[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[Chevas Regal]

OP buying new accounts , and even changed his Profile picture , is LISK over?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1653624.msg16612565#msg16612565

[Poly#Crypto]

OP buying new accounts , and even changed his Profile picture , is LISK over?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1653624.msg16612565#msg16612565

A stupid attempt...  

The original account is LiskHQ, not LiskQH.
Looks like the same as on Twitter with Max Kodrek instead of Max Kordek.

But the good thing is, the official Twitter account of Lisk is now verified by Twitter.
https://twitter.com/LiskHQ

[iudica]

In case that Lisk will have to pay the tax for all ICO donations:

- Would it be 19%?
- 19% of all donations converted into EURO with the value it had on the last ICO day? Or how would this be calculated?

Approx. 35-64% (Income/Corporation Tax, trade tax, maybe VAT)

If the point is to save on taxes, why the hell did your lawyer recommend you to open up a gGmbh in Germany? There are so many difficulties. Just open a company in Dubai in Free zone, you'll get 0% tax on capital gain, thin capitalization, no VAT,no stamp duty , simple pay 2000 AED per year and that's it! And you can do it within 2 weeks, including time to residence visa approval for the manager.

Because such wannabe offshore is not working. You must move at least the business to Dubai. Means, that the (main) staff need to be there too. If the staff stays in Germany, if the CEO works/operates from Germany, it will harm the tax-extemptness of your construct. It can be, that the tax office qualifiy the Dubai company as a "Zwischengesellschaft" and they will be compledly taxed or that the part of work, which is done in Germany, qualify to a "operational site" in Germany and "just" this part will be taxed.

Because of this, I recommend in such cases this gGmbh, even if it took some month longer than expected and there are some risks left, like all the time, if you do something new.

Btw. as the ICO started in Germany, it is not so easy to take the money and go somewhere.

[BigKush]

In case that Lisk will have to pay the tax for all ICO donations:

- Would it be 19%?
- 19% of all donations converted into EURO with the value it had on the last ICO day? Or how would this be calculated?

Approx. 35-64% (Income/Corporation Tax, trade tax, maybe VAT)

If the point is to save on taxes, why the hell did your lawyer recommend you to open up a gGmbh in Germany? There are so many difficulties. Just open a company in Dubai in Free zone, you'll get 0% tax on capital gain, thin capitalization, no VAT,no stamp duty , simple pay 2000 AED per year and that's it! And you can do it within 2 weeks, including time to residence visa approval for the manager.

Because such wannabe offshore is not working. You must move at least the business to Dubai. Means, that the (main) staff need to be there too. If the staff stays in Germany, if the CEO works/operates from Germany, it will harm the tax-extemptness of your construct. It can be, that the tax office qualifiy the Dubai company as a "Zwischengesellschaft" and they will be compledly taxed or that the part of work, which is done in Germany, qualify to a "operational site" in Germany and "just" this part will be taxed.

Because of this, I recommend in such cases this gGmbh, even if it took some month longer than expected and there are some risks left, like all the time, if you do something new.

Btw. as the ICO started in Germany, it is not so easy to take the money and go somewhere.

Lol, not quite agree with your statement.
1)
"Btw. as the ICO started in Germany, it is not so easy to take the money and go somewhere."  - It's crypto. you can transfer it whenever you want. andy offshore, and they will never ask any question if you fill KYC profile.
2)  It's not mandatory for Max to sit in Dubai office. You can appoint nominee director which will rule the company with strict limit from it's shareholder (Max & Co). Who the hell will qualify it's office as Zwischengesellschaft", if the company will be settled in the Free economy zone, will do it's business outside of Dubai, and International law will apply, in particully, competition law and law of incorporation.    

[punkrock]

In case that Lisk will have to pay the tax for all ICO donations:

- Would it be 19%?
- 19% of all donations converted into EURO with the value it had on the last ICO day? Or how would this be calculated?

Approx. 35-64% (Income/Corporation Tax, trade tax, maybe VAT)

-snip-

Holy cow. A good argument to do everything to get the gGmbH approved. Even if it takes some more time. Maybe you should contact Uli Hoeneß to get some tips and learn from his mistakes.

[starmman]

OP buying new accounts , and even changed his Profile picture , is LISK over?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1653624.msg16612565#msg16612565

Haha, that actually made me laugh out loud. I'm sure a few people got worried by LiskQH though...

[iudica]

@bigKush

1. How can the ability to transfer money qualify or not qualify, if it has to be taxed or not? If it would be so easy, I would just settle up a company in Dubai, Delaware or so, pay someone a salary there and ask all my clients to pay me offshore.

You are normally taxed, where you are working or where your income appeared and not, where you transfer the money later.

2. It is mandatory, that the business decisions are made in Dubai etc. How it makes ("nominee director" or current CEO) doesn't matter. But some straw man director doesn't work and the shareholders are also not allowed to be representative, because otherwise you would have a operational site in Germany again.

3. If - as you tell - you settle in Dubai and you are doing business outside of Dubai, how you can proof, that it is not in Germany. Which you need to proof in this case and which make everything much more worse.

3. For further discussion please check § 50d EStG, AStG and the DBAs between Germany and V.A.E. before.

[SkankHunt42]

lisk ded?

[souljah1h]

lisk ded?

Why would you think that?

[Poly#Crypto]

lisk ded?

Lisk has two dads, Max and Oliver. It's a modern family with a large community. 

[PGPpfKkx]

So I am out. I even was going to be a delegate etc. Let's recap things.

Here are some points:

1) Lisk is a javascript coin. I am a javascript developer. I like javascript but it is not meant for very big codebases in the backend.
The javascript that is on the github repo is old. it doesn't use promises or the es6 syntax. it's like a legacy codebase.
2)Having a limited number of delegates cannot scale for very obvious reasons. Vertical scalability is not good for decentralization purposes.
3)Lisk hasn't got a whitepaper

State of affairs:

1) Lisk has no meaningful development for the last months
2) Lisk promised delegates from the beggining of its launch which still isn't the case
3) Lisk made a very bad launch that couldn't even get the client going , they had the wrong tests in place
4) Lisk has failed to hire any developer for months.
5) Lisk has failed to make a company, you could do that in Estonia in one day and many other countries. Yes legal issues but they could/should get resolved.

All in all, Lisk got MILLIONS in funding and had done NOTHING. What makes you think things will change? And why does it matter if things change? Progress will be super slow.

In my personal opinion, it's either that the Lisk team is incompetent or they will slowly transform into a scam/failed project (deliberately).

And yes, I first sold my coins at a loss after months and then wrote this message. Good luck to the other poor investors.

[honolulumark]

So I am out. I even was going to be a delegate etc. Let's recap things.

Here are some points:

1) Lisk is a javascript coin. I am a javascript developer. I like javascript but it is not meant for very big codebases in the backend.
The javascript that is on the github repo is old. it doesn't use promises or the es6 syntax. it's like a legacy codebase.
2)Having a limited number of delegates cannot scale for very obvious reasons. Vertical scalability is not good for decentralization purposes.
3)Lisk hasn't got a whitepaper

State of affairs:

1) Lisk has no meaningful development for the last months
2) Lisk promised delegates from the beggining of its launch which still isn't the case
3) Lisk made a very bad launch that couldn't even get the client going , they had the wrong tests in place
4) Lisk has failed to hire any developer for months.
5) Lisk has failed to make a company, you could do that in Estonia in one day and many other countries. Yes legal issues but they could/should get resolved.

All in all, Lisk got MILLIONS in funding and had done NOTHING. What makes you think things will change? And why does it matter if things change? Progress will be super slow.

In my personal opinion, it's either that the Lisk team is incompetent or they will slowly transform into a scam/failed project (deliberately).

And yes, I first sold my coins at a loss after months and then wrote this message. Good luck to the other poor investors.

yeah, things would be way different if they had something working, like being able to spit out a js script and just have it work, but I agree with everything you said pretty much.
And I got out a long time ago. Who knows, maybe some devs can take it and make it functioning.
I think the biggest mistake was trusting a one dev team that didn't even write the code( crypti ) the project was cloned from.

[Blazin888888]

Look when a "company's" only news is details of its hiring process and details of the decor and color of its offices you know you are in a world of shit. 

[tuvok007]

So I am out. I even was going to be a delegate etc. Let's recap things.

Here are some points:

1) Lisk is a javascript coin. I am a javascript developer. I like javascript but it is not meant for very big codebases in the backend.
The javascript that is on the github repo is old. it doesn't use promises or the es6 syntax. it's like a legacy codebase.
2)Having a limited number of delegates cannot scale for very obvious reasons. Vertical scalability is not good for decentralization purposes.
3)Lisk hasn't got a whitepaper

State of affairs:

1) Lisk has no meaningful development for the last months
2) Lisk promised delegates from the beggining of its launch which still isn't the case
3) Lisk made a very bad launch that couldn't even get the client going , they had the wrong tests in place
4) Lisk has failed to hire any developer for months.
5) Lisk has failed to make a company, you could do that in Estonia in one day and many other countries. Yes legal issues but they could/should get resolved.

All in all, Lisk got MILLIONS in funding and had done NOTHING. What makes you think things will change? And why does it matter if things change? Progress will be super slow.

In my personal opinion, it's either that the Lisk team is incompetent or they will slowly transform into a scam/failed project (deliberately).

And yes, I first sold my coins at a loss after months and then wrote this message. Good luck to the other poor investors.

But Dude,you will be kicking yourself really hard because now is the time when whales are squeezing to the max all the weak investors,pump will happen in the future.

[Mariuszeq]

[...]
yeah, things would be way different if they had something working, like being able to spit out a js script and just have it work, but I agree with everything you said pretty much.
And I got out a long time ago. Who knows, maybe some devs can take it and make it functioning.
I think the biggest mistake was trusting a one dev team that didn't even write the code( crypti ) the project was cloned from.

There is one fork already, looks promising:
[ANN][SHIFT] Decentralize the web

[fezington]

So I am out. I even was going to be a delegate etc. Let's recap things.

Here are some points:

1) Lisk is a javascript coin. I am a javascript developer. I like javascript but it is not meant for very big codebases in the backend.
The javascript that is on the github repo is old. it doesn't use promises or the es6 syntax. it's like a legacy codebase.
2)Having a limited number of delegates cannot scale for very obvious reasons. Vertical scalability is not good for decentralization purposes.
3)Lisk hasn't got a whitepaper

State of affairs:

1) Lisk has no meaningful development for the last months
2) Lisk promised delegates from the beggining of its launch which still isn't the case
3) Lisk made a very bad launch that couldn't even get the client going , they had the wrong tests in place
4) Lisk has failed to hire any developer for months.
5) Lisk has failed to make a company, you could do that in Estonia in one day and many other countries. Yes legal issues but they could/should get resolved.

All in all, Lisk got MILLIONS in funding and had done NOTHING. What makes you think things will change? And why does it matter if things change? Progress will be super slow.

In my personal opinion, it's either that the Lisk team is incompetent or they will slowly transform into a scam/failed project (deliberately).

And yes, I first sold my coins at a loss after months and then wrote this message. Good luck to the other poor investors.

But Dude,you will be kicking yourself really hard because now is the time when whales are squeezing to the max all the weak investors,pump will happen in the future.

I agree with some points but overall I think it's too early to say that this is a failed project. What makes me scratch my head is: What would happen after the successful gGmbH formation? Sure, devs would have full access to their funds and could hire more devs. The news would lead to a nice pump (and subsequent dump by dissatisfied long time bagholders). If no significant news about development/partnerships/dApps follow, we will end up with the same price in the long run. Now, it's not like they had no budget or funds at all until now which makes me think: The slow overall progress (f.e. hiring process,rebranding etc) . Is it really a money or management issue? Why did visiting conferences have a higher priority than setting up an office/hiring devs? How successful were the conference visits really? Did they help to spark any new interest in this project? Maybe potential future partnerships? Why does the CEO publicly talk about losing an interview with a potential employee? Did he and his partner do some research about forming a company or the overall chances/climate of Germany's blockchain industry before ICO? Lisk is still a start up and needs time to grow. But maybe they should think about improving their way of handling things and invest some money in management professionals.     

[honolulumark]

I agree with some points but overall I think it's too early to say that this is a failed project. What makes me scratch my head is: What would happen after the successful gGmbH formation? Sure, devs would have full access to their funds and could hire more devs. The news would lead to a nice pump (and subsequent dump by dissatisfied long time bagholders). If no significant news about development/partnerships/dApps follow, we will end up with the same price in the long run. Now, it's not like they had no budget or funds at all until now which makes me think: The slow overall progress (f.e. hiring process,rebranding etc) . Is it really a money or management issue? Why did visiting conferences have a higher priority than setting up an office/hiring devs? How successful were the conference visits really? Did they help to spark any new interest in this project? Maybe potential future partnerships? Why does the CEO publicly talk about losing an interview with a potential employee? Did he and his partner do some research about forming a company or the overall chances/climate of Germany's blockchain industry before ICO? Lisk is still a start up and needs time to grow. But maybe they should think about improving their way of handling things and invest some money in management professionals.     

Agreed, they are still very unprofessional( CEO uses smileys on his every sentence when he replies for  fucks sake ), to the point of proving to be incompetent.
Making it look like a failing project and taking the money looks as the obvious choice right now.

[Chevas Regal]

lisk is now 29k sat...i thinkthe price has risen a bit from last 2 days...can we ever expect this coin to go like 0.02 btc like ETC , DASH ,MONERO?? in coming 1 year??

[spendawgs]

lisk is now 29k sat...i thinkthe price has risen a bit from last 2 days...can we ever expect this coin to go like 0.02 btc like ETC , DASH ,MONERO?? in coming 1 year??

I believe its possible. I still hold my initial bag, i have bought more in the past few months and I am still buying today

[PGPpfKkx]

lisk is now 29k sat...i thinkthe price has risen a bit from last 2 days...can we ever expect this coin to go like 0.02 btc like ETC , DASH ,MONERO?? in coming 1 year??

the technology between ETH,ETC,DASH,MONERO and LISK is comparing ants to gorillas really.