What's wrong with Betcoin.ag? Here's a list.

[TwitchySeal]

Updated OP with recent news involving overcharged rake last year:

• Taking Too Much Rake
  From 11/14 or earlier10/31 to 12/14 they raked cash games up to six times more than advertised.  They made a WEIRD STATEMENT after over a month, and have since ignored the issue and deletedANY QUESTIONS LIKE THIS (by dooglus)
  
  Update:  Betcoin addressed this situation on 3/3/16 [LINK] They admitted the rake cap was increased due to a technical issue and are now offering players the choice to have their account be reviewed to determine if/how much they were over charged  from 10/30/15-12/9/15 OR waive the review process and receive a Tournament entry worth 0.05 BTC  
  
  "If a player played at Betcoin Poker using the 100% rakeback promo, the player will technically owe funds to Betcoin.... If the player owes Betcoin funds, the player's account will be deducted those funds, however if the player chooses to accept a ticket in lieu of a review, the player will be awarded the ticket."
  
  This is a step in the right direction for sure, but it's disappointing that they seem only moderately apologetic for the actual glitch causing the rake increase, and no mention of why they allowed this to drag on for four months or any pledge to handle situations like this differently in the future
  
  I don't think their claim that players may "technically owe them" is valid considering the they failed to address the situation for over 4 months as well as the fact that they were aware of the issue on November 10th, and allowed it to continue for a month longer.  
  
  My response: [LINK]
  

[TwitchySeal]

Update:

Shortly after the "Betcoin Poker Return of Overcharged Rake or Daily Coin Ticket" statement last week I was un-banned from Betcoin without explanation.  I decided to bump my ticket from Sept 1 about the missing rakeback and status points that I was missing from WPN mtts.  I explained the issue back in November in this thread as well - [LINK]

I was expecting them to ignore the issue the way they had so many times before, maybe even just re-ban me, so I was surprised when they replied with a promise to make this right within a few days and how much was I owed.  I responded 2.5-5 btc and a detailed summary of why. Here's my explanation, if anyone is interested - [LINK]

A few days later they gave me 3,000 chips and 6,000 status points with the following message:

We have reviewed your statements and play in detail and have credited you with 3,000 mbtc to your account. We have also added 6,530 status points as reflected by your statements. Since this time everything has been running smoothly on Betcoin and we hope that it continues to run smoothly for you as well. We are here anytime if you need us and we appreciate having you here at Betcoin.

Obviously I'm happy to have gotten paid, I had written it off long ago - and I didn't really know how to react to be honest.  I've been putting off making this post because if I'm going to be honest, it's going to make Betcoin look bad, and they just gave me a decent amount of money, it doesn't seem right to say bad things about someone who just gave you money.  I suspect this very thought process has helped Betcoin a great deal in the past.  It's also the reason for corruption all over the world.

Clearly this thought process is irrational.

• The money they gave me was mine all along - yet it's so easy to look at them as generous for returning it to me.
• I think it's extremely unlikely they actually reviewed my play at all, they told me the same thing 5 months ago before stating " we are absolutely certain your VIP numbers are correct."
• What about everyone else?  Surely I'm not the only one owed for WPN Rakeback (although I may be missing the most)
• After 6 months of insisting I was wrong, banning me, etc, they admit they were wrong and pay me - without any sort of apology are assurance that players don't have to worry about this kind of behavior from them in the future.  This is much greater an issue than 3 BTC should solve.

I know many will read all this and consider it just more Betcoin Bashing, but really I'm just being as honest as I possibly can. 

If Betcoin continues to try and mask how unorganized and corrupt they are with lies, they deserve to fail and we should help.  If they are willing to show their pure intentions with transparency and willingness to learn from their mistakes instead of try to get away with them, none of these issues would really be issues at all.  Just honest mistakes.

[IamNotSure]

Meanwhile betcoin poker is AWOL

[DarkDays]

Betcoin poker "went down" for awhile yesterday and "came back up" today.

A message was posted to the front page...containing a phishing link.  Personally, I haven't received a phishing email containing that link (has anyone else?), but either way, it's very dangerous to be posting phishing links to all of your customers.  It's almost like...that was the goal?

[TwitchySeal]

Posted in their signature campaign thread.  Can't make this stuff up.

We hope everyone has had a great week.  Again, a special thank you to everyone for your support and continued involvement in our signature campaign and Betcoin.ag.  As with any company as it grows there will be detractors, those that say negative things, however often these few people are the ones that use Betcoin.ag the most.  Also, every company that achieves some notoriety will not be able to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, though we continue to try, search Google is a Scam for example.  Each comment from a detractor only serves to bump our thread which creates more interest in Betcoin and drives more traffic to Betcoin.  Once the traffic arrives, they stay and we are thankful for that.

We will continue to provide the best place for you to play and your referrals to play as well as a great signature campaign designed to reward you for your great work.  Our player base continues to grow and with growth comes detractors, however most of them openly spend their time at Betcoin.ag!  Actions speak much louder than words and we are happy to have them in our great community as well.  Thank you everybody.  

[betcoinplr]

I've been playing on Betcoin for about a year now, mostly poker but also some casino games.
This is my summary of Betcoin.ag as a gambling site and how they treat their paying customers.

Issues there have been on Betcoin.ag in past year and if they have been explained/fixed by staff:
-Overcharging rake in poker games for months:
Betcoin staff did announce they are "fixing" the rake,
however they never returned overcharged rake to players who were overcharged.
-LiveCasino stealing bets:
Happens when bet is not accepted to game because of lag or whatever, however said bet is not credited back
to player account. When playing multiple hands of Blackjack for example, it's not simple to track it. This has never
been answered by staff.
-Hacked or internal leaking of player data:
Not too long ago Betcoin forced all players password
changes "for additional security" and claimed they haven't been hacked. However most if not all
players got phising e-mails which started "Hello, (username)". Betcoin claims they have not been hacked
(forced password change to everyone usually means site has been hacked). Since then, there has been
atleast one other phishing wave.
-Rude and Agressive customer support:
When ever there is a issue regarding Betcoin.ag, listed above for example, staff never fixes losses
caused to players, or mostly never even give proper answers. Instead there is huge censorship in Betcoin
forums and public player chat, all negative comments about issues Betcoin is having are quickly censored
and replaced with overly positive posts and comments "hey guys i love betcoin there are no issues forget
about those and lets all be happy and keep gambling" written by paid shills. Also public player chat has
same paid shills. If you start to question site about their issues too much, you get banned, and, funny that,
first customer service i've ever seen calling you names if you question the site issues and ask for answers.
Betcoin.ag pays players for good positive reviews and deletes criticism. How will new player ever get accurate
info about site and would you consider that being good ethics by company who wishes to hold your moneys?
Proof here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/betcoin-ag-disgrace-online-poker-bitcoin-1571872/index3.html
and also in copypastes/screenshots below
-Scammers on site: They tolerate such behaviour to great lengths  instead of scamming players, most notorious
scammer there jonnyrocket/dpad was great example, even after impersonating Betcoin staff in his Skype scams to
steal coins from other players, he still wasn't banned. Now he is supposedly being banned though. If you use
Google and read more about Betcoin.ag, you see how Betcoin has hosted few large freerolls, which were very heavily
multiaccounted. However Betcoin didn't ban multiaccounters or seize their moneys, they on purpose allowed them to withdraw
and keep playing.


Examples below
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I questioned site issues and paid shill posts/censorship and got banned.
Also customer support called me a scammer and multiaccounter (absolutely not true, never have scammed or multiaccounted anywhere).
http://imgur.com/gallery/XP8PL/

btcjbtc
i want same deal as djn and mentat

Chat started
btcjbtc
thank you

Betcoin George joined the chat

Betcoin George
How may I help you?
btcjbtc
i'd like to get same deal as djn and mentat, regarding forum posts

Betcoin George
Send a ticket.
btcjbtc
i can write even better betcoin praising post

Betcoin George
We don't deal with that here on chat.
btcjbtc
why not? why only on ticket?

Betcoin George
A manager has to review it.

//////////////

Betcoin George
Expert Support Supervisor
?
Betcoin George joined the chat
Chat started

Betcoin George
Hello how may I help you?
btcjbtc
why i've been banned?

Betcoin George
Why? You go and lie on chat and said that I confirmed that we pay players to post.? I never said that I said send a ticket  and a manager will answer that for you? DO NOT use me to make yoursefl look good on player chat! why are you making trouble?

btcjbtc
how did i lie?

Betcoin George
I never told you we did that I told you to send a ticket that I could not help you on chat.
btcjbtc

Betcoin George
Send a ticket.

btcjbtc
i can write even better betcoin praising post

Betcoin George
We don't deal with that here on chat.
btcjbtc
why not? why only on ticket?

Betcoin George
A manager has to review it.
btcjbtc
my post before i send it to forums?

Betcoin George
Its funny because I see you have multiple accounts.

btcjbtc
i'm not trying to make me look "good" why would i?

Betcoin George
Why do you have many accounts.

btcjbtc
lol what is my another account? i've never had any other accounts on betcoin
it's like you'd ask me why i've killed my mother when i haven't
how come it takes 5mins to ban a player when i question shill posters, but scammers run around freely for years

Betcoin George
So me telling you to make a ticket somehow became me saying yes they will pay you to post good things?

How does that come to be out of me saying send a ticket.

btcjbtc
yea you said getting paid for shill posts will be discusedd in tickets.
Also you have paid campaign: https://www.betcoin.ag/introducing-betcoinag-bitcoin-talk-signature-campaign-get-paid-promote-betcoinag

//// (in this chat my name is "review of betcoin", contacted customer support live chat other day again while being anonymous)

   
Betcoin Stuart
Customer support
👍👎
review of betcoin
hello

Chat started
Betcoin Stuart joined the chat

Betcoin Stuart
Hello
How can I help?

review of betcoin
I've written a review of Betcoin.ag to be posted for Bitcointalk and Twoplustwo + social media, would like to have staff member to review and comment on it before posting?

Betcoin Stuart
Thank you for that we appreciate it
you can create a ticket with it
if you want to be reviewed by high management

review of betcoin
also is there Bitcoin Talk campaign active yeat

Betcoin Stuart
you can request the reward by ticket also
Well I am not aware of it at the moment
I think it is
it is best you create a ticket about it

review of betcoin
so you are not able to check and comment it now?
why is creating ticket necessary?

Betcoin Stuart
Not, that has to be reviewed by high management
review of betcoin
what amounts are rewards for very good posts typically?

Betcoin Stuart
they will make the decision of the reward
it depends

review of betcoin
one more question

Betcoin Stuart
yes?

review of betcoin
what would you say about case where there is such obvious paid post on forums. a player points out it is made by paid poster and that betcoin staff pays for such posts. player contacts live support and live support confirms posts are getting paid (just like you did confirm now)

Betcoin Stuart
Well that is high management decision

review of betcoin
why do you then ban such player just for saying some post is paid?

Betcoin Stuart
Again
please create a ticket about that

review of betcoin
so you mean you encourage postst that are not true, but are very positive, instead of actualy reviews?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of my several censored posts from Betcoin forums:

From player perspective this is how Betcoin could improve their service if they want to take advantage of huge market available in Bitcoin gambling and be a very top go-to site for players in all games.
1) Security
What players except as most important things when playing on X site, is that their money is safe, and they can trust their games are safe.

Current situation:
Pros: Bankrolls on site seem to be safe and I have always had fast withdrawals.
Cons: Issues regarding extra rake being charged, Issues regarding handling BBJP-freeroll, Issues regarding colluders, cheaters and multiaccounters and how they are handled.

Suggestion how Betcoin could improve:
Show players you are here for players and you want players to keep playing your games.
Be straightforward and strict with your policies; ban cheaters/scammers/colluders, return money to their victims (instead of keeping it yourself or even more LOL returning it to them.) If accidentally extra rake
has been charged, return it to victims, do not distribute it to everyone in form of freeroll for example.
Of course scammers and cheaters will create new accounts under new IP's, but fear of losing your bankroll
when getting caught or losing hardly grinded vip-status with rakeback %'s makes you really think twice if
you want to get your account confiscated.

2) Public relationships and communication
What players expect when playing on X site, is that staff communicates to players of all issues honestly and as transparent as possible. When you do that, players trust you way more.

Current situation:
Pros: Hard to think of anything positive of the current situation.
Cons: Many issues regarding communications in recent history. Issues have been censored and quieted down (extra rake, bbjp, colluders, multiaccounter, freeroll-catastrophy, most notorious scammer in Betcoin aka jonnyrocket).

Suggestion how Betcoin could Improve:
Create firm policies and communicate to players honestly and transparent.
When there's an issue, it's always good to let people know about it - and how you will fix it, instead
of waiting for people stop talking about unpleasent issue. Whenever you fail to address and/or fix an issue, your PR takes huge hit longterm, afterall you can find everything from internets. On poker side of Betcoin specially, more action and more tables generate more action, it's like an avalanche. Whenever you drive players to other sites, traffic and action takes a long term hit. Damage is not just missing out one players rake.

I'm personally quite pissed to Betcoin for few reasons listed above and am playing on other site as we speak. I really like many things on Betcoin and would love to play here, I really really hope your staff and management can improve their attitude and make Betcoin really a great place to gamble and have community fun on, instead of passive-agressively doing whatever you can because you can.

Regards,
btcjbtc
---
Customer support in public player chat (after my post above got censored I wanted to chat with support,
"Betcoin Jessica" is manager of Betcoin customer support. btcjbtc is my nick. "OHYEAH" they are referring to, is old reg
and I think he is Twitchy_Seal or something like that in bitcointalk/2+2, however when I bring up site issues I want to
talk about, I get publicly called for being multiaccounter and same person as OHYEAH-player (because he has criticized Betcoin in past aswell).
Such silly behavior:

10:10amBetcoin Jessica: Support matters and feedback of that type is handled at the support level and not public forum.
10:10amStareYouDown: lol
10:11amStareYouDown: Jessica agrees with me.
10:11ambtcjbtc: i'd love to play here and want to address issues that are stopping me to play here
10:11amStareYouDown: now she going in date with me, sorry Longsh0t
10:11ambtcjbtc: From player perspective this is how Betcoin could improve their service if they want to take advantage of huge market available in Bitcoin gambling and be a very top go-to site for players in all games. 1) Security
What players except as most important things when playing on X site, is that their money is safe, and they can trust their games are safe. Current situation:
Pros: Bankrolls on site seem to be safe and I have always had fast withdrawals.
Cons: Issues regarding extra rake being charged, Issues regarding handling BBJP-freeroll, Issues regarding colluders, cheaters and multiaccounters and how they are handled. Suggestion how Betcoin could improve:
Show players you are here for players and you want players to keep playing your games.
Be straightforward and strict with your policies; ban cheaters/scammers/colluders, return money to their victims (instead of keeping it yourself or even more LOL returning it to them.) If accidentally extra rake
has been charged, return it to victims, do not distribute it to everyone in form of freeroll for example.
Of course scammers and cheaters will create new accounts under new IP's, but fear of losing your bankroll
when getting caught or losing hardly grinded vip-status with rakeback %'s makes you really think twice if
you want to get your account confiscated. 2) Public relationships and communication
What players expect when playing on X site, is that staff communicates to players of all issues honestly and as transparent as possible. When you do that, players trust you way more. Current situation:
Pros: Hard to think of anything positive of the current situation.
Cons: Many issues regarding communications in recent history. Issues have been censored and quieted down (extra rake, bbjp, colluders, multiaccounter, freeroll-catastrophy, most notorious scammer in Betcoin aka jonnyrocket). Suggestion how Betcoin could Improve:
Create firm policies and communicate to players honestly and transparent.
When there's an issue, it's always good to let people know about it - and how you will fix it, instead
of waiting for people stop talking about unpleasent issue. Whenever you fail to address and/or fix an issue, your PR takes huge hit longterm, afterall you can find everything from internets. On poker side of Betcoin specially, more action and more tables generate more action, it's like an avalanche. Whenever you drive players to other sites, traffic and action takes a long term hit. Damage is not just missing out one players rake. I'm personally quite pissed to Betcoin for few reasons listed above and am playing on other site as we speak. I really like many things on Betcoin and would love to play here, I really really hope your staff and management can improve their attitude and make Betcoin really a great place to gamble and have community fun on, instead of passive-agressively doing whatever you can because you can. Regards,
btcjbtc
10:11amBetcoin Jessica: I should note there was some deliberation, but when you say in the post that you are very disappointed and play at another site and then your next post says you are playing at Betcoin, it's not clear what your intentions are truly.
10:12amStareYouDown: Careful, you do not want to hit the "OHYEAH LEVEL"
10:12amStareYouDown: lol
10:12amBetcoin Jessica: SYD who says this isn't OHYEAH?
10:13amBetcoin Jessica: Excellent statement SYD.
10:13amStareYouDown: Be back in 1 hour, keep it friendly and peaceful up in here please. I am putting my pistol away for the moment.
10:14amBetcoin Jessica: Play the daily coin later.
10:14ambtcjbtc: my point is
10:14ambtcjbtc: at the moment i play on other site as i've stated on forums multiple times
10:14amStareYouDown: i'll check on it Jessica and ill be in there
10:14ambtcjbtc: i would love to play on betcoin but certain issues should be solved
10:14amBetcoin Jessica: What forums have you stated this on?
10:14ambtcjbtc: betcoin forums
10:14ambtcjbtc: in jonny threads etc
10:15ambtcjbtc: how i stopped affiliate links and withdrew my chips etc and warned my affialiates about certain scammers
10:15amBetcoin Jessica: You should play where you are happiest.
10:15ambtcjbtc: you cant seriously claim your sencorship is because controversy which site i play on, but you want to hide awkward issues
10:16amBetcoin Jessica: There is a fine line when operating a gaming site and having a community and it's difficult to find the exact point at times.
10:16ambtcjbtc: of course
10:17ambtcjbtc: why cant issues be talked about openly
10:17amBetcoin Jessica: They can on other forums.
10:17ambtcjbtc: why you want to hide issues (scammers, extra rake etc) from Betcoin forums? so people couldn't know what happens?
10:18amBetcoin Jessica: Who are you really btcjbtc?
10:18ambtcjbtc: why can i post "your service is great i love you"
10:18ambtcjbtc: this is my only ever account on betcoin
10:19ambtcjbtc: but why i can't post "there are these issues in your service and this is suggestion to fix them"
10:19amBetcoin Jessica: Not everyone believes this including many players who have given some pretty good feedback on it.
10:19ambtcjbtc: you just accept good feedback?
10:20ambtcjbtc: whats the good feedback about you charging extra rake for weeks from everyone?
10:20amBetcoin Jessica: We accept all feedback and it also isn't posted.
10:20ambtcjbtc: whats the good feedback about jonnyrockets scams?
10:20amRozay: Betcoin Jessica: Who are you really btcjbtc?
10:20amRozay: something we dont know jessica?
10:20amBetcoin Jessica: We know who he is Rozay.
10:21ambtcjbtc: Jessica clearly suspects I'm OHYEAH or something like that as he was pissed to betcoin also
10:21amRozay: did i miss the daily train this morning syd?
10:21ambtcjbtc: in bitcointalk
10:21amRozay: oooo
10:21amBetcoin Jessica: His account has been marked for months.
10:21amRozay: thought you might have been someone else
10:21amBetcoin Jessica: We just wondered how long it would take to show his true self.
10:21amBetcoin Jessica: The irony is he plays all the time, we monitor everything.
10:22ambtcjbtc: lol you mean my account?
10:22amRozay: I can believe it, people have alter egos around here
10:22amRozay: btc think you may have anothe rbetcoin account
10:22amBetcoin Jessica: It's crazy Rozay.
10:22ambtcjbtc: this is actually good material
10:23amBetcoin Jessica: There's always great material here at Betcoin.
10:23ambtcjbtc: actually staff saying this is my alt account and i'm someone else?
btcjbtc: this is actually good material
10:23amBetcoin Jessica: There's always great material here at Betcoin.
10:23ambtcjbtc: actually staff saying this is my alt account and i'm someone else?
10:23amNerdGirl: Good morning all
10:23amNerdGirl: Good morning Jessica!
10:23amBetcoin Jessica: Hello NerdGirl
10:23amRozay: gm nerb
10:23amIdz4dealz: Wow only been away few mins and pow. Morning every1
10:24amSharon Bluntz: hi I dz
10:24amBetcoin Jessica: btcj actually we are saying we don't know who you are just as we don't know 90% of our great players.
10:24amBetcoin Jessica: I must run, but good luck to everyone.
10:24ambtcjbtc: wow so who am i actually then if this wouldn't be my one and only account ever here?
10:26amBetcoin Jessica: You will get in Idz, good luck.
10:27amIdz4dealz: thanks Jessica
10:27ambtcjbtc: surreal
10:27ambtcjbtc: i give feedback of multiaccounters and other betcoin cheater issues
10:28ambtcjbtc: and OFFICIAL SUPPORT claims i'm multiaccounting here and my account has been flagged for long
10:28ambtcjbtc: i'm actually speechless
10:28amBetcoin Jessica: Thank you btcjbtc.
10:29ambtcjbtc: anything else you want to charge me of?=
10:29amBetcoin Jessica: Treason.
10:29amStareYouDown: loll
10:29ambtcjbtc: sec using google translate
10:29amSharon Bluntz: lol
10:29ambtcjbtc: are you fucking crazy?
btcjbtc: sec using google translate
10:29amSharon Bluntz: lol
10:29ambtcjbtc: are you fucking crazy?
10:30amStareYouDown: lol !!!
10:30amRozay: lmao
10:30amIdz4dealz: only been lol
10:30amBetcoin Jessica: Lol, we shall bring you to the United Nations for a hearing on charges of treason.
10:30ambtcjbtc: ok
10:30amBetcoin Jessica: SYD, Rozay round him up and receive your bounty.
10:31ambtcjbtc: this is actually some good shit to 2+2 and bitcointalk how support behaves
10:31amBetcoin Jessica: In all seriousness btcjbtc, we do appreciate your feedback and are working hard on everything.
10:31amRozay: Betcoin Jessica: In all seriousness btcjbtc, we do appreciate your feedback and are working hard on everything.
10:31amBetcoin Jessica: Things, will continue to get better and better.
10:31amStareYouDown: Hold up though
10:31amStareYouDown: how much is the bounty for.
10:31amRozay: btc you will only show its a real person with a sense of humor
10:31amBetcoin Jessica: Also, this is player chat not support as has been stated many times.
10:31amRozay: and depending on price i might be at your door with syd
10:32amBetcoin Jessica: We don't address support in player chat or the forum. Maybe that's where you are getting confused btcjbtc.
10:32amIdz4dealz: Think if you disturb a swan that's close to treason coz they belong to queen
10:32ambtcjbtc: totally inappropriate behaviour Jessica


SUMMARY OR TL;DR

If you're looking for place to play poker with bitcoins, I recommend www.swcpoker.eu, more players and more games than on Betcoin
without needing to worry about such heavy site issues there are on Betcoin regarding player funds etc.

[TwitchySeal]

Finally got a response about the user data being compromised in early Janurary from Betcoin staff.



Obviously the second and third paragraphs are Betcoins standard passive aggressive BS we've all heard.

Pretty sure the claim that only 20% of players got the email is 100% bullshit and they will just ignore questions about it, but I try anyway....



And a classic statement from Jessica. (Keep in mind this was the first they have responded to the issue in 84 days.

[DarkDays]

If their only claims have been "we were not hacked" and "we know exactly how many players received the phishing emails", the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Betcoin themselves have been sending us the phishing emails.  Or that they sold our information and know how many user's personal data they sold and what was done with it.  There is no other way for those statements to both be true.

[TwitchySeal]

I recently outted Lorylore, a member of their campaign, for having multiple Hero Status accounts used only to grind out signature campaigns.  Nearly every post was 1 or 2 sentences in one of those threads obviously used to get post counts up, often several posts a minute.

Proof of Multiple Hero status accounts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236667.msg15064092#msg15064092

Betcoins response:

All payments should be received and again we thank everyone for their support and participation.  The demand has been overwhelming.  We also always appreciate all feedback and bumps to our thread but will always our own independent investigation therefore there is no need to worry about personal attacks guys.  Just keep up the great work and we will always take a few extra bumps to our thread! 

Needless to say, lorylore is still a member.

Speaking of "independent investigations"

Still waiting for the result of their investigation into how scammers got player login info.  They have been investigating for almost 6 months now!

Here's the support ticket I have open on the issue:

[Fortify]

Glad to see they credited at least one person in an attempt to make it right. It's awful to see a phishing link found it's way on to their homepage though. Not surprised though - their website was suffering problems the other week and throwing out all sorts of errors. An error being displayed on a casino website is a big no-no as it can expose all sorts of information which allow attackers in. Pretty sure some part of it was on the Joomla content management system - which is fine but opens you up to mass market exploits.

[TwitchySeal]

Got another one to add to the list:

Betcoin player hits progressive Jackpot worth over BTC500, Betsoft won't pay and Betcoin attempts to cover it up with lies


Pretty serious accusation against Betcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0

Cliffs:

JasonOrt bets max with .5 denom on Glam-Life and triggers 4 extra spins.  

On 4th spin he gets 5 yacht symbols and wins 1000 credits, not jackpot.

Pay table says:


(No other rules found anywhere about Jackpot)




A) Betcoin tells him he was not eligible because it was a free spin and attempt to shame him by telling him most players know what he does not:

most players understand that it is a bonus or free round and there are different outcomes because of that.

Then lock his thread: https://www.betcoin.ag/should-pay-line-have-won-jackpot-glam-life, and delete most of the comments.

Jasons Defense:
GreedyGoblins is another slot with a progressive Jackpot offered by the same service provider.  
Here you can see they clarify that even though the freespin round offers multipliers, the jackpot can not be multiplied.  This implies that the jackpot is not excluded during free spins.



B) Betsoft Gaming tells him he was not eligible because he did not bet max with the highest denomination.

Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00).

Jasons Defense:

Every denomination clearly has an independant jackpot.  When you switch denominations, the jackpot changes.  

On casinolistings.com they track bovadas Glam Life Jackpot.  It's clear they are independant and all denominations are eligible:



The owner of casinolistings.com also chimed in: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.msg15313569#msg15313569


Finally we have the comments of plo8monster, Betcoins lone site "pro" and the father half of the father/son chat mods.

While being discussed in chat he sided with Betcoin immediately:

plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin

After the story was clear, 2 days later, he made these statements:

plo8monster: i told you im not gonna to join that conversation ..im a poker pro smart enuf not to play slots ...i played maybe 10 times in my life
plo8monster: i am not knowledgable about slots
plo8monster: slots is not something i can help with i know zero about them
plo8monster: I had a roomate at that time playing my slots and showing me how with my bonuses ... but i am not a slots player
 plo8monster: why ya gotta be such a biiiish twitchy
plo8monster: this issue with Jason is NOT MY BUSINESS ... how many times must i tell you same thing it is waste of time

Hopefully Betcoin will have time to respond to this sometime between thanking users for kind words and going home for the weekend.


Oh almost forgot, the jackpot was 1,007,249.91 credits at .5mbtc denomination.  (503.6249 BTC current value of ~$383,000)

[TwitchySeal]

Cleaning up OP, dumping some info here
Users involved:

• Betcoin.ag
  
  
• plo8monster: Betcoins official "site pro" and "moderator".  I don't think he is acting out of greed like the rest, but it seems he went blind the day decided to be loyal to Betcoin.ag no matter what.  I hope he wakes up.  (He was previously the "site pro" at Satoshi Poker.  He remained loyal to the last day, when they had to sell the site to repay their players after the owner stole all the deposits. )
  
  
• XiaoXiao: Betcoin Affiliate:  Any semi-serious poker player at Betcoin is basically forced to create an account under Xiaoxiao because of a mysterious deal he has which allows him to return 40% of rake paid to the player weekly.  (Other affiliates can not compete, he cashes in on his players sports/casino play and corners market)  He has a huge thread you can find HERE where he claims to be a "players advocate" but practices the same despicable tactics as Betcoin: lying or ignoring the serious issues, and spamming his own thread with deceptive promotional material.
  
  
• ftwbtc1: This is Betcoins Shill #1 Don't be fooled by the recent non-betcoin post history - Betcoin management likely controls or has access to this account. (More info on that connection HERE )
  
  noobtc: alt of ftwbtc1,I'm certain of this.
  
  

[hec4mu]

Hi guys,

I'd like to share my story of how betcoin fucked me. I'm going to keep this as short and simple as period and let all the screenshots do the talking. Basically made 4 sportsbook bets that were legitimately placed and after the event has finished, MANY hours after, betcoin changed my original bets from kills/match to rounds/match.

http://imgur.com/a/3HjMs
Shows bets placed in both wallet transactions as well as sportsbook history.

http://imgur.com/a/Fi8qi
shows how they changed my original bet i made from kills/round to rounds/match. Also shows many discussions I've had with chat "support" about where betcoin is located and who they are licensed by. Correct me if I'm wrong but last time I checked Antigua and Costa Rica were not the same.

http://imgur.com/a/FA7AT
Support ticket created and response. Mario, in charge of the sportsbook at betcoin, states that there was a mix up of market names. That's funny because whenever I make a bet and accidentally make a wrong bet, whether it be the team, over/under, etc, there is no "oh I made a mistake, I take it back, cancel and refund my mistake."

If there is anyone that actually knows if betcoin is licensed by WPN and how I would contact the licensing authorities or whoever I'm supposed to contact, I'd appreciate it as I would like to make a formal complaint. Thanks for your time. 

[marlais]

If there is anyone that actually knows if betcoin is licensed by WPN and how I would contact the licensing authorities or whoever I'm supposed to contact, I'd appreciate it as I would like to make a formal complaint. Thanks for your time.  

I am afraid that you may be SOL, like jasonort. Betcoin pays WPN to have WPN tourneys on their site, but WPN does not license Betcoin. If they are licensed at all, it is not stated on their site. This is the closest I could find:

25. GOVERNING LAW
These Agreements shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong. You irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao in The Netherlands Antilles for the settlement of any dispute or matters arising out of or concerning these Agreements or their enforceability.

You could try contacting Curacao eGaming and see if they are licensed through them:

https://www.curacao-egaming.com/

For complaints please mail to
complaints@curacao-egaming.com

[hec4mu]

If there is anyone that actually knows if betcoin is licensed by WPN and how I would contact the licensing authorities or whoever I'm supposed to contact, I'd appreciate it as I would like to make a formal complaint. Thanks for your time.  

I am afraid that you may be SOL, like jasonort. Betcoin pays WPN to have WPN tourneys on their site, but WPN does not license Betcoin. If they are licensed at all, it is not stated on their site. This is the closest I could find:

25. GOVERNING LAW
These Agreements shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong. You irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao in The Netherlands Antilles for the settlement of any dispute or matters arising out of or concerning these Agreements or their enforceability.

You could try contacting Curacao eGaming and see if they are licensed through them:

https://www.curacao-egaming.com/

For complaints please mail to
complaints@curacao-egaming.com

Hey thanks for the reply and advice. I'm aware that most bitcoin sites aren't licensed but I'll try contacting curacao.

[marlais]

Hey thanks for the reply and advice. I'm aware that most bitcoin sites aren't licensed but I'll try contacting curacao.

These guys have no authority over Betcoin, but they do collect player sportsbook complaints and post them to their site:

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/betting-sites/betcoin/

[actmyname]

Hey thanks for the reply and advice. I'm aware that most bitcoin sites aren't licensed but I'll try contacting curacao.

These guys have no authority over Betcoin, but they do collect player sportsbook complaints and post them to their site:

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/betting-sites/betcoin/

The more people we get away from Betcoin the better. These incidents might occur in the future affecting greater pools of people. I guess we can consider hec4mu and jasonort to be martyrs against Betcoin, helping to bring light to what they truly do?

@hec4mu, try to speak to as many people as you can about this incident. Do not sit on it and let Betcoin shove it under the rug and ignore it.

[hec4mu]

Hey thanks for the reply. I've been w/ bitcoin for well over 2 years now. This isn't the first time that they've done shady stuff. There are multiple instances where they have graded my bets as losing bets and will only correct them AFTER I spend hours if not days contacting them and going out of my way with proof. Not to mention status points not accumulating correctly. Betcoin William changing that status of bets. Sportsbook bets not showing up in uncleared bets, yet the btc is deducted from wallet transactions and betcoin not doing anything about it until yet again I have to spend hours if not days going out of my way to do what they should have done in the first place and refund me for their bugged bets. List goes on and on.

Can anyone link me the story about jasonort?

[marlais]

Can anyone link me the story about jasonort?

BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0

Betcoin.ag, Betsoft Force Shafted Jackpot Winner into Agreement
https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/07/betcoin-ag-betsoft-force-shafted-jackpot-winner-into-agreement

[hec4mu]

Hey thanks for the reply and advice. I'm aware that most bitcoin sites aren't licensed but I'll try contacting curacao.

These guys have no authority over Betcoin, but they do collect player sportsbook complaints and post them to their site:

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/betting-sites/betcoin/

Hey Marlais,

I just found this http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sports-betting-news/bitcoin-betting-site-betcoin-ag-addresses-live-betting-complaint-73208/

Bascially they deduct the funds from your wallet as if you made the bet. Doesn't show up in sportsbook cleared or uncleared bets. I have to go out of my own way just to get a REFUND. They never honored my winning slips nor did they ever automatically refund me. I had to waste hours upon hours if not days to get a refund. If they ever did say anything it was that "we are working on it."

and I have over 20 bets (maybe over 30) that are exactly the same stretching from the past year. I just made screen shots of all my support tickets just in case betcoin tries to tamper with that as this wouldn't be the first time they tampered with my account/bets.

Also do i just post my complaints under the forums? I'll look for the betcoin forum if there is one. Going to upload all of my screen shots from support for the past 2 years. Will upload to imgur and do this all tomorrow. Thanks for the help.