btt

[almwaysa]

@iCEBREAKER

What you call a "gamble with investors' money" is in no way a violation of the Basic-Mining contract. The mining pool and payment methods were not addressed as "require shareholders' vote".
And in the contract under "Organization and Management" it clearly states that:
"Eric Corlew is the sole operator of bASIC-MINING at this time. All decisions not
specifically requiring shareholder approval as per the above contract will be at
the sole discretion of Eric Corlew."

In addition to that, creativx owns 20% of the shares in the company, getting a daily of something like 2-2.5 bitcoins at the current time from managing the company. I do not see him sabotaging this by doing things that reduce the trust of the shareholders placed in him. It is not because he loves his shareholders but it is his own best interest to continue running this establishment.

[iCEBREAKER]

I never said gambling on non-PPS pools was against the contract, just that it was a Bad Idea for several reasons.

Instead of debating the several reasons (transparency, accountability, predictability) you instead reminded us of obvious facts not in dispute.  

Speaking of Eric's undisputed, contractual "sole discretion" it should be noted that after several days of us suffering under variance he has decided to go with PPS, as I previously advised.  

Apparently he had enough of being on the losing side of the Gambler's Fallacy and stopped feeling lucky.  

[killerstorm]

he is GAMBLING WITH HIS INVESTORS' MONEY.

Bitcoin mining in general is a gambling, by its nature, as it is probabilistic.

If you're a sissy pools might hide it behind PPS - fee, but mathematically it's always possible that pool will become bankrupt and won't pay.

You can only reshape distribution, you CANNOT eliminate probabilistic nature of payouts.

And for a Bitcoin mining company it makes sense to embrace the nature of Bitcoin mining than to try to hide behind artificial constructs aimed to reduce variance simply because it makes some people nervous.

[iCEBREAKER]

he is GAMBLING WITH HIS INVESTORS' MONEY.

Bitcoin mining in general is a gambling, by its nature, as it is probabilistic.

If you're a sissy pools might hide it behind PPS - fee, but mathematically it's always possible that pool will become bankrupt and won't pay.

You can only reshape distribution, you CANNOT eliminate probabilistic nature of payouts.

And for a Bitcoin mining company it makes sense to embrace the nature of Bitcoin mining than to try to hide behind artificial constructs aimed to reduce variance simply because it makes some people nervous.

Nobody cares about what's "always possible."  It's "always possible" that the false vacuum will collapse and the universe will implode at the speed of light.

So let's limit our discussion to what's likely, and exclude extremely remote outliers only brought up as a poor proof that 'well, anything is possible, so everything is moot.'

This isn't about how brave you are for avoiding PPS.  Eating variance doesn't make you a real man, or less of a sissy.  It makes you a sucker though.

In fairness to shareholders, and for the sake of asset owners' sanity, PPS is simply a better choice.

Your FUD about PPS pools going bankrupt also applies to non-PPS pools.  They can/have suffered catastrophic accidental overpayments, theft, etc.

PPS does eliminate the probabilistic nature of payouts.  That's why people pay 3%-7% for the peace of mind that comes along with it.

Yes, all investment carries an element of risk.  However, due diligence and best practices will reduce the gambling factor, so there's no reason to add it back in later.

[crashoveride54902]

i like icebreaker and i also like pps for the peace of mind...i started off mining in dec 23rd of last year on slush's pool...didn't really do any math but i was happy with the btc rolling in...then all the bad stuff happening to slush's pool i was forced to look at other pools and i picked btcguild for the pps...didn't like the 7% fee but oh well...now i look back at how much i might have lost due to variance on slush and wish i read n found pps to start with...but not like it matters anymore with the skyrocketing diff. rate...

I trust eric to run BM and i think he is doing a great job...and i'm happy i took all my btc n bought in when i did cause i have doubled my btc thanks to AM n BM...hoping to triple when AMC golden boat arrives but if that doesn't happen oh well i lost 1btc big deal...not happy i had to use 1 bm share to purchase amc shares but what can ya do...i didn't wanna miss the last of the .0025 share price on btc tc...

I'm holding everything long unless i feel i can sell some and get my original purchase coins back and then everything else will be free money to play with...I'm still hoping btc takes off and goes to the moon n then we all rich hoping n praying for that everyday...I'm still feeling great about all this...where else can you turn 1k into 8k in six months without having to do much work? plus it was fun mining n putting computers together.

Maybe BM should find some of those avalon chips n make some DIY avalons that everyone else is doing....we may have 1k btc to buy with...but that 1k isn't doing anything just sitting there...but that is upto him to decide and i'm loving my divy payments everyday from bm

[creativex]

Thanks for the kind words.

While I find Avalons to be the easiest to work with, I'm reluctant to put new funds into products that have significantly lower efficiency than the current state of the art. 

[AngelSky]

Just bought @ 0.46, worth it ? xD

[FloatesMcgoates]

Just bought @ 0.46, worth it ? xD

Not until the minirig owner finishes unloading his shares, I'm waiting at least another week or two

[KSGuy]

There was just a sale at .46  

oh. I didn't see the last page

I hope it bounces back, even with the dividends, anything under 5 isn't worth it to me

[AngelSky]

Not until the minirig owner finishes unloading his shares, I'm waiting at least another week or two

I think you're right.

[dexX7]

Dear dumper, if you look at the books: there is some depth again.. please proceed.

[creativex]

You guys really think the purchaser of the minirig is doing all this dumping? Burnside is currently having a conversation about blocking US investors from btct.co and litecoin global, which would include me. I suspect that has a bit more to do with it.

[FloatesMcgoates]

You guys really think the purchaser of the minirig is doing all this dumping? Burnside is currently having a conversation about blocking US investors from btct.co and litecoin global, which would include me. I suspect that has a bit more to do with it.

?

Can you link to the relevant conversation?

[creativex]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=261235.msg2796687#msg2796687

[FloatesMcgoates]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=261235.msg2796687#msg2796687

In any case, basic has dropped by almost 50% while ASICminer and cognitive have been relatively stable. This can be directly linked to the minirig guy shedding shares.

[creativex]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=261235.msg2796687#msg2796687

In any case, basic has dropped by almost 50% while ASICminer and cognitive have been relatively stable. This can be directly linked to the minirig guy shedding shares.

Pardon? Are we talking about the same cognitive that was 1BTC/share a couple days ago? 99.38% of share transfers are SELLS. That's even higher than bASIC.

http://coinflow.co/chart/COGNITIVE
http://coinflow.co/chart/BASIC-MINING

[bobboooiie]

He might me panic selling some and triggering some panic with him, but who knows . Would be weird it was all him because after all he could get some part payed in bitcoins right Creativex ? Or was that not on the table ?

[creativex]

The seller is getting screwed over just like the rest of us large shareholders. We negotiated a price at .61/share so when people are panic selling down to .13 it's not good for him either.

[KSGuy]

I wish I had a few extra .X's to pick a few up, almost tempted to sell other stocks to pick up more of basic.

[crashoveride54902]

well fraq me...this is crazy that the usa is going after everything btc...damn fed getting scared that btc will replace them

so if BM gets dropped on btc tc.co what happens then? what would happen to our shares n da mining equipment?