else, eg the BtiFury chip sold to integrators/distributors. Now we just have to see the BitFury 16nm chip in other hands and running at full speed on full boards.

[KNK]

Now we just have to see the BitFury 16nm chip in other hands and running at full speed on full boards.

Have you seen this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1360038.0 and the files from http://dl.bitfury.com/28nm/ ?
The new chip/miner design is so simple, that even a DIY at home is very easy! That's why Bitfury are so sure, there will be miners available at the end of March, just because there is not much to do.
Do your kids like LEGO? Do you want a LEGO type miner? Just put together the parts and start mining - even a kid could do it!

[QuintLeo]

Well we had more dealers and resellers, but then manufacturers started selling direct (and undercutting the dealers) and kinda killed off a lot of 'em.

For now at least the only one standing from all that and willing to sell ready-to-run rigs to the Public is Bitmain.

 Avalon counts right now, though they don't seem to be repricing the Avalon 6 to keep it at all competative.

 Innosilicon counted 'till very recently (both their A2 Terminators and their Farm Boys, 'till they ran out of inventory on the A2 chips to make those with).

 Very soon IN THEORY, BW.com (which is part-owned by Lketc, so they sorta-count) if and when they start selling the B-Eleven publicly.

 The list IS short, but it's not JUST Bitmain.

[sidehack]

Avalon uses a third-party reseller (at least for orders outside China, not sure about inside) with a MOQ of 10 units. Not openly small-customer hostile, but not exactly friendly either.

I know the A2 is an Innosilicon chip, but is the Terminator an Innosilicon product or built by a third party? Also, pretty sure that's a scrypt miner so not bitcoin (just covering technicalities).

[philipma1957]

I ran two group buys for avalon6 sold 17 then 18. We could do one right now. But pricing is not acceptable.

875 is too high. But the gear is for sale to the public.

Btw bitmaintech is taking money for presales as I do not think they have shipped since February

[NotFuzzyWarm]

<snip>
Btw bitmaintech is taking money for presales as I do not think they have shipped since February

Technically you could call it pre-sale but the only reason is due to their time off for CNY. I see no reason to think the gear won't ship on time. Must be nice to have a gov mandated 15 days off...  Convenient for them no doubt but the units for batch 10 are supposed to be shipping now. I expect to get an email from Bitmain about my 2 batch 10's any day now.