ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT

[hdbuck]

http://bravetheworld.com/2016/02/09/faith-bitcoin-restored/

Relevant.

If the block size debate has demonstrated anything, it's that there's a fundamental lack of understanding about how Bitcoin actually works. If you're going to the moon, would you like your spaceship built by a handful of informed engineers, or by the average tax payer?

That's the correct way of saying it.

I'd be even more keen to know my money is not being "upgraded" ad infinity and subject to thousand and thousand lines of useless code being constantly added..

Less code please and feel free to do whatever you want on top of it, scam people, raise VC money, really what-thefuck-ever.

[1715296165]

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[brg444]

So.  Fekkin.  Rekt.   

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-February/012412.html

[bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Increase block size limit to 2 megabytes
Samson Mow samson.mow at btcc.com
Tue Feb 9 05:11:56 UTC 2016

Gavin, please don't quote that list on the Classic website. It's horribly
inaccurate and misleading to the general public.

> That testing is happening by the exchange, library, wallet, etc providers
> themselves. There is a list on the Classic home page:
>
> https://bitcoinclassic.com/

I know for a fact that most companies you list there have no intention to
run Classic, much less test it. You should not mix support for 2MB with
support for Classic, or if people say they welcome a fork, to mean they
support Classic.

 

[iCEBREAKER]

http://bravetheworld.com/2016/02/09/faith-bitcoin-restored/

Relevant.

Thanks for the contribution.

Sidebar: you may have noticed I left out BTC Unlimited. This is because it's – let me be politically correct – "learning disabled." 

 

I was just remarking on how Unlimiturd didn't even warrant a #R3KT thread to mark its death from suffocation under 10,000 coats of paint.

[hdbuck]

http://bravetheworld.com/2016/02/09/faith-bitcoin-restored/

Relevant.

Thanks for the contribution.

Sidebar: you may have noticed I left out BTC Unlimited. This is because it's – let me be politically correct – "learning disabled." 

 

I was just remarking on how Unlimiturd didn't even warrant a #R3KT thread to mark its death from suffocation under 10,000 coats of paint.

Sidebar: for a more fun conspiracy, dig around Hearn's past. He's totally MI6.

[watashi-kokoto]

pointing out that even Soupernerd as Roger Ver's puppet mod account! (self.Bitcoin)
So after commenting on this thread and pointing out that even Ver aka Memorydealers has a 2nd mod account to hide his identity, I was banned.
They even have a rule where 1 day accounts cannot comment and hide your comments until you're "approved."

[watashi-kokoto]

Let me just add that there are downvote robots on /r/btc and elsewhere.

[blunderer]

pointing out that even Soupernerd as Roger Ver's puppet mod account! (self.Bitcoin)
So after commenting on this thread and pointing out that even Ver aka Memorydealers has a 2nd mod account to hide his identity, I was banned.
They even have a rule where 1 day accounts cannot comment and hide your comments until you're "approved."

Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!
TL;DR of everything: https://youtu.be/fxGqcCeV3qk?t=59

[sgbett]

Your attempt to insinuate that the the parent was compromised is literally straight out of the CBGB public communication subversion handbook!

Seriously, this whole thread perfectly characterises everything that is wrong right now. nullc should know better. so should I, topping this bile fest is probably ill advised, but at least I'm not a 'core dev'.

Real people with real opinions just aren't this level of crazy.

[brg444]

Your attempt to insinuate that the the parent was compromised is literally straight out of the CBGB public communication subversion handbook!

Seriously, this whole thread perfectly characterises everything that is wrong right now. nullc should know better. so should I, topping this bile fest is probably ill advised, but at least I'm not a 'core dev'.

Real people with real opinions just aren't this level of crazy.

You're hanging out in the mental ward over at bitco.in forums, you've reached a new level of crazy.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

So is Classic actually REKT or are the 2 sides still FUDDING each other without a winner either way?

[blunderer]

So is Classic actually REKT or are the 2 sides still FUDDING each other without a winner either way?

https://coin.dance/nodes

[Fatman3001]

So is Classic actually REKT or are the 2 sides still FUDDING each other without a winner either way?

[marcus_of_augustus]

So is Classic actually REKT or are the 2 sides still FUDDING each other without a winner either way?

so a hundred desperate VC-funded businesses almost out of runway, and a handful of disaffected zealots who hate themselves because they can't code, running 6 nodes each ... all on the same 3 silicon valley data-centers?

[Lauda]

so a hundred desperate VC-funded businesses almost out of runway, and a handful of disaffected zealots who hate themselves because they can't code, running 6 nodes each ... all on the same 3 silicon valley data-centers?

Apparently the number of nodes is only a irrelevant metric when it is in favor of Core. As soon as the number of 'altcoin nodes' start going up it becomes very accurate and relevant. 

So is Classic actually REKT or are the 2 sides still FUDDING each other without a winner either way?

'REKT' since day one.

You're hanging out in the mental ward over at bitco.in forums, you've reached a new level of crazy.

That place is horrible.

If the block size debate has demonstrated anything, it's that there's a fundamental lack of understanding about how Bitcoin actually works. If you're going to the moon, would you like your spaceship built by a handful of informed engineers, or by the average tax payer?

[Fatman3001]

so a hundred desperate VC-funded businesses almost out of runway, and a handful of disaffected zealots who hate themselves because they can't code, running 6 nodes each ... all on the same 3 silicon valley data-centers?

Apparently the number of nodes is only a irrelevant metric when it is in favor of Core. As soon as the number of 'altcoin nodes' start going up it becomes very accurate and relevant. 

I can't remember saying nodes doesn't matter, they're still in favour of Core though. But if nobody mines with Classic it won't matter even if Classic were to have the majority of nodes. Classic was released today so we'll see in the coming weeks if any of the miners will adopt it.

[Lauda]

It seems like even Garzik doesn't agree with the '28 days' nonsense.

28 days seems to be the consensus for an “if we must” hard fork. In the context of a production upgrade cycle at a financial shop, 28 days is more like an emergency update than planned update. 3–6 months is a minimum in that context.

I've told the 'forkers' this several times.

[franky1]

It seems like even Garzik doesn't agree with the '28 days' nonsense.

28 days seems to be the consensus for an “if we must” hard fork. In the context of a production upgrade cycle at a financial shop, 28 days is more like an emergency update than planned update. 3–6 months is a minimum in that context.

I've told the 'forkers' this several times.

if numbskulls who havnt upgraded see that there are 50% then they better get started thinking about upgrading before 75%..  if at 75% they havnt got their act together, theres still 28day cool-off period.

after the 28 day period. there is NOTHING!!! forcing miner to make blocks over 1mb.. nothing at all.. the 2000000 limit is a buffer and it can sit there forever if no miner decides its worth risking moving forward.

infact even with the setting inplace, most miners wont risk it as the orphan rate would be a factor as there is still 25% chance of old miners reaching blockheigh and orphaning off the bigger blocks because the old miners versions dont contain them.
so miners even with the rule set wont risk it until more consensus is reached..

and that means that even with 1 weeks accumulation of blocks to get the 750 out of 1000 blocks (1000 blocks being 7 days). and then the 28 day cool off period after that.. if people haven't moved forward.. then thats their fault for sticking to minority..

if anything shoud change about the roll out period... rather than a 28 day cooling off period being extended. which is just a gesture of goodwill for any laggers.. a more plausible thing would be 7500 blocks out of 10,000 (70 days) to ensure that miners are ready and that its not just a 1 week worth of sybil attack.. thats what i think would be more logical

[gmaxwell]

It seems like even Garzik doesn't agree with the '28 days' nonsense.

28 days seems to be the consensus for an “if we must” hard fork. In the context of a production upgrade cycle at a financial shop, 28 days is more like an emergency update than planned update. 3–6 months is a minimum in that context.

I've told the 'forkers' this several times.

I've wondered if any of them have any experience with large scale production systems at all-- esp any that must have multi-vendor interop.  It's unbelievable.

[franky1]

lets look at it from a different angle, which do you think is more logical

target criteria based on just 7 days(1000 blocks) that triggers a change in the future.. and then a 28 day grace period for laggers who havnt reacted.. to react
or target criteria based on 70 days(10,000 blocks) that triggers a change in the future.. and then a XX day grace period for laggers who havnt reacted.. to react

to me, people who are running true full nodes are already devoted to bitcoin. Enough to be watching the network and notice changes way before the trigger is met.
EG if they know the trigger is 750 out of 1000. then obvious maths suggests:
seeing 3 out of 6 in any hour means people can start thinking its a possibility because 50% is running the update.
seeing 4 out of 6 in any hour means people should really start thinking its a possibility because 66% is running the update.
seeing 5 out of 6 in any hour means people really need to accept that its a possibility because 83% is running the update.

so my first thought was without even having to wait for the 7th day(1000th block), they could start reacting. even from day 1 if the pattern emerges. rather than waiting for the trigger to happen on day 7 and then panicking..

but then i thought that basing it on just 7 days of data (1000 blocks) is too soon and is going to be a shock, even with a larger grace period.. as people may not be monitoring it every day or the short period can be abused by things like a sybil attack, and people would end up debating. denying it, ignoring it rather then preparing for the grace period to lapse

whereas if its based on 70 days(10,000 blocks)..followed by a grace period.. then people have over 2 months to randomly monitor the network and if they start noticing a pattern arising(before trigger date) implying that the trigger might be hit, then people can react and prepare sooner, giving them more time to react before the 10,000th block is hit and then the grace period is just a grace period.

i think its foolish for people to wait until the trigger occurs after just 7 days(1000 blocks) and then go into panic mode thinking they were not given any notice to code a change to be compatible.

i think people need to start reacting and know that at 50%, the possibility is there.. and thus maybe start thinking about coding a compatible update. by 66% have the code ready to release and then be using it by 75% or during the grace period.
 
even if this 50%-75% pattern is noticed in the first 100 blocks. knowing there is still 69 days of data to solidify the trigger into activating, it would give people more peace and time to react, code and release an update.. instead of ignoring it or sitting on their hands until trigger day, and pretend to be shocked.

so.. my main question, would you say maybe something like
10,000 blocks and maybe 28 days grace period?
10,000 blocks and maybe <X> days grace period?

to you what would be your perfect ratio of monitoring the data live to prepare and react. and then a grace period to sort out the lagger minority that have not reacted(remaining 25%)

[hdbuck]

So "grâce period" is the new buzzword in Town?
 Why all the proposals always omit attackers and selfish behaviors?