btt

[Carnth]

Sell now? Get those last few Bitcoins back before it drops even more? What to do?

should i sold some? or keep watching?

Please read this:

Can someone explain me about the price of shares?
...
Basic-mining is stable company with stable divident payments, so what does really influence share prices?

The market is made up of people. And people are influenced by a number of factors. Usually, greed and fear.
So, to honestly answer your question: No one can tell you exactly why the shares are priced the way they are.

Past examples:

Lately, the price has been going down. This is mostly due to so many new companies offering shares for the first time (IPOs). People want to "get in on the ground floor and ride it up." In order to get funds to do this, they sell shares they have in existing companies (like bASIC-MINING). As more people sell, the price goes lower and lower. Is it gambling? Sure, but it's also investing... high risk investing, but investing. (Greed)

The price of bASIC-MINING has also sharply risen when creativex announced new equipment added to the asset. This makes sense as more equipment means more dividends. (Greed)

The price tanked when there was a hint of chance that the US government would introduce regulation. (Fear) This blew over and the market gradually recovered. (Mostly)

Don't let greed and fear drive your investment decisions.

Stop. Breathe. Think.

Do I need the BTC right now?
Look at the past work that creativex has done. Do you think he will do a good job in the future?

These should be the questions that you ask.

[creativex]

Our share price is being driven by market sentiment and not fundamentals within the company. Even when we outpace the rate of network expansion it doesn't prop up the share price it merely increases our yield. Prevailing sentiment is that small mining companies and individual miners will be unable to compete in the near future. That I personally believe they're mistaken doesn't matter. I will continue to focus my efforts on the things within my sphere of influence.
 
Cheers.

If anything, IMO, time to buy more.

Bring that average down and when it goes back up (it will), you'll be pleased. bASIC has to be one of the best run outfit, large capital reserves, competent management both in terms of technicality and financial reality.

The dividends talk.

I agree, some more equipment would be nice.

I for one, would also be fine if bASIC took 10-20% off my dividend so that it's a 50/50 split between dividends and purchasing new equipment. I think in the long run that may increase dividends and if they ever went back to the 70% they are now, that would make even higher dividends.

But again, not sure if you want to do that and not sure what other shareholders think.

Hi guitarplinker. The thing is it's not a question of resources at this time. We're sitting on over 775BTC precisely 776.5493 in reserves right now. This is enough to obtain nearly 14Th/s in pre-ordered gear from cointerra for December delivery or 4.8Th/s from bitfury for October delivery at current exchange rates(bitstamp). The problem is the same as it's been since spring/summer of 2012, and that is that locking in our funds for unproven vaporware with lead times measured in months(or years) is unwise. It's even worse than it appears because we'd also be locking in an exchange rate. An exchange rate which btw is rapidly climbing in our favor. We also cannot run out and load up on currently available hardware that's soon to be obsolete because we may or may not ever see a return on that investment. A couple such mistakes could cripple us going forward. It's my belief that when things are moving so quickly that the future is nearly impossible to predict with any level of confidence then the correct play is to shorten your scope substantially. That is, reduce risk by sticking to decisions with outcomes that can be predicted with some measure of confidence.



That's btc-e, bitstamp and gox are higher. bASIC-Mining has 775+BTC precisely 776.5493 of capital in reserves and another 10% more in highly liquid securities. Together these assets represent more than 7% of bASIC-Mining's net worth and it's rapidly increasing even while we pile up more every day in our growth fund. Also the rising exchange rate ensures that our aging equipment will be online longer so that we may continue to pile up more reserves going forward. Given all this shouldn't the share price of bASIC-Mining be trending upward? If no, then why not?

While I'm generally hesitant to engage in protracted discussions about share prices of my own securities, I think it's pretty clear the market is currently punishing the shares of mining companies, successfully managed or otherwise.

Cheers.

Edit: Added specific quantities.

[JimiQ84]

Whole BTC world is in great uncertainty. I guess dust will settle early next year, probably by end of february. Pre-orders will be delivered, scams unfolded and bASIC MINING will choose the best vendor for going forward :-) We just have to wait out that six months while steadily gathering more coins in reinvesment fund

[lano1106]

Concerning the share price, another way to see it is to price Basic-Mining in USD

Was worth 0.33 at 90USD/BTC so one share = 29.7 USD

Now is worth 0.2 at 125 USD/BTC so one share = 25 USD.

See it is much more stable than it appears.

[creativex]

Those that have held since IPO have seen their number of shares increase 10 fold via the stock split and have also received roughly 33% of their original purchase price back in dividends all while liquidity has increased significantly. I daresay we've been among the best performing assets on btct.co long term.

Cheers.

[creativex]

-snip-

This news comes after knc announced significantly lower prices for November delivery. We know too that ASICMiner is prepping their gen2 blades for Q4 deployment/delivery and Avalon has announced a gen2 product for October delivery(no pre-orders). I believe we're in a position to benefit handsomely by staying the course and letting this price war play out while piling up funds with the not insignificant hardware we currently have hashing for us. We can then make a much more informed decision without needlessly locking in a price and exchange rate that may prove unfavorable down the road.
-snip-

I couldn't agree more. On another note, I had a stroke of genius last night ^{(or was it futility?)} that I plan to mull over at work tonight before I share the idea with you creativex.

This is the last I've heard about your stroke sir, I trust Friday finds you well.

[BitCoiner2012]

The truth is I bought many shares at 0.48 and get some at 0.31. after drop, i think it is the time to rise. so i bought more at 0.22.  now it is 0.18.    i nearly loss 47 btc for this investment.

should i sold some? or keep watching?

Buy 30% invrements all the way down, .2, .15.. etc. Brings overall average of cost down and it WILL be worth it.

[Ytterbium]

And in the meantime the price per share just goes down and down and every day i'm telling myself i'm gonna wait for it to go back up before i sell so i won't have a massive loss. And every day my loss gets bigger
Not blaming anyone but myself here by the way. The price just went up with every miner they bought. Till i bought shares and that day it stopped and went down.
It's just quite frustrating.
Sell now? Get those last few Bitcoins back before it drops even more? What to do?

Lol, says the guy who wanted to flip labcoin and then bitched because he couldn't get IPO shares.  Could have got some at 0.0016 and more then doubled your money by now.

Buy 30% invrements all the way down, .2, .15.. etc. Brings overall average of cost down and it WILL be worth it.

Not if it goes to zero.   Sell everything and buy LABCOIN.

We're sitting on over 775BTC precisely 776.5493 in reserves right now. This is enough to obtain nearly 14Th/s in pre-ordered gear from cointerra for December delivery or 4.8Th/s from bitfury for October delivery at current exchange rates(bitstamp). The problem is the same as it's been since spring/summer of 2012, and that is that locking in our funds for unproven vaporware with lead times measured in months(or years) is unwise. It's even worse than it appears because we'd also be locking in an exchange rate. An exchange rate which btw is rapidly climbing in our favor. We also cannot run out and load up on currently available hardware that's soon to be obsolete because we may or may not ever see a return on that investment.

Buying ASICs retail is a suckers bet at this point, absolutely.   Take half your reserves and buy LABCOIN shares.

And anyway, typically if a company doesn't know what to do with money it should return it to investors as a dividend.

[guitarplinker]

I read somewhere that somebody thinks only mining bonds such as this one with ties to ASIC companies such as Bitfury will survive the following difficulty waves in the next 3 months or so. Not sure if that's completely true, but it got me thinking a couple of things:

Creativex if you have time to answer I'd appreciate it.

1.) Does bASIC have any affiliation with chip makers such as Bitfury so that bASIC can get equipment with faster speeds and lower power usage online quicker than other bonds?
2.) Is bASIC planning to purchase any KnC miners once they're released to the public and people start selling them used? Or, does bASIC have any kNC pre-orders waiting for delivery already?

Just my daily couple of questions.  Gotta keep creativex on his toes somehow! 

[creativex]

We're sitting on over 775BTC precisely 776.5493 in reserves right now. This is enough to obtain nearly 14Th/s in pre-ordered gear from cointerra for December delivery or 4.8Th/s from bitfury for October delivery at current exchange rates(bitstamp). The problem is the same as it's been since spring/summer of 2012, and that is that locking in our funds for unproven vaporware with lead times measured in months(or years) is unwise. It's even worse than it appears because we'd also be locking in an exchange rate. An exchange rate which btw is rapidly climbing in our favor. We also cannot run out and load up on currently available hardware that's soon to be obsolete because we may or may not ever see a return on that investment.

Buying ASICs retail is a suckers bet at this point, absolutely.   Take half your reserves and buy LABCOIN shares.

And anyway, typically if a company doesn't know what to do with money it should return it to investors as a dividend.

Odd that so many used to fret about centralization of the global hashrate. "OMG BTCGuild is at 190Th/s; OMG AM has 30% of the entire network they MUST be stopped!" Yet now so many seem fine with just a few companies running off all the chips they can and pushing every small and medium sized operation off the blockchain. Retail purchases have been a suckers bet because of fraud perpetrated by vendors. What makes so many believe that the upcoming crop of vendors with mining operations are so much more trustworthy?

Labcoin is a high risk investment. It would be irresponsible of me to risk a significant portion of our resources on such a venture. Beginning deployment of 130nm technology in September of 2013(hopefully) with 65nm in wide use and silly efficient 55nm technology shipping now won't give LC any margin for error. They'll need to get their chips hashing quickly and almost immediately begin replacing them with their 65nm chips when developed. The rewards for investors could be significant, that's why I took a stake, but I think many tend to ignore the associated risks.

[creativex]

I read somewhere that somebody thinks only mining bonds such as this one with ties to ASIC companies such as Bitfury will survive the following difficulty waves in the next 3 months or so. Not sure if that's completely true, but it got me thinking a couple of things:

Creativex if you have time to answer I'd appreciate it.

1.) Does bASIC have any affiliation with chip makers such as Bitfury so that bASIC can get equipment with faster speeds and lower power usage online quicker than other bonds?
2.) Is bASIC planning to purchase any KnC miners once they're released to the public and people start selling them used? Or, does bASIC have any kNC pre-orders waiting for delivery already?

Just my daily couple of questions.  Gotta keep creativex on his toes somehow! 

Hi guitarplinker. We're in uncharted territory, nobody knows what's going to happen with any certainty and if someone insists they do know...well...they're wrong or they have a crystal ball.

1) I've worked toward bulk pricing/preferential treatment with vendors in the past and will do so in the future.
2) We do not have any pre-orders with anyone at this time. Pre-orders have been fairly toxic for mining companies. I'm keeping abreast of knc's progress, but with so many vendors looking to ship in Q4 I can't say who's gear we'll end up with at this point. As bitfury's chips are substantially more efficient than knc's, all else being equal then we'd surely be better off with bitfury gear as it should remain profitable longer.

[Ytterbium]

Odd that so many used to fret about centralization of the global hashrate. "OMG BTCGuild is at 190Th/s; OMG AM has 30% of the entire network they MUST be stopped!" Yet now so many seem fine with just a few companies running off all the chips they can and pushing every small and medium sized operation off the blockchain. Retail purchases have been a suckers bet because of fraud perpetrated by vendors. What makes so many believe that the upcoming crop of vendors with mining operations are so much more trustworthy?

I'd be happy if all these vendors disappeared and the hashrate stopped increasing.  But that doesn't mean I'm going to make an investment on the assumption that it will happen.

Labcoin is a high risk investment. It would be irresponsible of me to risk a significant portion of our resources on such a venture. Beginning deployment of 130nm technology in September of 2013(hopefully) with 65nm in wide use and silly efficient 55nm technology shipping now won't give LC any margin for error. They'll need to get their chips hashing quickly and almost immediately begin replacing them with their 65nm chips when developed. The rewards for investors could be significant, that's why I took a stake, but I think many tend to ignore the associated risks.

It's lower risk then buying mining equipment from retailers that will never ROI if they all deliver (other then over a few years if you live in a cheap electricity area)

[creativex]

I'd rather have the bulk of my investments in select gear purchases from vendors that have proven they can perform. This allows me some measure of control over my investment and virtually guarantees something comes back. LC could in one post make their shares virtually worthless. Imagine "Oh crap every time we power up a hashing engine it melts into glass."

[ShroomsKit]

And in the meantime the price per share just goes down and down and every day i'm telling myself i'm gonna wait for it to go back up before i sell so i won't have a massive loss. And every day my loss gets bigger
Not blaming anyone but myself here by the way. The price just went up with every miner they bought. Till i bought shares and that day it stopped and went down.
It's just quite frustrating.
Sell now? Get those last few Bitcoins back before it drops even more? What to do?

Lol, says the guy who wanted to flip labcoin and then bitched because he couldn't get IPO shares.  Could have got some at 0.0016 and more then doubled your money by now.

Buy 30% invrements all the way down, .2, .15.. etc. Brings overall average of cost down and it WILL be worth it.

Not if it goes to zero.   Sell everything and buy LABCOIN.

We're sitting on over 775BTC precisely 776.5493 in reserves right now. This is enough to obtain nearly 14Th/s in pre-ordered gear from cointerra for December delivery or 4.8Th/s from bitfury for October delivery at current exchange rates(bitstamp). The problem is the same as it's been since spring/summer of 2012, and that is that locking in our funds for unproven vaporware with lead times measured in months(or years) is unwise. It's even worse than it appears because we'd also be locking in an exchange rate. An exchange rate which btw is rapidly climbing in our favor. We also cannot run out and load up on currently available hardware that's soon to be obsolete because we may or may not ever see a return on that investment.

Buying ASICs retail is a suckers bet at this point, absolutely.   Take half your reserves and buy LABCOIN shares.

And anyway, typically if a company doesn't know what to do with money it should return it to investors as a dividend.

Oh god this shit again. Yes i was pissed off because i sent my coins to buy the ipo and because of a glitch on their end they didn't receive it. Instead of saying sorry and we'll see what we can do to work something out they basically told me to piss off.
Don't act as if you wouldn't be pissed off in a situation like that please. 

[carpetbagger]

Oh god this shit again. Yes i was pissed off because i sent my coins to buy the ipo and because of a glitch on their end they didn't receive it. Instead of saying sorry and we'll see what we can do to work something out they basically told me to piss off.
Don't act as if you wouldn't be pissed off in a situation like that please. 

You'll have more success if you leave emotions out of your trading decisions.

[ShroomsKit]

Oh god this shit again. Yes i was pissed off because i sent my coins to buy the ipo and because of a glitch on their end they didn't receive it. Instead of saying sorry and we'll see what we can do to work something out they basically told me to piss off.
Don't act as if you wouldn't be pissed off in a situation like that please.  

You'll have more success if you leave emotions out of your trading decisions.

I was pissed because they screwed me over. What does that have to do with trading decisions?
And once again don't act like you wouldn't be pissed. Don't be an hypocrite.

[carpetbagger]

Oh god this shit again. Yes i was pissed off because i sent my coins to buy the ipo and because of a glitch on their end they didn't receive it. Instead of saying sorry and we'll see what we can do to work something out they basically told me to piss off.
Don't act as if you wouldn't be pissed off in a situation like that please. 

You'll have more success if you leave emotions out of your trading decisions.

I was pissed because they screwed me over. What does that have to do with trading decisions?
And once again don't act like you wouldn't be pissed. Don't be an hypocrite.

Well I don't know what exactly you experienced, but ytterbium seemed to be suggesting that after you missed the IPO price, you chose not to buy in afterwards during the copious opportunities at .0016ish. Is that correct?

[ShroomsKit]

Oh god this shit again. Yes i was pissed off because i sent my coins to buy the ipo and because of a glitch on their end they didn't receive it. Instead of saying sorry and we'll see what we can do to work something out they basically told me to piss off.
Don't act as if you wouldn't be pissed off in a situation like that please. 

You'll have more success if you leave emotions out of your trading decisions.

I was pissed because they screwed me over. What does that have to do with trading decisions?
And once again don't act like you wouldn't be pissed. Don't be an hypocrite.

Well I don't know what exactly you experienced, but ytterbium seemed to be suggesting that after you missed the IPO price, you chose not to buy in afterwards during the copious opportunities at .0016ish. Is that correct?

?

Absolutely not relevant.

[AbendWind]

Hi, where can I found share prices history for the very beginning?

[carpetbagger]

Oh god this shit again. Yes i was pissed off because i sent my coins to buy the ipo and because of a glitch on their end they didn't receive it. Instead of saying sorry and we'll see what we can do to work something out they basically told me to piss off.
Don't act as if you wouldn't be pissed off in a situation like that please. 

You'll have more success if you leave emotions out of your trading decisions.

I was pissed because they screwed me over. What does that have to do with trading decisions?
And once again don't act like you wouldn't be pissed. Don't be an hypocrite.

Well I don't know what exactly you experienced, but ytterbium seemed to be suggesting that after you missed the IPO price, you chose not to buy in afterwards during the copious opportunities at .0016ish. Is that correct?

?

Absolutely not relevant.

You're right. I thought this was the ShroomsKit's Poor Decisions thread. Back to Basic Mining then.