Thoughts on Zcash?

[stereotype]

The more i read, the more i dont get. Fireworks and tears incoming.

[ahmedjadoon]

What cloud mining service would you guys prefer? Zcash-miner(for 1 year contract) or Nicehash?

Nicehash is not a cloudminer. At least not in the traditional way.

My mistake, it is a hashes rental service. Which one of these mining services including genesis-mining would you recommend?

[rustynailer]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.  Without the ability to audit the blockchain we cant know if they created a gazillion coins or just 21 million.  The technology behind Zcash whereby making the entire blockchain a black hole is great for anonymity but not so great if we cant trust how many coins are in this black hole.

[Fragbait]

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.

Because

they created a gazillion coins

[mybitcoin101]

Total amount of ZCash will be ?

whatever you would like it to be. Feeling down and out and need a pump? just say you own 10,000...who the hell can tell you different?

[stereotype]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Craig Wright, Gavin Andresen , and Jon Matonis over saw it all. Just believe. 

[bolehvpn]

so with all those zcash clone recently, someone can enlighten me? zcoin, for example they said it's use a better technology than zcash, is this true or just a scam coin that want to ride the hype before the official zcash launch?

It's hard to tell which tech is better. Zcoin uses earlier more proven Zerocoin tech. Zcash uses cutting edge tech but has drawbacks as well.

Zcoin is called Zcoin cause of the use of Zerocoin paper.
Zcash is called Zcash cause of the use of Zerocash paper.

I wouldn't call it a scam coin just cause of the name.

Further reading:
http://blog.zcoin.tech/zcoin-and-zcash/

I also posted on this here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1663416.msg16708960#msg16708960

[N-rG]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.  Without the ability to audit the blockchain we cant know if they created a gazillion coins or just 21 million.  The technology behind Zcash whereby making the entire blockchain a black hole is great for anonymity but not so great if we cant trust how many coins are in this black hole.

I don't even think that this is the major problem. It is likely that one or more computers of them is infected. It is just to easy for professional hackers. And this not a kind of conspiracy theory. It's a honey pot for any hacker to get these data for a money printing maschine.

[rustynailer]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.  Without the ability to audit the blockchain we cant know if they created a gazillion coins or just 21 million.  The technology behind Zcash whereby making the entire blockchain a black hole is great for anonymity but not so great if we cant trust how many coins are in this black hole.

I don't even think that this is the major problem. It is likely that one or more computers of them is infected. It is just to easy for professional hackers. And this not a kind of conspiracy theory. It's a honey pot for any hacker to get these data for a money printing maschine.

Exactly.  We have to trust the setup, and if this was how it was done, then that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it.

[2012revisited]

As long as you can get out quicker than what it took you to get in, You just might see a profit.

[tempus]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.  Without the ability to audit the blockchain we cant know if they created a gazillion coins or just 21 million.  The technology behind Zcash whereby making the entire blockchain a black hole is great for anonymity but not so great if we cant trust how many coins are in this black hole.

I don't even think that this is the major problem. It is likely that one or more computers of them is infected. It is just to easy for professional hackers. And this not a kind of conspiracy theory. It's a honey pot for any hacker to get these data for a money printing maschine.

Exactly.  We have to trust the setup, and if this was how it was done, then that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it.

I'm sure that the trusted setup is all right. They did a lot to ensure it's security and also something one could call "decentralized honesty". Peter Todd was involved for example etc.

But: As far as I know it won't even be visible on the blockchain how many Coins exist at a certain point of time. It doesn't need a compromised setup but "just" a bug like it happened to Bitcoin in 2010 (*) while nobody would know about it - just the market.


At the same time: Because of this ridiculous hype I rented some hash-power at bnkofthefuture - so I hope it will be all right and people will buy this. Futures are trading at 1.5 Bitcoin right now: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

What is an interesting question: Futures are nothing reliable, but if we think about the market-situation: There will be nearly no supply for days and weeks. After about 2 weeks just 20k Coins will exist while the first 3 days not even 1000 ZEC will be out there. Day 1: just about 100 ZEC.  I believe it's possible that some really will buy to prices like that or at least really high.



* On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or "blockchain" which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins.[16][17] On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol.[18][19] This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.[16][17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

[Diego24]

Zooko doesn't even know how ZK-Snarks work.

That should say a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6RLjcGVUnw&feature=youtu.be&t=17m30s

Thats why I stopped supporting SDC. Bit to yeehaaaa on the real propellerhead stuff for my liking. This thing is potentially a timebomb. Plus not in the spirit of trusted financial sovereignty. Unlike XMR

That says nothing. Majority of CEO's don't know the details of their products. That's why they hire people. You think a bank manager knows how the encryption in the banking system works ?

[Hueristic]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.  Without the ability to audit the blockchain we cant know if they created a gazillion coins or just 21 million.  The technology behind Zcash whereby making the entire blockchain a black hole is great for anonymity but not so great if we cant trust how many coins are in this black hole.

I don't even think that this is the major problem. It is likely that one or more computers of them is infected. It is just to easy for professional hackers. And this not a kind of conspiracy theory. It's a honey pot for any hacker to get these data for a money printing maschine.

Exactly.  We have to trust the setup, and if this was how it was done, then that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it.

I'm sure that the trusted setup is all right. They did a lot to ensure it's security and also something one could call "decentralized honesty". Peter Todd was involved for example etc.

But: As far as I know it won't even be visible on the blockchain how many Coins exist at a certain point of time. It doesn't need a compromised setup but "just" a bug like it happened to Bitcoin in 2010 (*) while nobody would know about it - just the market.


At the same time: Because of this ridiculous hype I rented some hash-power at bnkofthefuture - so I hope it will be all right and people will buy this. Futures are trading at 1.5 Bitcoin right now: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

What is an interesting question: Futures are nothing reliable, but if we think about the market-situation: There will be nearly no supply for days and weeks. After about 2 weeks just 20k Coins will exist while the first 3 days not even 1000 ZEC will be out there. Day 1: just about 100 ZEC.  I believe it's possible that some really will buy to prices like that or at least really high.



* On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or "blockchain" which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins.[16][17] On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol.[18][19] This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.[16][17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Todd specifically Tweeted not to use his participation as endorsement!!!
 

All he did was follow instructions he was given, just like a member of an audience at a magic show.

Total amount of ZCash will be ?

21 million like Bitcoin

Yeh, simple question, simple answer

L00L, not a simple question at all.

[weryo]

 

Live stream of the launch of the Zcash crypto-currency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8QA6Nvg8RI&feature=player_embedded

[N-rG]

What is an interesting question: Futures are nothing reliable, but if we think about the market-situation: There will be nearly no supply for days and weeks. After about 2 weeks just 20k Coins will exist while the first 3 days not even 1000 ZEC will be out there. Day 1: just about 100 ZEC.  I believe it's possible that some really will buy to prices like that or at least really high.

It will be like that. The buyers will be simply investors/team-Members of zcash. Hype the hype. It is so obvious. But reading some replies at btctalk and in some other boards i already see a fanbase who want to get screwed
 
And some are ofc some miners taking advance of that situation and support the hype 

[tempus]

If its true that the trusted setup was done behind closed doors and with only 6 people involved then it surely cant be trusted.  Can anyone confirm how the setup was done?

Why wouldn't they use hundreds or even thousands of people generating shards of the golden key and have them all doing it in different ways to just about guarantee that there was no funny business in the setup.  Without the ability to audit the blockchain we cant know if they created a gazillion coins or just 21 million.  The technology behind Zcash whereby making the entire blockchain a black hole is great for anonymity but not so great if we cant trust how many coins are in this black hole.

I don't even think that this is the major problem. It is likely that one or more computers of them is infected. It is just to easy for professional hackers. And this not a kind of conspiracy theory. It's a honey pot for any hacker to get these data for a money printing maschine.

Exactly.  We have to trust the setup, and if this was how it was done, then that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it.

I'm sure that the trusted setup is all right. They did a lot to ensure it's security and also something one could call "decentralized honesty". Peter Todd was involved for example etc.

But: As far as I know it won't even be visible on the blockchain how many Coins exist at a certain point of time. It doesn't need a compromised setup but "just" a bug like it happened to Bitcoin in 2010 (*) while nobody would know about it - just the market.


At the same time: Because of this ridiculous hype I rented some hash-power at bnkofthefuture - so I hope it will be all right and people will buy this. Futures are trading at 1.5 Bitcoin right now: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ZECZ16

What is an interesting question: Futures are nothing reliable, but if we think about the market-situation: There will be nearly no supply for days and weeks. After about 2 weeks just 20k Coins will exist while the first 3 days not even 1000 ZEC will be out there. Day 1: just about 100 ZEC.  I believe it's possible that some really will buy to prices like that or at least really high.



* On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or "blockchain" which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins.[16][17] On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol.[18][19] This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.[16][17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Todd specifically Tweeted not to use his participation as endorsement!!!    

I did not take it that way and I didn't represent it that way. Exactly because he is NOT a Zcash-fan it can be nearly excluded that he would be part of some kind of conspiracy.
 

 
 

[tempus]

What is an interesting question: Futures are nothing reliable, but if we think about the market-situation: There will be nearly no supply for days and weeks. After about 2 weeks just 20k Coins will exist while the first 3 days not even 1000 ZEC will be out there. Day 1: just about 100 ZEC.  I believe it's possible that some really will buy to prices like that or at least really high.

It will be like that. The buyers will be simply investors/team-Members of zcash. Hype the hype. It is so obvious. But reading some replies at btctalk and in some other boards i already see a fanbase who want to get screwed
 
And some are ofc some miners taking advance of that situation and support the hype 

I also thought about that possibility. That those, who are interested in establishing a high price, could buy at high prices for some time. And I would say mining-farms would have the most interest to do that, not necessarily the Zcash-team.

But either way: There is so much hype, this gets so much attention, I really believe that there will be some guys who will buy Zcash at ridiculous high prices. Most likely the first "supply" on the exchanges will be about 0.00x Zec... and so on. And thousands waiting and asking themselves if this will be the next big thing etc.

I really have no idea what Zcash will be. But at least it's not boring!

By the way: It just launched.

[N-rG]

I did not take it that way and I didn't represent it that way. Exactly because he is NOT a Zcash-fan it can be nearly excluded that he would be part of some kind of conspiracy.
 

No need to be a fan. Some $ will handle everything. And if not, there are still hackers who could infect the process.

[weryo]

New blog post:
https://z.cash/blog/zcash-begins.html

[tempus]

I did not take it that way and I didn't represent it that way. Exactly because he is NOT a Zcash-fan it can be nearly excluded that he would be part of some kind of conspiracy.
 

No need to be a fan. Some $ will handle everything. And if not, there are still hackers who could infect the process.

I absolutely agree that there are risks. I don't like the idea of a trusted setup at all. But I believe that they've done everything possible to reduce that risk and I don't believe that there is something like an internal risk. With other words: It's not the number 1 - risk in my opinion. I believe the highest risk is about usual bugs with potentially huge impact but without being even visible in a design that even covers the total supply.