btt

[FloatesMcgoates]

Sorry, guy, but I cannot understand this market psychology
Share price is going down and down like asicminer, but why???
If I had a lot of free money, I would buy tonns of basic-mining shares right now, because I believe, it is the best way to invest money at btct.co
I have an experience in investing money at other exchanges, in internet companies and in the real sector of the economy. But I have never seen such unjustified ups and downs.
Sorry, if my English is bad 

People often say it like BASIC-MINING is the best investment ever, but I'm afraid they (and you, specifically) just do not understand Bitcoin mining economics;

Currently difficulty increases at a very fast pace, like 30% each 10 days. This is insane, you have to increase your hashrate 30% just to mine same amount of Bitcoins per day.

Of course, buying 30% more hashing power costs a lot. Currently BASIC-MINING has money to do this, but it cannot do it indefinitely.

E.g. suppose currently it costs 100 BTC to increase hashing power, in 10 days it would cost 120 BTC, and so on. If current reserves are 800 BTC, they will last no more than 80 days.

On the other hand, P/E suggest that investors assume that BASIC-MINING will be able to pay approximately same dividends at least for 4 years.

This means that share price is about 10x higher than it should be. But I'm afraid you people will only understand it in a couple of months when reserves will dry out.

+1

Companies like basic and cognitive where its just an individual buying ASICs to mine are going to crash/have been crashing. There is no way they can keep up with difficulty increases. The only profitable companies are going to be those that can produce their own ASICs, not ones that have to buy someone else's ASICs.

[BitCoiner2012]

Sorry, guy, but I cannot understand this market psychology
Share price is going down and down like asicminer, but why???
If I had a lot of free money, I would buy tonns of basic-mining shares right now, because I believe, it is the best way to invest money at btct.co
I have an experience in investing money at other exchanges, in internet companies and in the real sector of the economy. But I have never seen such unjustified ups and downs.
Sorry, if my English is bad 

People often say it like BASIC-MINING is the best investment ever, but I'm afraid they (and you, specifically) just do not understand Bitcoin mining economics;

Currently difficulty increases at a very fast pace, like 30% each 10 days. This is insane, you have to increase your hashrate 30% just to mine same amount of Bitcoins per day.

Of course, buying 30% more hashing power costs a lot. Currently BASIC-MINING has money to do this, but it cannot do it indefinitely.

E.g. suppose currently it costs 100 BTC to increase hashing power, in 10 days it would cost 120 BTC, and so on. If current reserves are 800 BTC, they will last no more than 80 days.

On the other hand, P/E suggest that investors assume that BASIC-MINING will be able to pay approximately same dividends at least for 4 years.

This means that share price is about 10x higher than it should be. But I'm afraid you people will only understand it in a couple of months when reserves will dry out.

+1

Companies like basic and cognitive where its just an individual buying ASICs to mine are going to crash/have been crashing. There is no way they can keep up with difficulty increases. The only profitable companies are going to be those that can produce their own ASICs, not ones that have to buy someone else's ASICs.

I actually disagree with the forming consensus here. I'm not sure the value of bASIC stock, but I would be quite happy with divs right now even short. BTC rise is causing also some of this apparent devaluation. But bASIC is very well managed to my observation. He has kept up with difficulty increases and will continue to do so at an economic pace. Are you doing the math?

[MilkyLep]

Nobody ever does their maths.

[stslimited]

Sorry, guy, but I cannot understand this market psychology
Share price is going down and down like asicminer, but why???
If I had a lot of free money, I would buy tonns of basic-mining shares right now, because I believe, it is the best way to invest money at btct.co
I have an experience in investing money at other exchanges, in internet companies and in the real sector of the economy. But I have never seen such unjustified ups and downs.
Sorry, if my English is bad  

People often say it like BASIC-MINING is the best investment ever, but I'm afraid they (and you, specifically) just do not understand Bitcoin mining economics;

Currently difficulty increases at a very fast pace, like 30% each 10 days. This is insane, you have to increase your hashrate 30% just to mine same amount of Bitcoins per day.

Of course, buying 30% more hashing power costs a lot. Currently BASIC-MINING has money to do this, but it cannot do it indefinitely.

E.g. suppose currently it costs 100 BTC to increase hashing power, in 10 days it would cost 120 BTC, and so on. If current reserves are 800 BTC, they will last no more than 80 days.

On the other hand, P/E suggest that investors assume that BASIC-MINING will be able to pay approximately same dividends at least for 4 years.

This means that share price is about 10x higher than it should be. But I'm afraid you people will only understand it in a couple of months when reserves will dry out.

+1

Companies like basic and cognitive where its just an individual buying ASICs to mine are going to crash/have been crashing. There is no way they can keep up with difficulty increases. The only profitable companies are going to be those that can produce their own ASICs, not ones that have to buy someone else's ASICs.

I actually disagree with the forming consensus here. I'm not sure the value of bASIC stock, but I would be quite happy with divs right now even short. BTC rise is causing also some of this apparent devaluation. But bASIC is very well managed to my observation. He has kept up with difficulty increases and will continue to do so at an economic pace. Are you doing the math?

It is very well managed, but killerstorm is saying that this will be impossible eventually, which is true to an extend but some variables are being neglected

a) difficulty changes. yes there are periods where these kind of revenue shares act like PMBs due to accelerated rise in difficulty changes. in other periods the difficulty will plateau or decrease, due to exchange rate fluctuations, in those scenarios it will make these kind of revenue shares shine, as well as when the reserve funds replenish

b) the reserve funds. this will dwindle, yes, but during periods of accelerated difficulty rising. Given what we know about ASICs to be coming online, the parabolic difficulty rise can be expected to continue into January 2014. But, this is not an absolute, as difficulty *should* be where it is now, way back in June when Avalon/BFL and the likes were expected to have shipped already. So, given 80 continuous days of ~30% difficulty rises, yes BASIC-MINING will be having an issue with funding expansion

c) power limitations: BASIC-MINING has 50A of electricity to currently plug in to. So it cannot just acquire current hardware willy nilly to expand. By the time this is reaching a limit, it is expected that more efficient hardware will exist and less efficient hardware can be swapped out (or be obsolete by then). But again, this is only relevant in periods where big expansion is necessary

[BitCoiner2012]

Sorry, guy, but I cannot understand this market psychology
Share price is going down and down like asicminer, but why???
If I had a lot of free money, I would buy tonns of basic-mining shares right now, because I believe, it is the best way to invest money at btct.co
I have an experience in investing money at other exchanges, in internet companies and in the real sector of the economy. But I have never seen such unjustified ups and downs.
Sorry, if my English is bad  

People often say it like BASIC-MINING is the best investment ever, but I'm afraid they (and you, specifically) just do not understand Bitcoin mining economics;

Currently difficulty increases at a very fast pace, like 30% each 10 days. This is insane, you have to increase your hashrate 30% just to mine same amount of Bitcoins per day.

Of course, buying 30% more hashing power costs a lot. Currently BASIC-MINING has money to do this, but it cannot do it indefinitely.

E.g. suppose currently it costs 100 BTC to increase hashing power, in 10 days it would cost 120 BTC, and so on. If current reserves are 800 BTC, they will last no more than 80 days.

On the other hand, P/E suggest that investors assume that BASIC-MINING will be able to pay approximately same dividends at least for 4 years.

This means that share price is about 10x higher than it should be. But I'm afraid you people will only understand it in a couple of months when reserves will dry out.

+1

Companies like basic and cognitive where its just an individual buying ASICs to mine are going to crash/have been crashing. There is no way they can keep up with difficulty increases. The only profitable companies are going to be those that can produce their own ASICs, not ones that have to buy someone else's ASICs.

I actually disagree with the forming consensus here. I'm not sure the value of bASIC stock, but I would be quite happy with divs right now even short. BTC rise is causing also some of this apparent devaluation. But bASIC is very well managed to my observation. He has kept up with difficulty increases and will continue to do so at an economic pace. Are you doing the math?

It is very well managed, but killerstorm is saying that this will be impossible eventually, which is true to an extend but some variables are being neglected

a) difficulty changes. yes there are periods where these kind of revenue shares act like PMBs due to accelerated rise in difficulty changes. in other periods the difficulty will plateau or decrease, due to exchange rate fluctuations, in those scenarios it will make these kind of revenue shares shine, as well as when the reserve funds replenish

b) the reserve funds. this will dwindle, yes, but during periods of accelerated difficulty rising. Given what we know about ASICs to be coming online, the parabolic difficulty rise can be expected to continue into January 2014. But, this is not an absolute, as difficulty *should* be where it is now, way back in June when Avalon/BFL and the likes were expected to have shipped already. So, given 80 continuous days of ~30% difficulty rises, yes BASIC-MINING will be having an issue with funding expansion

This is yet to be seen. As far as I can tell, the USD barrier is lowering constantly and I am not at all concerned with the reserve at this time. The rise will platue at some point, or many companies will be revealed to be scams or BFL folks.

c) power limitations: BASIC-MINING has 50A of electricity to currently plug in to. So it cannot just acquire current hardware willy nilly to expand. By the time this is reaching a limit, it is expected that more efficient hardware will exist and less efficient hardware can be swapped out (or be obsolete by then). But again, this is only relevant in periods where big expansion is necessary

Hosted facilities - etc. There are options to avoid the lack of power. Server storage where cooling and power are redundant? Etc..






[/quote]

[creativex]

I believe it to be a mistake to assume that just because a company can develop their own chips that they'll be able to deploy them expeditiously, and we all know how quickly things move in this space. There's only one ASICMiner for a reason, and even the bluest of blue chip BTC companies has been losing share of the global network for some time now and their share price has been going with it. I find it odd that people believe the companies currently hoping to emulate ASICMiner's impressive performance won't experience the same difficulties. The companies with the best performing share prices at this time in the mining space are the very same companies that haven't had the weight of expectations placed upon them...yet.

Also much of what was mentioned above ignored the fact that the rapid growth in network hashrate is also dramatically lowering the cost of mining gear. 400Gh/s for October delivery from bitfury is currently 73.22BTCs and it could well be overpriced, yet bASIC-Mining currently has the resources to purchase 11 such 400Gh/s kits.

Cheers.

[bobboooiie]

Well I have to agree the drop of share price was probably expected and normal to what is happening in mining right now. And however good (and probably best) run this asset is, it is still a huge gamble which ASIC company you buy from. And things are moving so insanely fast just today there was 1PT mine announced

[BitCoiner2012]

I believe it to be a mistake to assume that just because a company can develop their own chips that they'll be able to deploy them expeditiously, and we all know how quickly things move in this space. There's only one ASICMiner for a reason, and even the bluest of blue chip BTC companies has been losing share of the global network for some time now and their share price has been going with it. I find it odd that people believe the companies currently hoping to emulate ASICMiner's impressive performance won't experience the same difficulties. The companies with the best performing share prices at this time in the mining space are the very same companies that haven't had the weight of expectations placed upon them...yet.

Also much of what was mentioned above ignored the fact that the rapid growth in network hashrate is also dramatically lowering the cost of mining gear. 400Gh/s for October delivery from bitfury is currently 73.22BTCs and it could well be overpriced, yet bASIC-Mining currently has the resources to purchase 11 such 400Gh/s kits.

Cheers.

The bottom point was one I tried to imply, I agree completely..

[AngelSky]

Why BM shareprice is dropping ?

1) Actually, no one knows who is going to win the aisic_mining race.
2) The inside world of btct: too many new IPOs, too many companies, not enough investors for all this.
3) Actual context: Labcoin, is draining a lot of BTCs right now.
4) All other factors I've forgotten.

Even if the price is dropping, BM is still the best (IMO) company on btct. Always driven by logical decisions and this may payoff some day. This does not mean people should buy or sell. These kind of choices should be done with a proper reading of the market.

[BitCoiner2012]

Why BM shareprice is dropping ?

1) Actually, no one knows who is going to win the aisic_mining race.
2) The inside world of btct: too many new IPOs, too many companies, not enough investors for all this.
3) Actual context: Labcoin, is draining a lot of BTCs right now.
4) All other factors I've forgotten.

Even if the price is dropping, BM is still the best (IMO) company on btct. Always driven by logical decisions and this may payoff some day. This does not mean people should buy or sell. These kind of choices should be done with a proper reading of the market.

Reasonable assessment.

[MilkyLep]

Patience is a virtue yet time is of the essence.

How do we manage the two? Many stocks are "tanking" now, yet twice as many companies are offering efficient next generation machines.

I'd be interested to hear if creativex has reconsidered using a fraction of the reinvestment fund as part of a hedging/investment portfolio.

I respect the many "cloud-hashing" startup programs hoping to bring terahashes (+-1TH) online in the coming months, but $1-7 million is a high sum to place on a sole ASIC producer, even with "buyer protection."

bASIC-Mining is positioned to acquire readily available next generation hardware upon deployment. Has BTCland learned nothing from pre-orders?

[BitCoiner2012]

Patience is a virtue yet time is of the essence.

How do we manage the two? Many stocks are "tanking" now, yet twice as many companies are offering efficient next generation machines.

I'd be interested to hear if creativex has reconsidered using a fraction of the reinvestment fund as part of a hedging/investment portfolio.

I respect the many "cloud-hashing" startup programs hoping to bring terahashes (+-1TH) online in the coming months, but $1-7 million is a high sum to place on a sole ASIC producer, even with "buyer protection."

bASIC-Mining is positioned to acquire readily available next generation hardware upon deployment. Has BTCland learned nothing from pre-orders?

And it is this approach and war chest that make bASIC so solid in my mind. It's no question for me..

[stslimited]

Patience is a virtue yet time is of the essence.

exactly, this is compounded by the fact that we are talking about the live share prices on a Saturday

things move fast here, in comparison, trading sessions most other non-bitcoin stock exchanges are only 8 hours a day

[creativex]

I'd be interested to hear if creativex has reconsidered using a fraction of the reinvestment fund as part of a hedging/investment portfolio.

I'd consider re-opening a position in AM-PT shares at these levels with a portion of our fund. There are no other investments that have both the liquidity and track record. Also, as before, I like the unique situation with AM-PT which requires us to trust only one more person...friedcat.

Thoughts? Concerns?

[TMAN]

personally I would think to put a small amount into the new IPO's. it wont hurt saying you are a shareholder when they release the tin.

[BitCoiner2012]

I'd be interested to hear if creativex has reconsidered using a fraction of the reinvestment fund as part of a hedging/investment portfolio.

I'd consider re-opening a position in AM-PT shares at these levels with a portion of our fund. There are no other investments that have both the liquidity and track record. Also, as before, I like the unique situation with AM-PT which requires us to trust only one more person...friedcat.

Thoughts? Concerns?

Diversification never hurts. I agree with that assessment in general.

What was bASIC @ IPO?

[shandafa]

What happened today?
Lowest dividends since a month 

Today: 0.000147 (queued)
Yesterday: 0.000190

[creativex]

What happened today?
Lowest dividends since a month 

Today: 0.000147 (queued)
Yesterday: 0.000190

Hi shandafa. Difficulty went up 29.4%.

[shandafa]

Ah, thanks!
Somehow I thought difficulty change occurs tomorrow.

[creativex]

I'd be interested to hear if creativex has reconsidered using a fraction of the reinvestment fund as part of a hedging/investment portfolio.

I'd consider re-opening a position in AM-PT shares at these levels with a portion of our fund. There are no other investments that have both the liquidity and track record. Also, as before, I like the unique situation with AM-PT which requires us to trust only one more person...friedcat.

Thoughts? Concerns?

Diversification never hurts. I agree with that assessment in general.

What was bASIC @ IPO?

Hi BitCoiner2012. bASIC's IPO price was .33, though that price was pre 10:1 split.