btt

[stslimited]

agreed. for the div yield, this is pretty damn appealing. even factoring in difficulty increases. there is a some decent margin of safety (as far as BTC investments go anyways)

I know, imagine doing 30% on margin, or in a collar spread, or doing a collar spread on margin. Easily 100% gain.

[creativex]

Thanks for the confidence guys, it's appreciated.

I'd like to get as much feedback as possible in order to reach a consensus on the direction we should take going forward as far as future hardware purchases go. I favor Bitfury gear due to their efficiency claims and ability to demonstrate progress in their development process. On the other hand I've seen little evidence to convince me that knc will be able to deliver products on their timeline. Does anybody disagree with my take on this and if so why? Also does anybody have any other suggestions as far as which vendor they feel is a better choice and if so why?

Avalon has said they were done with pre-orders and that they were developing 55nm? chips of their own for October delivery. Clearly their reputation has been tarnished, but what's everyone's take on the latest from Bitsyncom?

Also as far as criteria go for hardware selection, my own priorities are as follows:

1) Credibility - Can this vendor deliver what they claim and most importantly can they deliver it WHEN they claim. To date pre-order vendors have a 100% failure rate, though obviously some have failed more spectacularly than others.

2) Efficiency - Will this product be hashing long enough to at least break even in the face of continued network expansion? This obviously affects resale price of hardware as well.

3) Price point - I believe this is self explanatory.

Cheers.

[matt4054]

It's probably not something you want to do because it's closer to daytrading than mining, but buying stocks from other mining contracts ("PMBs") when they are blatantly undervalued and selling them when they are more attractive, while taking the PPS mining profits in between is something that has proved to be a valuable short/mid-term investment strategy as far as I'm concerned.

As for hardware purchase, I would hold the funds until September. We are in uncertain territory right now.

[davos]

It's probably not something you want to do because it's closer to daytrading than mining, but buying stocks from other mining contracts ("PMBs") when they are blatantly undervalued and selling them when they are more attractive, while taking the PPS mining profits in between is something that has proved to be a valuable short/mid-term investment strategy as far as I'm concerned.

As for hardware purchase, I would hold the funds until September. We are in uncertain territory right now.

PMBs are absolutely not the way to go. We will always get better price performance from owned hardware. PMBs are for people who don't have their own hardware manager - which we do.


I think it might be worth considering hedging our current hardware and any future orders with Difficulty Futures and/or DMS.SELLING shares - which I'd be happy to discuss with you (creativex) if you're interested at all.


I'd suggest bM be nimble enough to act with purpose if, for example, the 1st and 2nd Gen ASICMiner blades are priced competitively - having actual hardware hashing is more valuable than any pre-order.


Disclosure: I've recently liquidated the balance of my bM position that isn't currently leveraged. I consider myself likely to re-establish the position in the near future.

[ewibit]

I think it might be worth considering hedging our current hardware and any future orders with Difficulty Futures and/or DMS.SELLING shares - which I'd be happy to discuss with you (creativex) if you're interested at all.

what I don't really understand/belief:
is this real for DMS.SELLING shares?
30d    979.06%
TIA

[killerstorm]

what I don't really understand/belief:
is this real for DMS.SELLING shares?
30d    979.06%
TIA

No, it doesn't take into account that value of DMS.SELLING drops after each divident.

Realistically, DMS.SELLING ROI might be around 10% over its lifetime... Definitely not more than 20%.

You might get higher ROI if you reinvest dividends back into DMS.SELLING, but, obviously, this makes risk higher.

[damiano]

Looks like all the weak hands left

 

[iCEBREAKER]

CX,

I've been drooling over the first-run HashFast machines, especially since finding out they're liquid-cooled.   

Pre-orders do not have a 100% failure rate.  G1 Avalons were spectacularly profitable.

IMO, Bitfuries are great at present but soon to be overtaken by 28nm tech, perhaps by Christmas.

Depending on your power costs and climate, YMMV. 

[stslimited]

CX,

I've been drooling over the first-run HashFast machines, especially since finding out they're liquid-cooled.  

Pre-orders do not have a 100% failure rate.  G1 Avalons were spectacularly profitable.

IMO, Bitfuries are great at present but soon to be overtaken by 28nm tech, perhaps by Christmas.

Depending on your power costs and climate, YMMV.  

that's a whole season

avalons will have lasted for one summer season as well

I am not sure if this is such a downside

as the treasury fund balance will be able to roll into the next hardware purchases too

[JimiQ84]

I say let's wait for the first new vendor and then go his way :-)

btw Asicminer blades for 12BTC/13GH/s aren't an option I suppose

[MilkyLep]

I say let's wait for the first new vendor and then go his way :-)

btw Asicminer blades for 12BTC/13GH/s aren't an option I suppose

Are those prices for the older but overclockable blades?

[AngelSky]

I say let's wait for the first new vendor and then go his way :-)

btw Asicminer blades for 12BTC/13GH/s aren't an option I suppose

w8 and see who is going to die and who is going to win. Then pick the winner.

[JimiQ84]

I say let's wait for the first new vendor and then go his way :-)

btw Asicminer blades for 12BTC/13GH/s aren't an option I suppose

Are those prices for the older but overclockable blades?

Yes, new (non-overclockable) blades will be selling from 18th of august at earliest (probably from 25th).

[creativex]

Pre-orders do not have a 100% failure rate.  G1 Avalons were spectacularly profitable.

1) Credibility - Can this vendor deliver what they claim and most importantly can they deliver it WHEN they claim. To date pre-order vendors have a 100% failure rate, though obviously some have failed more spectacularly than others.

When HW vendors get the money up front any semblance of customer service goes right out the window. While b1 customers did great hashing with ASICs while everyone else was using FPGAs and GPUs it was a one time event on a small batch and Avalon couldn't even ship that on time. Their performance since has been far worse.

IMO, Bitfuries are great at present but soon to be overtaken by 28nm tech, perhaps by Christmas.

Depending on your power costs and climate, YMMV.

Perhaps, but I don't think we can afford to wait that long to add new gear. Aren't knc's 28nm products expected to have a lower efficiency than Bitfury's 55nm products? We'll have to make a decision based on what's actually shipping.

Cheers.

[iCEBREAKER]

CX,

I've been drooling over the first-run HashFast machines, especially since finding out they're liquid-cooled.  

Pre-orders do not have a 100% failure rate.  G1 Avalons were spectacularly profitable.

IMO, Bitfuries are great at present but soon to be overtaken by 28nm tech, perhaps by Christmas.

Depending on your power costs and climate, YMMV.  

that's a whole season

avalons will have lasted for one summer season as well

I am not sure if this is such a downside

as the treasury fund balance will be able to roll into the next hardware purchases too

All the early Bitfuries are spoken for, too late to get that on that boat now.

Difficulty is exploding as they and millions of Avalon chips (wherever they are) hit the blockchain.

One season is OK, but Hashfast's first run Mini-jets will be profitable for two, maybe three or four.

As to CREDIBILITY, check out this glowing Hashfast endorsement from Cypherdoc:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.0

[creativex]

All the early Bitfuries are spoken for, too late to get that on that boat now.

I'm aware of that. However, just as we were able to wait for a review of an Avalon b1 product before ordering a b2, the Bitfury products for August delivery should give us a real look at their products before we have to pay for products slated for October delivery. We won't have to order completely blind like we would with other vendors. Also there's some talk of possible improvements on Bitfury M boards between batches.

As to CREDIBILITY, check out this glowing Hashfast endorsement from Cypherdoc:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.0

Thanks, I'll have a look.

[creativex]

Not seeing an October delivery as likely for hashfast. Their products are interesting, but there isn't any evidence offered that they'll have a chance of meeting their timetable.

Cheers. 

[narayan]

creativex: Are you aware that you're next on the list of SEC?

[Pompobit]

narayan: do you know if you want cheap shares, you need to improve your FUDs?

[creativex]

creativex: Are you aware that you're next on the list of SEC?

Hi narayan. I did not know that, thank your for the information.